Steering gearbox

[Crisjr14]

So I did a big boo boo and bent me steering box gear arm picture attached so I finally found one and noticed the rubbers the go between the frame are shot I bought some thick rubber traced the old ones drilled holes put it back together and for some reason the whole steering column moves and the gearbox is loose all the bolts are tight I think can some tell me what is wrong and if and where I can get the original rubbers for my 53 dodge meadowbrook please 

[andyd]

Not sure if the Rubber Isolators used between the steering box and frame and on the outside between the frame and the triangular plate are the same up to 1953 but they certainly are from 1940 to 1948.........the isolators are a thick rubber extrusion but more importantly they have on each triangular piece a molded round area that sits into the frame and has steel washers around each rubber area that strengthen the whole area where the rubber fits........there is also steel tubes that fit thru the frame and act as anti crush tubes so that tightening the bolts from the outside into the steering box doesn't "crush" the frame......I have not seen what a 1953 car has but it wouldn't surprise me if they use a similar arrangement, if not even the same actual parts.........do you have a workshop manual with an exploded view of the steering box and attachment?

.............I just checked my Andy Bernbaums paper catalog and it lists the "Steering Housing To Frame Insulators" for 1940 to 1954, part # S-108, a two piece set for both sides of the frame.......I'd ring bernbaums, 617 244 1118..........these things DO make a difference...........andyd.

[Go Fleiter]

I got beautifully fitting rubber pads from Bernbaum's - some 15 yrs ago.

Fixing the gearbox against the frame is not just pressing the parts together. If I remember well, a small distance is planned, determined by tubings and thickness of the rubber pad.

Greetings from plymouth holidays in Torino!

(I' m unable to post fotos with my holidays equipment)

Go

 

Chris was 3 minutes faster than me,

and my info bases on my P23

Edited September 17, 2022 by Go Fleiter

[Crisjr14]

Thank you both so I did check them out at Andy Bernbaums ordered me set they are the exact ones I have on my 53 now do they come with those so called rings if I remember correctly the ones on the car are pretty fragile and breaking again thank you 

[DJ194950]

If I remember right there are spacer pipes(tubes) to keep from crushing the frame side together when the steer box is mounted and tightened down. If these are missing the frame side rails can flex and allow the steer box to move about when under a load.  are they missing?

 

Just a though as it was some years ago that I worked on my 50 Ply. steering and insulator.  Memory is not what it was along with many body parts!  ? ?

 

DJ

Edited September 17, 2022 by DJ194950

[Sniper]

Found it in my parts manual

 

 

[Sniper]

part numbers

[andyd]

The "rings" that you refer to are I suppose the "ferrules"............as they are what locates against the frame they do tend to "wear" if the rubber insulators break down and allow movement but are important to have as they support the rubber.............am trying to think of anything that could be used as a replacement but can't..................andyd   

[DJ194950]

Sniper-

 

you found the pic in the parts book I could not!

 

Thanks for the confirmation!  I guess my memory is nor totally- gone- -yet!  ?

 

DJ

[Crisjr14]

Thanks everyone for the info and as well for the picture I will call Andy's tomorrow to ask about those "Ferrules" and as for my manual it does not have anything pictured like that in the steering section so a plus on this one sent definitely save it 

[Dan Hiebert]

Despite AB's listing of them, '46-'48 Dodge (at least) steering do not have those rubber insulators between the steering box and frame.  That is a Plymouth thing.  The Dodge's steering is insulated by a different tie rod and steering arm arrangement.  Meaning, don't go solely by AB's listing.  If you suspect your car's steering components to be original, you should have those spacers, ferrules, and plates.  If it does not, someone in the past may have added that box to frame insulation because someone told them to and they didn't know any better.  Of course, I don't know if Dodge changed that after the D24 series, but when I see "Dodge" and those steering box insulators, a warning bell goes off.  I would at least verify via a Dodge shop or parts manual.  

Edited September 19, 2022 by Dan Hiebert
typo

[andyd]

Dan's mention of these rubber insulators being a Plymouth only thing maybe quite correct as here in Oz all Dodge, DeSoto and Chryslers made here were Plymouth based cars using the Plymouth chassis, steering etc.......which I should have clarified.........andyd

[Sniper]

Alright, I dug back into my parts manual, Chrysler shows them on Dodges, as well as the ferrules and spacers.

 

 

[Crisjr14]

Yes thank you all again and if I didn't state it before mine does have them although they are very fragile to the touch and the ones I bought from ABs they look exactly like thoe one I took off it's just that they don't sell those Ferrules just want to see where I could buy them as well to have everything new when I put it back together so if anyone knows where I can purchase them please as ABs does not carry them send info thank you all again 

[Crisjr14]

( OK Update I have posted videos on my YouTube channel since it won't allow me to do it here it is under "Mrdontremebershit" don't laugh ? to better explain my situation on this issue that I am having please any help would be appreciated thank you )

[Sniper]

You misspelled your own username, lol

 

https://www.youtube.com/@MrDontremembershit

[Sniper]

Your steering box is not bolted down tight.  There is no load on it, pitman arm removed, and it's moving. You may also need to go thru teh cloumn and make sure you didn't loose a bearing or bushing in there.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Sniper

[Crisjr14]

Lol thanks sniper I don't really know how to do all that tech stuff lol ? so your saying that I have to tighten the 3 bolts down more and as well put the pitman back on as well as rods and I don't get the "teh column" are you referring to the steering column and what bearings and bushings please I will go thru putting it all back together and tighten them bolts down more 

[Sniper]

The steering column shaft goes from inside the steering box to the steering wheel, it's one, long piece.  Inside the sheet metal cover the shaft runs thru are various bearings and parts that keep the shaft centered.  As well as bearings inside the steering box.  Keith did a video, I believe, when he rebuilt his to give you an idea of what's going on inside those covers

 

 

 

[Sniper]

Part 2

 

 

[Crisjr14]

So update to this issue I finally took out the steering box from the '53 and clearly you can see that the shaft is bent to hell so next question is where can I by the bearing kit and maybe the shaft for it thanks in advance 

[desoto1939]

On 9/19/2022 at 7:17 PM, Sniper said:

Alright, I dug back into my parts manual, Chrysler shows them on Dodges, as well as the ferrules and spacers.

 

 

Sniper:  On the 39 Desoto they had the outer metal plate and the rubber inner and outer gasket.  But the ones that everyone sellers they state that they only start to fir at 1940 and up.  But when I looked in my 36-42 Master Desoto parts manual I discovered that on the Right Hand drive export desoto they used the gasket that is listed for the 1940 Desoto. Very strange. I would think that the right hand and the left hand rubber would be the same but noone can verify and I do not want to be the Guinee pig and purchase a set and then not be able to use them.  I know Steele makes a set so at next years Hershey I am going to ask them to bring a set and then matach it up to a plate that a friend gave me from his 39 Desoto.

 

Rich Hartung

[Conn47D24]

My D24 did not and still does not have the rubber pads or tubes.

 

I too bought the rubber years ago and then upon assembly found they weren't right for my Dodge.

There are moulded "bushings" that should fit in the frame or maybe those feruls. . Mine didn't recess so I gave up..

 

Haven't noticed any steering vibration. 

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Conn47D24
Spell

[andyd]

Rich.......you question whether the right & left hand rubbers are the same......they are not, the overall outside shape is basically the same however as shown in the parts manual pic that Sniper posted the rubber that fits against the steering box is essentially "flat" whereas the outside rubber that fits between the frame and plate is molded with "bumps" that correspond with the area that the bolts fit thru....both rubbers use the metal ferrules to help locate and support the rubber pieces and the metal crush tubes.........

..........also the reference to the RHD export DeSoto using these rubber isolators maybe due to the fact that at least here in Australia the majority of mopars sold here were in fact Plymouth based notwithstanding what brand they were sold as..........

.........my 1940 Oz Dodge sales brochure does in fact show a picture of a US sourced Dodge with the US correct fenders, hood, bumper & headlights but in 53 years of playing with 1940 Dodges I have only ever seen one such car but maybe 20 of the Oz assembled Plymouth based cars which would have all used the rubber pieces..........

............the plot thickens..........lol.............andyd