Maybe Cast Iron rings okay? Ran across this..

[Bryan]

I was looking for different rings than what Sealed Power and Hastings were offering.  Custom rings.    Kept thinking there has to be a modern substitute for cast iron, that seems brittle.  Didn't want chrome rings.  Contacted Total Seal and Precision rings, they don't make them for cars (at least not ours).

 

Was looking at Grover ring site and ran across this.  Cast Iron Piston Ring Suppliers | Grover Corporation   The microstructure and chemistry of GC-211 cast iron offers the ideal material for wear and lubricity in a wide range of bore materials.     Yeah, yeah..cast iron.  I want the better "ductile iron".

   

Then I see this..  Ductile Iron Piston Rings | Grover corporation   Does not have the microstructure matrix of Grover’s piston ring iron GC-211 and will induce higher wear on the bore.     WTH?  

 

Might just quit looking and go with Hastings.  Opinions?   Anybody?

[RobertKB]

For the amount of miles you’ll put on the car, go with what’s easy to get and reasonably priced. With modern oils almost any rings will most likely do 100,000+ miles easily. No need to overthink things. 

[kencombs]

14 minutes ago, RobertKB said:

For the amount of miles you’ll put on the car, go with what’s easy to get and reasonably priced. With modern oils almost any rings will most likely do 100,000+ miles easily. No need to overthink things. 

Amen.

[47 dodge 1.5 ton]

Be very careful when reviewing “cast iron” material. Only basic ASTM requirement is tensile strength from CL25-40. Every foundry has their own recipe for a pour. Hardness is not a requirement on gray iron grades. Ductile has more requirements, is an upgrade in certain applications but again, I have reviewed large ranges in properties as well from different foundries. 

[Los_Control]

2 hours ago, Bryan said:

Kept thinking there has to be a modern substitute for cast iron, that seems brittle.  Didn't want chrome rings.  Contacted Total Seal and Precision rings, they don't make them for cars (at least not ours).

Seems like a honest question, although am curious why you do not want chrome rings?

 

Seems the original rings made way back before my Daddy was born, were made from cast.

They tend to have a short life span ... was very common to replace the rings at a local gas station and considered normal maintenance ... When a vehicle sits for some time, is common for the rings to get stuck to the pistons and no longer seal. While if you run them through a few heat cycles the dissimilar metals will release from the pistons and they can/will seal again.

 

Later on in the 1960's? they came out with the chrome molly rings? They lasted twice as long as the old cast iron rings

 

I have no idea what the rings for a 2020 Dodge Hemi are made out of today, pretty sure they are not cast iron and have progressed beyond chrome molly.

 

Thinking I would rather have at least chrome before cast iron.

[Bryan]

21 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Seems like a honest question, although am curious why you do not want chrome rings?

I have no idea what the rings for a 2020 Dodge Hemi are made out of today, pretty sure they are not cast iron and have progressed beyond chrome molly.

 

Thinking I would rather have at least chrome before cast iron.

From what I'm reading chrome resists wear from dirt abrasion but wears the bore more. Reckon it would be better to have the rings wear faster than the bore.  I don't know why they don't make our rings from modern materials. Only know of NOS, Sealed Power and Hastings rings for ours. They do have chrome but I know I don't want that.  Sealed Power had conflicting info,  one place they said ductile, another cast. I wrote to them and they said their rings weren't ductile.   Was reading cast rings seem to seat faster, are not as sensitive to honing quality, but don't last as long.

[Sniper]

Problem is, ductile iron is a form of cast iron.  When referring to cast iron, what is generally meant is grey iron.  Which is cheap and adequate, but can be brittle. 

 

Ductite iron is less brittle but still a form of cast iron. 

 

the 87 318 I have in my 65 Cuda had over 150k miles on it and I could see the cross hatch on the bores, moly coated ductile top rings and regular oil changes.

[Bryan]

19 minutes ago, Sniper said:

the 87 318 I have in my 65 Cuda had over 150k miles on it and I could see the cross hatch on the bores, moly coated ductile top rings and regular oil changes.

Problem is that I haven't seen moly coated ductile rings for ours yet.  Started writing ring manufacturers. 2 nopes so far.

[Sniper]

Yeah, I've see cast, ductile and chrome listed.

 

That's it.  Not like there is an abundance of demand for or rings.  If you find someone willing to make custom rings I expect thru the nose it how you will pay.

[Bryan]

5 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Yeah, I've see cast, ductile and chrome listed.

 

That's it.  Not like there is an abundance of demand for or rings.  If you find someone willing to make custom rings I expect thru the nose it how you will pay.

Might not be that much for the top ring, which is the most stressed.  The only ductile was from Sealed Power and they said that is wrong.  You know of any other brands?

[Sniper]

I don't recall offhand.  Partly why I said I saw them listed rather than available.

 

All I see for SP is Chrome (E-108KC) and Iron (E-108X) in their catalog. Don't see a ductile option.

 

For hastings, their premium is 2C144

 

Specs here. not bad imo

 

https://apacatalog.com/HastingsCatalog/Home/partdetail/753

[kencombs]

I just used a NOS set that said Dodge on the package.  Really lucky to find a real Mopar part from that era in .040!  And they are cast.

[Bryan]

Yeah but it seems like their chrome rings only come in standard size.   Didn't really want chrome through. Might just have to settle for their cast rings 0.030" over.

 

The Sealed Power listing stating ductile was only on Rock Auto..

[Bryan]

Oh well..reckon  I'll go with the regular stuff. Ordered the 144 Hastings .030 oversize. Last ones.  Total about $70 included shipping.   Reckon if they are gapped properly,  keep the revs below 3600 and don't let the carbon build up I'll be okay.   Crap.. None of the rings on the 48 or 53 block were broke even though they had a lot of carbon. Maybe I just need to calm down.

[Sniper]

I saw that RA listing, if you click on the info button and read the specs is says grey iron, not ductile.  RA sometimes messes things up.

[Los_Control]

Back in the day when I retreaded truck tires, We did not own we leased our equipment  from Bandag. The modern equipment was not for sale.

One day we had their guys out there replacing a brass screw block on a 6' metal screw shaft on a $150k machine.

 

I asked them why not just build a stronger screw block so this does not need to happen?

The obvious reply was, If we build it out of steel, then the $2k shaft would wear out. We build it out of brass so it is the sacrificial piece & the easiest to replace .... Even though it took all day to replace.

 

I wonder if iron rings in a old flathead may be the sacrificial piece in the puzzle & the easiest to replace?

[Bryan]

Well,  that was a no. But already bought Hastings pistons.

 

Hello Bryan,

 

Thank you for your request for quotation.  However, we are unable to quote this item this is not within Grover Piston manufacturing capabilities currently.

Kind Regards,

Diane

 

Was wondering if you could make custom rings for a 1953 Dodge flathead 230 CI motor? 3/32 top compression, 3/32 - second compression. Depth about 0.18". Bore is cast iron with aluminum pistons. Not needing anything like nitride coated rings, just for regular driving. Something like ductile iron or steel with a moly coating. Just wanting something like modern ring materials that fit existing pistons. Hastings and Sealed power only make cast iron or chrome top rings for these engines. Bryan

[Marcel Backs]

The engine rebuilder used Sealed Power parts throughout the 218 in my D 14. Hastings makes equally good parts.  Both are still made in the USA as is the case where critical parts which will insure many years of reliability are typically manufactured.