Small engine repair

[Eneto-55]

My Craftsman power washer has a Tecumseh Enduro overhead valve 6.0 HP engine.  I bought it used, but I have always used the “recreational” gas, and it usually starts with no big issues.  
This Spring I got it out and it started up pretty easily, with just a bit of gas spritzed in the carb.  My wife was washing off the deck and wanted to stop for a bit to move things around.  I gassed it up again, and then it wouldn’t start again.  Not really even try more than just slightly.  I even tried ether, and that wouldn’t help, either.  It’s got spark, gets gas.  What could be the problem?  And even if I had flooded it (which it probably was by the time I got wore out from pulling the cord), several weeks later I took the power washed pump off and tried again.  Still won’t really try.
 

[Ulu]

Well If the spark plug is good and it’s got compression, I think I’d be checking the condenser & points on that engine. I think you have to pull the flywheel get to them.

 

I haven’t worked on a Tecumseh engine since 1979.

 

Basically the most common problem was Sparkplugs, dirt in the fuel system somewhere, followed by burned out condensers and points.

[Sniper]

Pretty sure even small engines no longer use points or condensers anymore.

 

My push mower, B&S engine FWIW, will occasionally do this.

 

The bowl vent is open to air and it will plug up on occasion, I clean it out and it runs.  When this happens I can get it to run by pushing the prime bulb, I have to keep pushing it to keep it running.  Design defect.  I need to plum a line from the vent fitting to the clean side of the air filter to fix this permanently.

 

Maybe a relevant video for you

 

 

[Eneto-55]

9 hours ago, Sniper said:

Pretty sure even small engines no longer use points or condensers anymore.

 

My push mower, B&S engine FWIW, will occasionally do this.

 

The bowl vent is open to air and it will plug up on occasion, I clean it out and it runs.  When this happens I can get it to run by pushing the prime bulb, I have to keep pushing it to keep it running.  Design defect.  I need to plum a line from the vent fitting to the clean side of the air filter to fix this permanently.

 

 

Mine doesn't have the prime bulb on the carb, just the choke lever.  Does that mean it is a really old engine?  (As I said, I bought it used, and that was some years back already.)  Maybe I should just get a Predator replacement engine?

[Sniper]

Replacing the engine is an expensive fix for something that might be a simple repair.

 

No prime bulb probably means it's a newer engine.  My BS mentioned above had an auto choke that didn't work worth a darn.  So I retrofitted the old school bulb prime setup and it no longer has an auto choke.  Works fine, other than the vent issue I mentioned, which will get fixed.  I would do some investigating before I bought a new engine.

 

Biggest issue with these small engines, that I have seen, is that if you store them with gas in them they tend to gum up and the carb passageways plug.  So a good cleaning can restore them, sometimes the plugging up or car design is such that you can't clean them.  Usually I end up having to poke a wire thru the passageways to get the gum out and some carbs have a sharp 90 that keeps you from cleaning out the main jet so it stays plugged.

 

A new carb is pretty cheap in my experience and running the engine dry before you store it fixes the gumming up.  I use whatever gas is handy but the key is to run the engine dry before you put it away. 

[Ulu]

If it won’t start on ether, plug is good and it had spark, the spark is weak or spark timing is off. If it’s electronic, the sensor has possibly shook loose & moved or just failed.

 

If it was just a plugged up carburetor you could start it by squirting ether or gas right in the carb. 

 

This seems to be electric.

 

Sniper is right, that one tiny speck of dirt in the carburetor can stop the whole thing, and if you did flood it indeed, then maybe the spark is not at fault at all. But after it sat for a week you should be able to squirt gas in it and make it pop.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Put a new plug in it.

[greg g]

Have a similar engine on my snowblower.  It 25 plus years old.  Mine would start fine but after it got up to temp it would stall under load then be difficult to restart.  A new plug didn't help so I did a compression test.  Cold compression using the electric start was 70 psi, when hot it went down to 45.  Adding oil to the cylinder didn't effect the reading.  I pulled it down and found the exhaust valve wasn't closing completely.  Apparently the valve seat had eroded.  Removed the valve, ground some metal off to shorten the valve stem so the valve would seat,  used a bit of lapping material to redo the sealing surfaces and hey presto it workes as intended again.

[Los_Control]

Gasoline engines ... just as many issues can be possible as we have words in the dictionary.

 

I have a new pressure washer bought this spring, means it is cheap off shore junk.

Used it a few weeks ago and worked fine. The other day I could not get it to start ... I tried ether and nothing so I assumed it was spark.

I pulled the plug and it was soaking wet ... pulled the rope a few times and liquid squirted out of the plug hole.

I checked the oil and oil just came overflowing out of the dip stick tube.

 

I did not shut off the fuel on the gravity feed tank when I put it away, I assume the float on the carb got stuck and filled the engine with gasoline.

In fairness, I have a fuel shut off on my John Deere riding mower .... I have never shut it off & never a carb issue. So I did not bother on the pressure washer.

Now I do shut it off.

 

I doubt this is your issue but you did mention it has spark and you just filled the fuel ... at least check the oil & the plug.

[Eneto-55]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

Gasoline engines ... just as many issues can be possible as we have words in the dictionary.

 

I have a new pressure washer bought this spring, means it is cheap off shore junk.

Used it a few weeks ago and worked fine. The other day I could not get it to start ... I tried ether and nothing so I assumed it was spark.

I pulled the plug and it was soaking wet ... pulled the rope a few times and liquid squirted out of the plug hole.

I checked the oil and oil just came overflowing out of the dip stick tube.

 

I did not shut off the fuel on the gravity feed tank when I put it away, I assume the float on the carb got stuck and filled the engine with gasoline.

In fairness, I have a fuel shut off on my John Deere riding mower .... I have never shut it off & never a carb issue. So I did not bother on the pressure washer.

Now I do shut it off.

 

I doubt this is your issue but you did mention it has spark and you just filled the fuel ... at least check the oil & the plug.

I did have the problem with it in the past of not starting easily if it was hot, and I had run it clear out of gas.  That's the reason I filled it up right away when my wife had it shut down - 'cause I didn't want it run out of gas.  

The oil is not overfull, but it does need to be changed - rather black.  Neither the tank nor the carb on mine has a shut off.  I had to drain the tank before I pulled the fuel line off of the carb.  I WAS kinda' wondering about the valves, if one was stuck.  I should try to check the compression, but need to look up someplace what it should be.  (I found a manual on-line this morning, but I had to get off to work, so didn't look at it too much yet.  (Just home for lunch now.)

[Los_Control]

Just now, Eneto-55 said:

I WAS kinda' wondering about the valves, if one was stuck.  I should try to check the compression, but need to look up someplace what it should be. 

I am going to take a stab at compression ... Just like a flathead 6 or any gasoline engine, you kinda need 60 psi for it to run? I am guessing a small engine is pretty close to the same.

 

There is a difference on small engines, some have a compression release built in to ease starting.  While others do not.

My quick research just to get a idea ... A older 1981 horizontal shaft 5 hp flathead briggs & stratton has a compression release built in and a 60 psi compression test is good.

 

While a newer 5 hp vertical shaft lawn mower with no compression release shows 80 psi from the factory specs ... and claim you can drop 20% and still have power to cut grass normally.?

 

Thinking what you really need to figure out, does your engine have a compression release?

 

The other thing about the valves ... You "say it is a older unit" Whats old to you? My Riding mower is a 1994 and 27 years old. It has over head valves.

Does your engine have overhead valves or is it a flathead?  

The OHV is a decent design, but a little chincy on heft. Something that needs to be regularly maintained depending on hours you put on it.

The adjustment will loosen up with time and eventually not open the valve enough, or drop a spacer as it gets too loose. Now the valve will not even move.

Is a important step on OHV that we never worried about on a flathead.

That could be your problem. I am in the middle of the 2nd mowing season on my valve adjustment ... working fine .... this winter will go through adjustment again before 3rd season. Not something you have to do weekly, just something to be aware of.

 

The Tecumseh is a solid motor. As far as I have heard. You can go to Harbor freight and buy a replacement off shore engine.

30 years ago I had a Briggs & Stratton 5 hp gas powered air compressor ... I was 24 years old I bought it cheap and eventually ran out of compression and not start. I bought a book, a set of rings & gaskets. With less then $50 invested in it replaced the rings and used it for over a year and sold it for $200 later... was still running great.

[Ulu]

I had a B&S that eroded aluminum away behind the hardened valve seat. The seat popped loose and was just hanging on the valve stem.

Being a 2-cyl, it still actually ran, but it made some dreadful noises.

 

All the Tecumsehs I worked on were 8, 10 & 12 hp singles on rental yard tillers and mixers. No recoil. Just a pull rope with a knot.

They burned up one by one as the carbs shook loose and they went lean under a load.

Used to melt the piston thru the crown and then Poof!

 

Zero compression, but an engine half seized, that gave the impression it had compression.

 

They all got replaced with Honda engines, one by one. Imagine a 50 year old Howard Hoe with crusty iron gearbox, and a shiny red and white Honda on top.

[Eneto-55]

5 hours ago, Los_Control said:

I am going to take a stab at compression ... Just like a flathead 6 or any gasoline engine, you kinda need 60 psi for it to run? I am guessing a small engine is pretty close to the same.

 

There is a difference on small engines, some have a compression release built in to ease starting.  While others do not.

My quick research just to get a idea ... A older 1981 horizontal shaft 5 hp flathead briggs & stratton has a compression release built in and a 60 psi compression test is good.

 

While a newer 5 hp vertical shaft lawn mower with no compression release shows 80 psi from the factory specs ... and claim you can drop 20% and still have power to cut grass normally.?

 

Thinking what you really need to figure out, does your engine have a compression release?

 

The other thing about the valves ... You "say it is a older unit" Whats old to you? My Riding mower is a 1994 and 27 years old. It has over head valves.

Does your engine have overhead valves or is it a flathead?  

The OHV is a decent design, but a little chincy on heft. Something that needs to be regularly maintained depending on hours you put on it.

The adjustment will loosen up with time and eventually not open the valve enough, or drop a spacer as it gets too loose. Now the valve will not even move.

Is a important step on OHV that we never worried about on a flathead.

That could be your problem. I am in the middle of the 2nd mowing season on my valve adjustment ... working fine .... this winter will go through adjustment again before 3rd season. Not something you have to do weekly, just something to be aware of.

 

The Tecumseh is a solid motor. As far as I have heard. You can go to Harbor freight and buy a replacement off shore engine.

30 years ago I had a Briggs & Stratton 5 hp gas powered air compressor ... I was 24 years old I bought it cheap and eventually ran out of compression and not start. I bought a book, a set of rings & gaskets. With less then $50 invested in it replaced the rings and used it for over a year and sold it for $200 later... was still running great.

It's an OHV engine.

I need to take the cover off to see if there is a number or date code there.  This morning I was doing some searching, and found a basic maintenance guide that tells where the numbers are located, and how to decipher them.  But now I see that it is specifically for the 2004 and newer.  I do not know how old it is.  I bought it for $60.00 on an auction in April of 2014.  It had a burned out pump (power washer) on it, but came with a new one still in the box.  I mounted it (and bought a wand & hose set, which didn't come with it) and have been pretty picky with how people use it, like always having the water running through the pump any time the engine is running.  (Maybe to the point of being a bit obnoxious about it.)

But as to age, I figure that the ones with the bulb primer on the carb are newer, right?  This one doesn't have that, just a manual choke lever.  Maybe it wasn't that old, as I think the auction included some stuff from a builder going out of business, and from what I've seen working for several different builders over the years, that equipment gets used pretty hard.  All you need is one guy who doesn't know one end of the hose from the other, and the pump wouldn't last long, so they just dump the whole deal.  

So I guess I'm supposed to think I got my money's worth out of it, but like you said, the old flat heads just go on forever.  I guess I'm old enough to still think that the recoil start is a new thing.... 

I'm sure there's a real reason why the Predator engines are around half of what a Honda would cost, but what do you all think of them?  I hear that a lot of guys run them on their racer go carts, and w/o the governor.  It's a bit like when I bought a Craftsman chainsaw - people told me that it won't last like a Stihl. I reckon not, but I don't use it enough to need to pay what amounts to two Craftsmans.  Thing is, I have an almost unused Honda 6.5 HP on a small generator I bought on an auction of stuff from an elderly couple in our congregation, but it's got the tapped crank shaft, and this pump needs the keyed shaft.  Otherwise I was just going to swap the stuff back & forth as needed.  (We just have the generator in case of power outage.  We went 4 days w/o power after an ice storm back in 2005, and my wife doesn't like the idea of doing that again.  Plus, we no longer have a wood stove in the house.)

Oh, I also have a good vertical shaft 6.75 HP Briggs& Stratton from a lawn mower a renter abandoned, but I think it's also the tapped shaft.  (I don't know if you can call it an OHV, since it laying on its side, but it's not a flat head.)

I appreciate all of the input.  Thank much.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Eneto-55

[Tooljunkie]

When i check plugs now, i bump the ground electrode on my workbench. If you inspect plugs like i have seen in every single picture for my entire life, you are doing it wrong. Electrode down and a light bump on a bench or something solid. If the center electrode is loose it will close gap and short out. 
 

then remove plug and hold it up. Yup,gap is open as electrode has fallen back into place. A freaking nightmare if you dont look for it. 
30 years as a mechanic, never saw one, until 3 years ago. Saw 3 on 3 different occasions. Champion spark plugs are no longer something i will install. 

[Los_Control]

I wonder what cost more ... replacing the engine or replacing the pump?

Just figure out why your engine stopped running.

I suspect with minor effort even if the valves need adjusted ... will be running in a few minutes.

 

[Eneto-55]

5 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

I wonder what cost more ... replacing the engine or replacing the pump?

Just figure out why your engine stopped running.

I suspect with minor effort even if the valves need adjusted ... will be running in a few minutes.

 

I figure the pump is still pretty much like new, since it has not seen heavy use, and like I said, I'm a stickler for keeping water going through it any time the engine is running.  I don't know how much the pumps run.  I think I looked it up when I got the thing, because I had some paperwork that came with the pump, or else I found something on-line.

I have worked on the old flat-head one lungers, but never an OHV.  I haven't found a manual that explains how to adjust the valves on one of these.  So I just pull off the valve cover, and figure it will be self explanatory?

 

The power washer was built by Sears & Roebuck - Craftsman, and their label is on the engine.  

 

Engine Model  143,996005

Engine Family  WTPXS,1951AB

Displacement  195

 

It also says that it meets the California requirements for 1995-1999.  Does that mean it was manufactured during that year range?

 

I haven't had a lot of time to spend on this, as I've been too busy in my job.  My wife always just says to take it some place & have them work on it, but a person might spend a wad and still not have it working right.

[Los_Control]

This is my first pressure washer. I wanted one for awhile and looked for used. Seems they all needed a new pump. Been abused ... Or if they worked & they were asking for as much as a new unit. So I just bought a new one. I think they sell enough pumps that they are reasonable in price.

 

I also am anal about having water connected to it. I wont even check for spark without the water running through it. I just lay the wand on the ground out of the way and have a spring clamp on the trigger to flow the water.

I know the engine will not start .... feel it is a good habit to get into. Anytime the motor turns over it has water flowing.

The water is the lubrication for the rubber pieces in the pump. Turning it over dry you may not kill it .... possible you will lose a few hours of service life from the wear.

 

Would you drain the engine oil from your car ... then turn the engine over to check for spark? May not kill it but not doing it any favors. Possible will lose a few hours of service life from turning it over without proper lubrication.

Just my feelings on it, may be anal or just taking care of what you have and keeping full performance from the machine.

 

Adjusting the valves is pretty simple. Just like a car engine. A lock nut and adjust the shaft ... make sure the valve is closed then set the clearance.

Can probably study the head and determine which valve is working the intake/exhaust. You really just need the spec to adjust them to.

 

On one video I watched "mustie1" He was repairing a riding mower with no compression. The valve adjustment was very loose. and the adjusters had a piece of machined hardened steel for the push rod to ride on. So the rest of the valve train was made of mild steel ... cheaper to make.

When the adjustment got loose enough, the hardened steel piece fell off, the push rod no longer made contact.

Not saying all engines are like this, just something to be aware of if you see something strange. And why I think it important to spend a few min to inspect once in awhile.

 

The rubber plunger on the carburetor is more like a model and manufacturer difference then a age difference.

I had a 1952 Triumph motorcycle that had a metal plunger on it and sure the older 40's motorcycles had them not sure when it originally came out.

And my new weed eater I bought 2 months ago has a plunger on it. The plunger has been around in one form or another forever.

Then my 2 riding mowers  and my pressure washer have choke only on them.  Pressure washer also new this year.

 

What your wife says makes a lot of sense sometimes.

One shop visit you could have as much as the price of a new machine invested in it ... I paid $350 for mine. You are not wrong either.

I actually like the learning experience. They are very simple machines to work on. You can learn much from them.  Like working on our old cars  for many like myself is relaxing and not stressful.

You could just replace the engine and get on with your day.  Or diagnose the problem and make a educated decision ... know why you are better off replacing the engine.

 

[Los_Control]

I only wanted to add, I am no small engine mechanic .... just have a lifetime of experience with them. And I watch videos.

I can usually keep the old junk running.

The difference though is our life styles. I was disabled 10 years ago when I was 48 years old. Now 58.

I was building houses and doing finish carpentry work, employer was charging the customer $65 per hour for me to be there ... I ran a 3 man crew ... I had no time to work on lawnmower engines.

 

Most working people really do not have time to mess with small engines. Not a bad thing ... just something you need to juggle your time with.

I can see you easily making more money working your job and not messing with small engines. Simply a choice we make in life.

 

@Eneto-55 Just saying life has more then one path, up to you to decide what path to travel.

Here is a photo of a current project. I want to say it looks stupid, but am learning from it to fabricate sheet metal. It works perfect without a hood.

The goal is to create a hood with lights like the old doodle bugs of the 1940's.  Just trying to learn & fabricate like our Grandfathers did.

I enjoy the learning.

 

@Eneto-55 You could easily make money working and replace the pressure washer many times over.

You have to wonder if you want to fix it, or just make life easy and replace it. Or you have time to learn from it.

 

We have a local small engine repair shop here in town. The city brought in a commercial zero turn mower for repair.

The shop owner quoted $1700 for replacement of the rear end.

The city decided to buy a new machine and sold old machine to my neighbor for $50. He added fluid and used it for 2 more years til he died.

 

The shop could have done the same. They were more interested in going in for the kill and make some serious money not check the fluids.

 

You just need to be careful who you take your stuff to.  A old retired fart like me can be good, while some shops can be bad.

 

 

[Eneto-55]

I'm 65 myself, will be full retirement age early next January.  My wife is 3 1/2 years older than I, so she's getting close to 70, and wants me to sell my business.  It's not a big business, and has become less profitable in recent years.  I lost my job in a farm equipment steel shop in March of 2007 (due to a work-related injury), and after looking for work the rest of that year (working two part-time jobs), I finally just made a job for myself.  (It's still just a one-man operation.)  I could have made more, I suppose, if I would have charged more for my work, but I grew up on the poor side, then went to college to prepare to be a missionary, and lived in Brazil doing that for 18 years.  We were supported by donations through several interested congregations, friends, and relatives, and got by with a pretty simple lifestyle.  And so I had no marketable skill when we moved back to the States.  Not having a real business background, I was always very subconscious about charging a high service rate.

 

Is that mower going to be a racing mower?  I saw a bunch of them in a parade in the town where my daughter & son-in-law were living until a couple of years ago (Danville, Ohio).  Have you ever seen the deal about CycleKarts?  (They build 'adult go-carts' with bodies fashioned after the pre-war race cars, powered by 6.5 HP one lunger gas engines.  Looks like a lot of fun to me.  I started gathering parts, but they specify 17" Honda 90 wheels & tires, and they are pretty scarce, and too expensive for me.  I also prefer the looks of the old solid wheels, and have watched videos about "spin-forming", but I also don't have a metal lathe, let alone one big enough to do that sort of thing.)

 

I worked in construction back home in Oklahoma, also in Texas, and then worked for my father-in-law before we moved to Brazil.  He was a general contractor.  The last big building they put up was 7 acres under roof.  He passed away last August, with complications of Covid, at 99.  So now I tend to do most remodeling jobs here at home, and we're in the process of buying my wife's dad's house, so will have a lot of work on both houses, getting that one ready to move in, and this one ready to sell.  PLUS, I REALLY need to finish rebuilding my 46 Plymouth, which I started on in 1980.  Have to do it soon so I can enjoy it a bit, before I get senile like someone we hear a lot about.

[Ulu]

Judging by your writing skills, you aren’t joining that club any time soon.

[Los_Control]

43 minutes ago, Eneto-55 said:

s that mower going to be a racing mower? 

Sorry there is confusion. I use that mower to cut my grass ... there is no other purpose for it from me.

So while I build a tilt front end on it to keep the weather off of it ... I also built a garage for it and no weather gets on it.

No I am not building something special .... just cutting the grass.

[Eneto-55]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

Sorry there is confusion. I use that mower to cut my grass ... there is no other purpose for it from me.

So while I build a tilt front end on it to keep the weather off of it ... I also built a garage for it and no weather gets on it.

No I am not building something special .... just cutting the grass.

There really wasn't any confusion - I just thought that perhaps with a custom hood it might have a dual purpose.  I had a diesel mower down in Brazil that I used to cut the grass on the airstrip in the village, and I built a tractor roof for it, sort of like what the old steam tractors had on them.  But the engine noise reflected off of it so much I couldn't stand it, and took it back off.  (The main purpose for it was to get some relief from the hot tropical sun, but also for when I might have to cut grass in the rain.)

[Eneto-55]

9 hours ago, Ulu said:

Judging by your writing skills, you aren’t joining that club any time soon.

Thank you for the compliment, but often as I'm writing, when I get to the place where a certain word should go, I can't think of it.  Sometimes I use a dictionary, or just sit there trying to remember what word I wanted to use, and if I cannot pull it up I just rephrase the sentence or use a different word.  It bothers me most when I'm talking with someone, and think of someone I want to mention, and when I start out I know the person's name, but when I get to the place where I need to plug the name into the sentence, I cannot remember it.  People I have known for years.  It also happens when I meet someone I know very well, but suddenly cannot remember their name.

A couple of weeks ago I was replacing the brake pads on my work car (2010 Dodge Caravan), and I had forgotten that the pad slide clips are pairs, not all the same.  I was working on the first side, and had just grabbed 4 of them out of the bag and put them in.  Some I had in the wrong place, and some were backwards.  Needless to say I really struggled to get the pads into place, and then when I'd finally forced them in, I couldn't slide the caliper back over the disks, because the part of the clips where the spring part sticks out was hitting the disk.  So then I looked closely at the remaining new clips, and realized what I'd done.  I wouldn't say that I ever "remembered" that they are matched pairs - I just figured it out again.

[Los_Control]

10 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

There really wasn't any confusion - I just thought that perhaps with a custom hood it might have a dual purpose.

You are correct really .... Main reason was it did live outside. After a good rain when I would start it a day later, and the electronic ignition would be wet and run like crap for some time until it dries out.  I finally got my garden shed built this spring so now it has a place under cover to park.

I still use it to pull a trailer with for yard work and hauling brush to the dumpster. I could get caught a a summer downpour, then be dead in the water til it dried out.

Just will be more dependable with a hood. Then it has a headlight switch and wiring, but no headlights. The hood will give me a place to mount them.

 

Kind of boils down to what is your time worth? Obvious my time is not worth very much  Really not worth building a hood now that have a dry place to park it.

But! The dual purpose is teaching myself to weld and fabricate. I really made some rookie mistakes making the frame for it. I started with curved pipe thinking it would look cool. I would have been way ahead starting with straight pipe instead I finally got it but learned something.

Here is a video, no need to watch it but is what I am thinking for the hood. Nothing fancy.

I do not like the flat front end on this one though. I cut my hood to length straight across like this ... immediately regretted it and started welding it back together.

That was another learning experience. But I got it. I just want a little angle coming to a point in the middle, cut the metal 2" long then fold it in at a angle and recess the grill.

Just give it a little style.

Is the mower worth it? No! I have a better sears craftsman 42" 6 speed that has a good hood, paint, headlights with a little work I will be using it instead.

What I am learning from the experiment is priceless. When I get back to working on my pilothouse. I wont even hesitate putting in the needed patch panels and will be even more comfortable with mixing the paint and spraying it. Just from working on a old lawn mower.

 

Thats the real dual purpose.