Leaking at open hole in the center of the steering box cover

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

The steering box was almost dry when I tackled it. After shimming to eliminate excessive roller tooth play, readjusting the roller shaft and ensuring no binding throughout the turning travel, everything worked very well. After filling with oil there is a pretty substantial leak from a hole in the center of the front housing cover. My shop manual doesn't show much detail on this cover plate.

Diagram shows item 19 oil seal backed up by a spring item 18 and washer item 14... Is this seal the culprit?

Thanx,

Bruce

 

 

 

[keithb7]

I am watching mine too. Same thing. Dripping. Wondering if we leave it till it stops dripping then top up the level? Maybe it will stop? I had my entire gearbox and steering shaft out. I filled the gearbox with oil before re-installing all in the car. I am hoping oil sloshed up above the wire tube, and is dripping out? Hoping so. Otherwise I am on the look out for a new cover/tube assy.

Edited February 2, 2021 by keithb7

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

With a further look, the hole is likely where the "grease retaining tube" is swaged to attach it to the cover (part of item 17 cover assembly ) This suggests the oil is traveling back thru this tube. Ya think the lower seal & spring and washer mentioned would fix that?

Thanx,

Bruce

[Marcel Backs]

What weight oil are you guys using?

[greg g]

Several folks on this board have e switched the gear lube for a tube of John Deere corn head grease. About 6 bucks at the John Deere dealer. 

 

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/317640-what-corn-head-grease-what.html

[Marcel Backs]

John Deere rules. I also use grease. Mercury marine grade is what I use on my outboard motor's fittings as well as the 1939 & 1940's steering box but the ag grade grease will do the same job at a more reasonable price. That's what I was getting at Greg! 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Marcel Backs
bad canadian grammar

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

Using 90 weight per the manual. Thought about grease also, not a bad idea if it is a high temp grease with a high viscosity that doesn't breakdown and drip at high temp- I worry about those things more here in the desert with 110-115 degree months adding to hot engine temps)

 

I also wonder with that tube extending up as far as it does into the box, there might be an upper seal issue instead, or in addition?) I would prefer not to rebuild the whole box.

My guess is that the box doesn't need venting. If not, instead of taking the whole column apart (if that is what it takes), I am tempted to machine another plate without a hole, add a gasket and sister it to the existing cover plate using appropriately longer bolts. That would cure the leak.

Be a lot easier than taking the column and box apart.

Waddya think?

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

I am beginning to like the idea of grease. Sure could save some time!

I will research the hi-temp viscosity stability of marine and ag greases and see. I could live with some seepage if it breaks down a bit. Beats a rebuild! 

Many thanx, fellas. I will reply.

Bruce

[Marcel Backs]

Marine grease fits criteria in your first paragraph, it is formulated not to drip and it chases moisture very effectively which is a bonus. A continuous duty cycle grease is ideal and synthetic is worth looking into. 

[61spit]

I think that the horn wire from the steering column comes out through that hole in the bottom. It is a pretty long tube so I doubt that the oil is going in the top of it. It looks like it is seeping around where the tube is swagged to the cover. I have seen postings about using the corn head grease and it seems to be a good option.

[Sniper]

I think I would try to really clean that plate and tube junction and braze it sealed.

[keithb7]

I just had my steering gear box apart. There are no seals in my 38. Only the shims/gaskets stacked behind this end cover. I used JB weld on the inside and outside (good heavy application) surfaces of the cover. My goal was to secure the swaging and ensure things were sealed. Yet the oil seems to be coming from the inside of the tube. Not the outer sides of it. Almost like the tube has a pin hole in the wall of it. This is mine before I attempted to seal it up:

 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by keithb7

[keithb7]

The outside seen here after my attempt at sealing it up. That part seemed to seal fine. As seen in post #1, drips out the center of the hole.

Corn head grease, may be in my future.

 

 

 

[Marcel Backs]

gear lubes have components which make it "seep" despite it's thick viscocity so it will flow through any small minute opening. By the looks of the picture above the junction where the tube meets the plate is wanting. Sniper's idea of a little brazing at any questionable junction is very logical. M

[keithb7]

 

7 minutes ago, Marcel Backs said:

gear lubes have components which make it "seep" despite it's thick viscocity so it will flow through any small minute opening. By the looks of the picture above the junction where the tube meets the plate is wanting. Sniper's idea of a little brazing at any questionable junction is very logical. M

There is lots of JB weld on the inside, back side of the cover, sealing that swaged connection. I'd have sworn there was plenty enough to seal it up. 

As mentioned that area is not leaking. its dripping out the center of the tube. See pic one of this thread.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by keithb7

[Marcel Backs]

gear lube could be destroying JB seal over time ( although it is a great product). Gear lube is nasty stuff! That's why braze is more favourable hands down.

[keithb7]

The JB was stroked on about 8 days ago. The leak appeared later that same day upon reassembly.

[Sniper]

Problem with JB Weld or even brazing is that if it is not perfectly clean it doesn't stick.  If I had to fix this I might think hard about making a new tube, take the old tube off and ultrasonic cleaning the heck out of the plate and new tube before brazing.

[Marcel Backs]

If you do not have a brazing set up, silver solder and a propane torch will work. JB not so much. It seems a leak so soon after application indicates a breakdown in sealing agent.

[Marcel Backs]

muriatic acid etch will work fine

[Tooljunkie]

I used the same grease cv joints are packed with. I havent looked lately but it definetly not leaking as much as before. 
 

snapper riding mowers use a 00 grease in the gear box. I think it would be ideal. Its a light grease, comes in a squeeze bottle. 
 

i have moved my 51 in near 0f temps and it isnt that difficult to turn. 

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

Question for you steering box gurus:

My horn wire is still out. Can this cover and tube assembly be removed without taking anything else apart? I was afraid to pull it in case other things inside came loose or out of position. I do not want to end up taking the steering column out and having to take the steering box apart.

If I can remove and reassemble the cover and tube assembly and shims without disturbing anything else inside, I will probably do that and braze the tube joint to the cover.

Otherwise, I really like the idea of using grease. 

The temp viscosity stability of the John Deere Corn Head Grease is really good- -30 C to + 165 C.

Thanx, all.

Bruce

 

 

[Sniper]

You ever pul a thread on your shirt and the whole thing unravels?  ?

[JBNeal]

Cover should be removable in order to add/remove shims during adjustments, tho have something ready to take the cover's place while working on the tube, could be as simple as threading 2 bolts on opposing holes and wrapping some wire around them.  If the tube is tight on the plate, then ya should be able to simply apply a sealant like Permatex Gear Oil RTV as needed.

 

Seal 19 appears to keep fluids from going up into the steering shaft.  B-series truck steering gearboxes are of a similar design and do not have this seal.

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

Thanx for all the input. I took the easy way out.

I took the plate and tube assembly out and checked to ensure that the tube was swaged tight to the cover.

Cleaned it, wiped the shims and box surfaces clean and reassembled.

Ordered a tube of John Deere Corn Head Grease, took the zerk head off the flex hose on one of my grease guns and pumped the steering box full.

Smooth steering operation and no more worries.

Thanx very much again. On to the next project!