Vintage Air added to '51 flathead

[Dan Heston]

Hello all, my son and I added a Vintage Air Heritage under dash system to his '51 Coronet flathead.  We got it working and blowing all the way down to 38 degrees.  We used a Spal pusher fan in front of the condenser and had to take off the engine fan as it would hit the compressor.  We have a Champion aluminum radiator on order, which should help with our "running hot" issues, but I wanted to see if anyone has had success in adding AC to their flathead.  We have a little bit of binding (only sometimes), which keeps the water pump pulley from turning.  Any help is welcomed.

 

Dan  

[DJ194950]

Some pictures or your setup may help to see what can be done to correct these issues.

 

DJ

[kencombs]

Can't help you, but would sure appreciate pics of your installation to help me plan mine!   I am having difficulty locating a crank pulley with 2 (or more) grooves.  Mine is a 56 plymouth engine and the crank pulley consists of a hub and bolt on pulley.  It is a six bolt pattern, but the holes are not equi-distant.   All the mopar pulleys I've found are later and have equally spaced holes, same circle, just not spaced right on that circle.  Gonna visit a U-pullit or two and look around.  I have a compressor, a couple of condensers and electric fans.  Mounts I can make, pulleys, not so much.

[Sniper]

I am planning to do the same as well, but no hep on your question.  Post some pics and let the collective wisdom help you out. 

 

I plan to run a serpentine belt setup and may have found a balancer with built in pulley I can have redrilled to fit the bolt on hub.  I figure a good machine shop with the balancer and hub in hand could do it more accurately than I can with a reasonable cost involved.

[Dan Heston]

Here you go.  I added a few pics of where we are in the install.  When the compressor doesn't bind the torque of the engine, it spins great and the evap blows at 38 degrees.  The compressor is run off a double water pump pulley (converted chevy pulley) and the back belt still snakes from the crank, over the water pump, and to the alternator.  I am going to try a long belt over all four pieces to see if that may work.  

 

Give me your wisdom.  That's what I need.  Thanks.

1a.pdf 2a.pdf

Edited September 3, 2020 by Dan Heston
Misspellings

[Frank Elder]

It may be just the angle but your pulleys do not seem lined up..... Hard to tell from that picture, you could run a laser from the groove with the compressor pulley to the water pump pulley and see if they lineup I don’t think they do.

[DJ194950]

At least two more but different angle with flash are needed.

one from below that shows crank pulley to water pump- from below/left (pass) side

second from alternator to water pump-driver side that shows both pulleys straight on from the side -flash needed also.

At first look from pics shown, I agree with frank that least the AC pump belt is slightly out of line but not sure how that could affect water pump running unless water pump bearing/bushing are worn out?

Loosen the AC pump belt and see what effect that has with water pump running?  Maybe not enought contact belt contact area for the water pump/generator/Alt.?/crank pulley when AC engaged?

 

Lots of Q's but no answers!  LOL

 

DJ

 

 

[kencombs]

3 hours ago, Dan Heston said:

Here you go.  I added a few pics of where we are in the install.  When the compressor doesn't bind the torque of the engine, it spins great and the evap blows at 38 degrees.  The compressor is run off a double water pump pulley (converted chevy pulley) and the back belt still snakes from the crank, over the water pump, and to the alternator.  I am going to try a long belt over all four pieces to see if that may work.  

 

Give me your wisdom.  That's what I need.  Thanks.

1a.pdf 639.86 kB · 22 downloads 2a.pdf 1.71 MB · 15 downloads

Thanks for posting the pics.  I don't quite grasp the meaning of the red sentence above. Do you mean the compressor stops turning?  Like belt slipping?    I can't tell how much 'wrap'  you have on the various pulleys but maybe consider adding a spring loaded idler like most serpentine systems use.  You could use a longer belt, gain degrees of wrap and get a constant tension, if you have space to add one.

[Sniper]

Ok, what it looks like is you have one belt from the engine to the water pump and the generator/alternator, but not the compressor.  You have a second belt from the water pump to the compressor, but nothing else.  What maybe happening is that when the compressor turns it puts enough drag on the WP pulley that it stops that pulley and the belt from the engine slips on it.  Can you watch for that as someone turns the AC on and off to see if you can replicate it?

 

BTW, what what did you use to mount the compressor to the engine?  Any info would be appreciated.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Sniper

[kencombs]

A couple of possibilities, that belt is .41 inch wide, which I think is the same as my 56 plymouth pulleys so that should be a match to your crankshaft pulley.    But it looks to be seated very low on the compressor groove.  Is it intended for that narrow belt, or could it be for a 1/2"?

 

Also, it has been my experience that those cogged belts, while bending over tight radii well, sacrifice load carrying ability due to the 'missing' sidewall notches. 

[Dan Heston]

Okay everyone, VICTORY is ours.  We have an original 1951 Coronet flathead 230 successfully turning a Sanden AC compressor.  Not much of a drag on the motor either.  As stated earlier, we had added a double groove pulley to the water pump thinking the original crank, water pump, alternator belt could remain unchanged.  The AC compressor was stopping the spin of the water pump pulley.  We tried belt dressing to sticky it up, to no avail.  We decided we would try to put one really long belt on all four components.  The belt is crank/water pump/compressor/alternator now.

 

No slipping or binding and the evap blows 35 degree air on us while we drive.  We are now experiencing a bit of overheating because the motor fan was taken off so it wouldn't hit the compressor.  With the AC condenser in front of the new aluminum radiator, there is restricted air flow that our 1200 cfm Spal fan can't overcome.  We ordered a larger 2100 cfm pusher fan as there isn't enough room for a puller fan.  I'll get some pics uploaded, but if anyone wants more sent directly too them showing more detail, let me know.  I'd be happy to share how we pulled this off.  Dan H

[NickPick'sCrew]

14 minutes ago, Dan Heston said:

  I'll get some pics uploaded, but if anyone wants more sent directly too them showing more detail, let me know.  I'd be happy to share how we pulled this off.  Dan H

Dan,  We plan on doing this with Nicholas's '47 soon after we get it driving.  We were looking closely at Vintage Air as well.  He has a '56 230 in it.  If you could share  the detailed pics and parts list, that would be great (NickPickToo or NichPick'sCrew).  Info on the bracket would be most helpful as well as we haven't had much luck finding one.

[Sniper]

20 hours ago, NickPick'sCrew said:

Dan,  We plan on doing this with Nicholas's '47 soon after we get it driving.  We were looking closely at Vintage Air as well.  He has a '56 230 in it.  If you could share  the detailed pics and parts list, that would be great (NickPickToo or NichPick'sCrew).  Info on the bracket would be most helpful as well as we haven't had much luck finding one.

 

 Me too, as I plan to put AC in as well.  I did notice that Vintage had a single groove pulley compressor though.  Would that have been an option?

[pflaming]

Approximately what did those parts cost?  I’m researching to install a Vintage Air VW unit in my truck. The inside space of the trucl cab is less than a VW sedan and the VW compressor only requires a 30 hp engine.  Food for thought! 

[James_Douglas]

I am planning on using a serpentine belt. I also will be using the Clark Electric Water pump so that I can run the pulley to the compressor to a big alternator with an idle wheel.

A radiator fan on the inside, with two fans or perhaps 4 fans. That way if one goes, I still have some cooling. The electric water pump is a very good idea as it will maintain flow no matter what the engine speed is.

 

I should have it all mocked up by Christmas. I would not mind some good shots of the A/C mounting bracket.

 

James

[pflaming]

JAMES, remember these radiators cooled the flatheads at 30+ mph. 

[Dan Heston]

On 9/18/2020 at 8:03 AM, pflaming said:

Approximately what did those parts cost?  I’m researching to install a Vintage Air VW unit in my truck. The inside space of the trucl cab is less than a VW sedan and the VW compressor only requires a 30 hp engine.  Food for thought! 

The total cost was approximately $1400.  

[YukonJack]

I'd be interested in knowing what parts you used, pulley's, engine brackets etc. Additional pictures would be nice too. 

Edited October 2, 2020 by YukonJack