New Fuel Sender Issue - leaks - Anyone else

[James_Douglas]

Hi All,

 

I installed a new manufacture fuel sender in my Desoto. One of the two wire thrmo types used in Desoto and Chrysler. I got it off of one of the usual suspects on ebay.

 

The problem is that it is leaking. Not at the seal and not at the threads. It is leaking from the two pop rivets that hold the thing together.

 

It leaks a lot after you fill up the tank. In the 1946 to 1950 Desoto's and I assume Chrysler's the filler neck is fairly high above the top of the tank. A gas station pump handle only goes in about 5 inches when you fill it up. So the final fuel level is above the tank top. The pressure is pushing out a fair amount of fuel through the rivet centers.

 

What I want to know is anyone else having this issue? I suspect it is a design issue and not a malfunction. The factory used solid rivets on the their senders...

 

James.

Edited February 24, 2020 by James_Douglas

[Sam Buchanan]

Maybe apply some fuel tank sealant around and over the rivets? Yes...it is aggravating to have to address somebody's engineering flaw.

 

My "new" tank (passed my pressure test prior to installation) leaks fuel when nearly full, I'm gonna have to take a look at the two-wire sender I installed a few months ago.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[James_Douglas]

I have found that such a large "hole" does not seal well over the long term with fuel tank sealant. If I did anything to it, I would drill out the pop rivets and place solid rivets in their place. I have been using 545 loctite on the threads for the screws...since little lead washers are hard to find..and it works great. But, it will not fill a gap the size of a rivet hole.

 

I found that the amount of fuel coming out and vaporizing was enough to warrant a safety issue. If someone filled up a car and parked it in a garage for a week...it amount of vapor would be a nuisance and could be a safety issue.

 

One of my factory units I sent to Atwater Kent for rebuilding and they used pop rivets with gas tank sealer between the two parts. It leaked. I took out the rivets, made a gasket, used fuel gasket sealant and out in solid rivets and then it did not leak. The issue is the resistor died a year or so ago. That is why I purchased a new one thinking I would not have to screw with it.

 

I am pulling it out later today and putting in a factor unit for the time being. Better not to have working sender than a leaking one.

 

James.

[Plymouthy Adams]

remove the sender, remove the rivets and come back with small hardware that you can seal the two together...else you have no recourse but to ask for a replacement or your money refunded.  Sad to say products like this exist but as they are produced on the average a sweat shop in some other country, few quality details in manufacturing is often ignore, overlooked or just not understood.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams

[kencombs]

Assuming that these 'are 'standard' aluminum pop rivets with a through hole after 'popping', you may be able to tap for a small screw.  A drop of Loctite, screw the little plug in place. 

 

The only question is, if the rivet body will not rotate when the tap is inserted.  Sometimes they break the pin before expanding really tightly.

[DJK]

Are the rivets aluminum or steel? If steel maybe the holes could be soldered to close them!!!!!?????

[50mech]

I've had great luck with fuel proof epoxy.

[YukonJack]

I used JB Weld on a pick up truck with the tank in the cab (behind the seat). It would leak where the filler neck met the tank. No problem after using the JB Weld on it. Nothing more discouraging than buying a new part and having a problem with it.

[Sniper]

pop rivets, lol, what genius decided that was a good choice.

 

Pull the sender, drill out the pop rivets, use solid rivets.  Of course you will need to use the right tool to set the solid rivets.

 

If you already have an air chisel then Ajax Tools sells the rivet set that uses your air chisel to set the rivets.

 

You can find them on Amazon as well as the rivets.

 

Now I do have a secret weapon, my wife was an aircraft mechanic in the Navy and she knows all about rivets. 

 

 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

back in the day they were riveted from the factory only the rivets were solid head....would  have to see a pic of this device....sounds wickedly cheaply built....about normal for most stuff today.

[Sam Buchanan]

Took a look at the sender today (Kanter) and it appears that is where fuel has been leaking. Mixed up a small batch of Flamemaster aircraft tank sealant and applied a glob over each pop rivet after scuffing with Scotchbrite and cleaning with acetone. That stuff will stick to anything! 

 

But I was surprised to find the terminal studs loose.....that could also cause leaks. Tightened the base nuts and reconnected everything, we'll see if that stops the leakage. 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[Plymouthy Adams]

Two sender same issue.....don't sound good,    report on this forum however, anyone that buys one of these in the future are now duly warned to watch close to the build, take precaution as needed based on the  pre installation inspection to correct and not have to revisit the scene of the crime.

[Sniper]

That almost 10 year old expiration date worries me though.  Must be something about aviation types, lol.  I was cleaning out the pantry and my wife had stuff in there with expiration dates almost as old, in the can it went.  She used to be an aviation mechanic in the Navy.

[YukonJack]

2 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Took a look at the sender today (Kanter) and it appears that is where fuel has been leaking. Mixed up a small batch of Flamemaster aircraft tank sealant and applied a glob over each pop rivet after scuffing with Scotchbrite and cleaning with acetone. That stuff will stick to anything! 

 

But I was surprised to find the terminal studs loose.....that could also cause leaks. Tightened the base nuts and reconnected everything, we'll see if that stops the leakage. 

 

That stuff doesn't have a very long shelf life. Looks like it expired 10 years ago.

[Sam Buchanan]

You guys need to relax......the sealer is stored in the refrigerator and it is good for odd jobs for years post expiration. I wouldn’t seal new aircraft tanks with that batch but it still adheres aggressively to a 1948 Plymouth. This is the same batch I used to seal the tranny last year.

 

Find something else to worry about.....unless you have B-1 bomber tanks to seal (that’s what the sealer was developed for).   ?

Edited February 26, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[Plymouthy Adams]

many products with an expiration date especially in Mil Spec are simply a reminder to inspect at that date....it is not always an absolute....

[Sam Buchanan]

2 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

many products with an expiration date especially in Mil Spec are simply a reminder to inspect at that date....it is not always an absolute....

Amen.

[Sniper]

 

1 hour ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

many products with an expiration date especially in Mil Spec are simply a reminder to inspect at that date....it is not always an absolute....

 

Having served I can tell you that in Mil Spec speak expired means expired, if it meant inspect it would have been labeled inspect and given an inspect date.  Mil Spec is pretty good about being very specific and not leaving any grey areas. MIL-STD-129P is the relevant document.

 

 

 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

I know many cases where it say, inspect and return to stock...sorry but I am not buying your clear cut explanation....many products have an inspection date...and if found bad on inspection usually destroyed by lot/batch but if good is given a continuation of service/shelf life.....

Edited February 26, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams

[Sam Buchanan]

Hey.....no argument, the sealer is ten years past the expiration date. It would be a violation of whatever mil-specs are in play to use this batch on a B-1 bomber tank.

 

But that has absolutely no relevance in regard to sealing a fuel sender on the P-15......I may still be using this sealer five years from now. I’ve never “served” but I have nearly 1400 hrs in the aircraft with tanks I sealed twenty years ago. I have a lot of experience with this particular product. Do you?

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[Plymouthy Adams]

1 minute ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Hey.....no argument, the sealer is ten years past the expiration date. It would be a violation of whatever mil-specs are in play to use this batch on a B-1 bomber tank.

 

But that has absolutely no relevance in regard to sealing a fuel sender on the P-15......I may still be using this sealer five years from now.

 

Get over it.   ?

 

and to this end it is a great boon to those of us who can take advantage of the military surplus outlet picking items that are still in service date constraints but NLA for the facility and thus disposed of...I have a 1/2 gallon container of molybdenum disulfide powder......buy a teaspoon of that stuff today... I paid 5.00 for this huge container...shelf life, as long as it is on my shelf it has life...?  its a dry powder that I mix to the consistency I need when I need it...

[James_Douglas]

16 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

You guys need to relax......the sealer is stored in the refrigerator and it is good for odd jobs for years post expiration. I wouldn’t seal new aircraft tanks with that batch but it still adheres aggressively to a 1948 Plymouth. This is the same batch I used to seal the tranny last year.

 

Find something else to worry about.....unless you have B-1 bomber tanks to seal (that’s what the sealer was developed for).   ?

Sam, Just make sure you put a tag on it that says "no longer for aircraft use"...you would not want the man from the local FSDO to see that without it placarded :-)

[Plymouthy Adams]

I worked the B1B Lancer electronic warfare system for 17 years until my DoD retirement......

[Sam Buchanan]

We had a local pilot who used to be a check engineer for the B1 ground-following radar system. He said it was quite the experience to be flying near supersonic just over the trees!

 

Yes, my can of tank sealant is reserved for a low and slow antique (4-wheel) vehicle flying at less than 0.1 mach.......  ?