jump starting a 6 volt positive ground car

[harmony]

I had a look around on the forums and I couldn't find a topic quite like this one so forgive me if it has already been covered.

I have a Noco Genius 2000A  GB70  booster and I keep it in the trunk of my regular more modern car.  It works great for jump starting someone in a parking lot.  Saves getting out jumper cables and pulling your car up to theirs etc etc.

My question is if I carried one in my '48 Chrysler and for whatever reason my battery was too weak to start my car, do you think this would work? 

I don't see it being any different than jump starting with jumper cables.  I've read that when doing that from 12V to 6V it's ok as long as you're fast disconnecting it as soon as it starts so as not to put too much juice through the 6 volt system.  I've also read that with positive ground you disregard the battery ground and ground the jumper cable from the 12 volt car to the frame of the 6 volt car with the negative jumper lead.  Then hold the positive lead of the jumper cables to the negative post on the battery until it starts then removing it quickly.  Did I get that right?

 

So if all that is correct I would think that the same could be said with the Genius booster.  The Genius does have idiot lights that will light up if you have the polarity wrong.  I'm not sure if you would just ignore that or if it would sense wrong polarity and trip an internal switch preventing any power to get to the leads. 

[allbizz49]

Jump it at the starter itself, not the battery. Starter can handle 12 volt no problem.

[62rebelP23]

Reading your post, you're setting yourself up for lots of sparks and tears. Regardless of "ground"; never jump positive to negative posts. Red cable to the POSITIVE post on the battery; black cable to the cable stud on the starter, or to the NEGATIVE post ON THE BATTERY. As far as internal sensing on the booster, I wouldn't trust it. And the 12v is only being used by the starter while cranking (and the ignition circuit, sorry) , so as long as your lights, etc, are off, no worries.

[dpollo]

Positive to positive, negative to negative.      Period.   If you do it the other way, you will have an 18 volt dead short across two batteries and one of them will likely blow, spreading acid in all directions.  It is not a good idea to jump 6 volts with 12 but if the starter is engaged harm will be held to a minimum.

When these questions come up, I can only assume that our school science programs have failed to teach the most elementary information about basic electrical circuits.

Good for you for seeking advice  but I implore you, go back to my first sentence and under NO circumstances look directly at either battery when carrying out this very risky operation.

[keithb7]

When I went to look at my ‘38 when it was for sale, the owner was hooking up a spare 12V battery directly up to the 6V battery. Post to post, using booster cables. I cringed, looked away expecting an explosion at any second. The old engine slowly cranked and started. It should have been almost spinning itself over in the motor mounts! Later when I bought the car I found 12V small battery cables installed. When I pulled the starter apart the armature was tore up with some windings melted. Later I tore out lots of wiring and replaced it. We’re back to good ol’ 6V throughout and she’s happy as a lark. 

 

I have boosted my 1953 6V Chrysler with a 12V booster battery pack. I turned off all electrical. Even disconnected the 6V battery. Key on. Put the 12V right on the  starter lug. Spun at double speed and fired right up. I quickly re installed the 6V battery cable and all was good. 

[soth122003]

The booster your describing sounds like one of those 12v li-ion jumpers. Those need a minimum voltage to work, I believe at least 10v. Even when a 12v batt is dead it will usually read 10-12v on a meter. It just won't have the current to start a car. With a 6v pos ground system, I would say it won't work, but I could be wrong. The best way to jump your car is an older jump pack or a battery (6 or 12 volt) and connect pos to pos and neg to the starter (either at the starter or at the cable connected to the starter solenoid). A jump pack with the on-off switch on it works great and they are about 40-60 bucks at Harbor Freight. 

 

Joe Lee

[48ply1stcar]

I use a 6 / 12 volt battery charger. You might need a 100 foot extension cord.  But seriously, I think if you can keep a 71-year-old 6 volt positive ground car on the road, you shouldn't need a battery pack - you da man.

[desoto1939]

I have a 6v trickle charger that is constantly hooked up to my 39 Desoto.  The topic of keeping a 6v battery fully charge has been discussed many times at the annual AACA meeting and lecture series in Philadelphia every year.  There isa n engineer from Penn State that talks about this numberous times.  By keeping a trickle charge on the battery it wil extend the life of your battery. I have one and got 8 years out of a battery.

 

The importance it that when a battery goes down then in the process the plates strt to lose the metal from each plate and this then settles in the bottom of the battery case. and then makes it harder for the battery to come back to a full charge. ALso import is to keep the fluid or acid level up to the required level.  So by keeping it a fullchagre less break down of the metal plates and losing metal on each plate so therefore the battery wil last longer.

 

I purchased a 6/12v  wall mounted charge at Costco several years at it is a 3amp system has the two alligator clips and has the indicators light to tell when charged and fully charged.  I think the cost was around $35.

 

If you need pictures of the unit I can take some and post to the forum.  Best Xmas to myself  and I always know that the car is ready to turnover even in the winter.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[harmony]

2 hours ago, desoto1939 said:

I have a 6v trickle charger that is constantly hooked up to my 39 Desoto.  The topic of keeping a 6v battery fully charge has been discussed many times at the annual AACA meeting and lecture series in Philadelphia every year.  There isa n engineer from Penn State that talks about this numberous times.  By keeping a trickle charge on the battery it wil extend the life of your battery. I have one and got 8 years out of a battery.

 

The importance it that when a battery goes down then in the process the plates strt to lose the metal from each plate and this then settles in the bottom of the battery case. and then makes it harder for the battery to come back to a full charge. ALso import is to keep the fluid or acid level up to the required level.  So by keeping it a fullchagre less break down of the metal plates and losing metal on each plate so therefore the battery wil last longer.

 

I purchased a 6/12v  wall mounted charge at Costco several years at it is a 3amp system has the two alligator clips and has the indicators light to tell when charged and fully charged.  I think the cost was around $35.

 

If you need pictures of the unit I can take some and post to the forum.  Best Xmas to myself  and I always know that the car is ready to turnover even in the winter.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

Thanks for the info.  Yes I have a new 6/12 volt charger similar to yours.  Not sure what the charging rate is when it's on 6 volt but it's not much.  I actually pulled the battery out the other day and charged it for about 4- 2 hr sessions. This particular charger doesn't have an automatic switch off when it's set at 6 volt for some reason so I didn't want to push the limit by leaving it hooked up over night.  I checked the cells with a hydrometer and it's 1275 now. 

[harmony]

3 hours ago, 48ply1stcar said:

I use a 6 / 12 volt battery charger. You might need a 100 foot extension cord.  But seriously, I think if you can keep a 71-year-old 6 volt positive ground car on the road, you shouldn't need a battery pack - you da man.

Yes I have a 6/12 volt charger but there may come a time when 110 voltage isn't available to power it up.  So it's just nice to know what other options are used when necessary.  I agree wholeheartedly with what you said.  I believe that one of the commitments of a stewardship of being the guardian of a 71 year old unmolested car is the responsibility of caring for it and always checking for any signs of required attention.

[harmony]

12 hours ago, soth122003 said:

The booster your describing sounds like one of those 12v li-ion jumpers. Those need a minimum voltage to work, I believe at least 10v. Even when a 12v batt is dead it will usually read 10-12v on a meter. It just won't have the current to start a car. With a 6v pos ground system, I would say it won't work, but I could be wrong. The best way to jump your car is an older jump pack or a battery (6 or 12 volt) and connect pos to pos and neg to the starter (either at the starter or at the cable connected to the starter solenoid). A jump pack with the on-off switch on it works great and they are about 40-60 bucks at Harbor Freight. 

 

Joe Lee

That's interesting and good to know.  Yes it is li-ion so you may be quite right about what you say.  Maybe I should contact the maker of it and ask if indeed this particular jump starter needs a minimum voltage for it to work.

[harmony]

13 hours ago, keithb7 said:

When I went to look at my ‘38 when it was for sale, the owner was hooking up a spare 12V battery directly up to the 6V battery. Post to post, using booster cables. I cringed, looked away expecting an explosion at any second. The old engine slowly cranked and started. It should have been almost spinning itself over in the motor mounts! Later when I bought the car I found 12V small battery cables installed. When I pulled the starter apart the armature was tore up with some windings melted. Later I tore out lots of wiring and replaced it. We’re back to good ol’ 6V throughout and she’s happy as a lark. 

 

I have boosted my 1953 6V Chrysler with a 12V booster battery pack. I turned off all electrical. Even disconnected the 6V battery. Key on. Put the 12V right on the  starter lug. Spun at double speed and fired right up. I quickly re installed the 6V battery cable and all was good. 

Thanks Keith.  Good to know.  So when you say you disconnected the battery, did you pull both neg/pos off it and put the jumper ground cable directly to the block?

Edited December 18, 2019 by harmony

[desoto1939]

I have attahed pictures of the 3amp Battery Tender that I was talking about in a prior posting.  The nice part of this charger is that is can handle 6v and also 12. you select which type of battery.

 

Since my 39 Desoto is a positive ground I connect the positive red clip to one of the head bolts and the black which is negative directly to were my battery cable attaches to the start soleinoid on the starter moter.

 

This unit will inform the user when the unit it charging and also when it has fully charged the battery. The unit has a storage/float maintenance mode: ( low constant voltage, battery is 100 to 103% charged  Whenthe battery is fully charged the battery level status green Led light will turn solid green and the charger will switch to a storage/float maintenance charge mode.  The Battery Tender will automatically monitor and maintain the battery at full charge

I have a picture of the fron of the unit and thenone with the red clip on the engine head and the third clip on the battery cable going to the battey on the starter.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[Tom Skinner]

Rich,

Nice Set up. I like it. I went a different route. I replaced all my wiring. I buy a new 6 Volt battery every 3 years. I drive my car 1-2 times a week.

Therefore no more electric gremlins. Just a Chrysler that likes to get out and stretch. I did notice when Advance Auto took over Car Quest their

6 Volt Batteries C.C.A. (Cold Cranking Amps) went down from around 885 to something like 790 or some such. I take that to mean on a real cold

Day I might be S.O.L. trying to start it if I move back up North or to the Mountains of N.C.. I will try to keep my Car indoors however, so the

likely hood of that happening will be lowered.

Tom

[harmony]

31 minutes ago, desoto1939 said:

I have attahed pictures of the 3amp Battery Tender that I was talking about in a prior posting.  The nice part of this charger is that is can handle 6v and also 12. you select which type of battery.

 

Since my 39 Desoto is a positive ground I connect the positive red clip to one of the head bolts and the black which is negative directly to were my battery cable attaches to the start soleinoid on the starter moter.

 

This unit will inform the user when the unit it charging and also when it has fully charged the battery. The unit has a storage/float maintenance mode: ( low constant voltage, battery is 100 to 103% charged  Whenthe battery is fully charged the battery level status green Led light will turn solid green and the charger will switch to a storage/float maintenance charge mode.  The Battery Tender will automatically monitor and maintain the battery at full charge

I have a picture of the fron of the unit and thenone with the red clip on the engine head and the third clip on the battery cable going to the battey on the starter.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

I can get the same unit 5 minutes from where I live at Canada's largest chain store (for "basic" auto parts) but for some reason the unit they sell ( even though it looks virtually the same)only has 12V no 6V option.  I went to Deltran's website and came across PN: 022-0202-COS.  Sort of the same as yours only more of a reduced size in line unit.  Something caught my eye in the description where they mention that being a 3 A charger, it maintains the proper battery storage voltage without the damaging effects of a trickle charger.  So my question is what damaging effects do trickle chargers have?

[Adam H P15 D30]

Rich,

 

Is there a reason you don't connect the battery tender directly to the battery?

 

Thanks,

Adam

[harmony]

1 minute ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

Rich,

 

Is there a reason you don't connect the battery tender directly to the battery?

 

Thanks,

Adam

My question too ?

[soth122003]

15 minutes ago, Tom Skinner said:

Therefore no more electric gremlins. Just a Chrysler that likes to get out and stretch. I did notice when Advance Auto took over Car Quest their

6 Volt Batteries C.C.A. (Cold Cranking Amps) went down from around 885 to something like 790 or some such. I take that to mean on a real cold

Day I might be S.O.L. trying to start it if I move back up North or to the Mountains of N.C.. I will try to keep my Car indoors however, so the

likely hood of that happening will be lowered.

Hey Tom,

I quit buying my 6v batteries from the auto stores because I found they sit on the shelf for quite a while. last time I tried to buy one the date was over a year old. I found that Tractor Supply has a good turn over and the CA was 875 but the CCA is 700. They last about 5 years or so.

 

My car sits outside all the time. (keep the Harley in garage). What I did was I had an old 36 LED solar powered security light from Harbor Freight. The light went bad from exposure but the solar panel was still good. Put a meter on it and it puts out 7-8 volts (maybe 1/2 an amp or so) dc so I put a couple of alligator clips on it and hooked it to the battery and ran the very long wire down the hood and into the door and let the panel sit on the back floorboard while driving. When I stop for the day or even a few hours I sit it on the roof and trickle charge the battery. I used some glue and glued four little magnets onto the base so it doesn't go any where. With such low amps I'm not afraid of over charging the battery, so I leave sit on the roof for days at a time when I'm not driving it. Been working good for over 3 years now.

 

Joe Lee

[Tom Skinner]

Joe Lee,

Cool Cool, That's what I call ingenuity. I really would rather not park outside, however at my age I only need this car another 10 years or so and some one else will own it.

I do shop at Tractor Supply also, Great Store!

Tom

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, harmony said:

I can get the same unit 5 minutes from where I live at Canada's largest chain store (for "basic" auto parts) but for some reason the unit they sell ( even though it looks virtually the same)only has 12V no 6V option.  I went to Deltran's website and came across PN: 022-0202-COS.  Sort of the same as yours only more of a reduced size in line unit.  Something caught my eye in the description where they mention that being a 3 A charger, it maintains the proper battery storage voltage without the damaging effects of a trickle charger.  So my question is what damaging effects do trickle chargers have?

 

Here is the charger I purchased after the 6v P15 arrived in my shop:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0756Q88J5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

It has automatic voltage sensing, polarity protection and switching to trickle mode.

 

The reason you may find warnings about the continual use of trickle chargers is because of the unusual characteristics of AGM batteries. These are the ventless Odyssey and such batteries that don't have liquid acid. Those batteries hold a charge for a very long time without charging and their lifetime can be shortened by continual charging with anything other than specialized chargers.

 

The charger I have really works nicely but I haven't used it after I installed an alternator. The alternator keeps the battery fully charged even with short trips with the lights on.

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[desoto1939]

1 hour ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

Rich,

 

Is there a reason you don't connect the battery tender directly to the battery?

 

Thanks,

Adam

Yes there is a reason.  My battery is a factory setup in which the battery box is under the fron seat on the driver side of the car.  So in order to connect directly to the battery I would have to lift out the seat then remove the top cover of the battery box and then connect the two leads.  Then when wanting to take the car out have to reverse the whole process.

 

The way that I have it working is I just remove the two alligator clips and I am good to start the car and go for a ride.  This unit has no issues with charging the battery in this setup.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[desoto1939]

44 minutes ago, Tom Skinner said:

Joe Lee,

Cool Cool, That's what I call ingenuity. I really would rather not park outside, however at my age I only need this car another 10 years or so and some one else will own it.

I do shop at Tractor Supply also, Great Store!

Tom

Tom, Question about parking the car outside. Here in Pa we can not parkthe car outside.  JC Taylor and all the other major antiuq car insurance carriers require and it is in writing on their policy and you also sign the policy that the car will be stored inside a garage and cannot be storded under a carport. It must be fully enclosed. If that is the same with your carrier there could be an issue if the car got damaged while it was outside at night and not in a garage.

 

If you are on a trip then they do not require the garage while on a trip.  So suggestion is for everyone to check their coverage and where they need to store the car at night time and when the car is not being used. You could run into an issue.  Food for Thought.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[Tom Skinner]

Rich,

My Car is inside all the time. Thank Goodness I have a Garage. In addition to that only I can Drive it on weekends unless going to a Car Show.

Hagerty (My Carrier) also wants everyone with their Insurance to limit their driving to the tune of about 1000 miles a year Tops.

Which I am sure also to do. Thank you for your concern, I have been lucky enough to own this one for 13 Years (A 1948 Chrysler Royal Sedan).

Tom

[desoto1939]

1 hour ago, Tom Skinner said:

Rich,

My Car is inside all the time. Thank Goodness I have a Garage. In addition to that only I can Drive it on weekends unless going to a Car Show.

Hagerty (My Carrier) also wants everyone with their Insurance to limit their driving to the tune of about 1000 miles a year Tops.

Which I am sure also to do. Thank you for your concern, I have been lucky enough to own this one for 13 Years (A 1948 Chrysler Royal Sedan).

Tom

Tom I have my car insured by Grundy and he does not have any limitation on the amount of mileage that you can drive your car.  If you do 1 or several thousand it does not matter the price is still the same.  You might want to check him out.  I spoke to Hagerty at Hershey and they did not mention anything about a 1000 mile limitation for antique car insurance.

 

I just went onto Hagerty insurance and here is what they say about driving milage:  Cars are made to be driven. with Hagerty you willnever be held to a fixed mileage limit as long as your are not driving your classi every day.  So you can use it for personal usage to take it for a spin to go to an icecream store or to a museum even if not on a club event  does not have to be a car show. It can be for pleasure and or a maintenance run to keep the seals wet and lubricated.  Thought you might be interested.

This was copied right from the Hagerty webpage.

 

Rich Hartung

Edited December 19, 2019 by desoto1939

[Sam Buchanan]

Heacock Classic is the agency I've used for about 15 years---the Plymouth and VW are insured with an American Modern policy. If memory serves me they like to see less than 3500 miles per year. I found the rates to be very competitive and the policies are for agreed value.

 

https://heacockclassic.com/