Looking for A833 Transmission installation photos

[John-T-53]

31 minutes ago, 55 Fargo said:

John whats your final gear ratio? Which NWC trans do you have and how heavy is your truck?

Well you should be able to climb at 2300 rpm.

The problem with nkeiser is his little 218 is a bit weak.

This is especially true with the truck A833 .71 overdrive 

Yup owned a few old early Rangers and 1 S10 4cyl. Not the greatest mechanical marvels the 1980 Ford Courier was the worst.

Your running a basic stock build 230 with dual carbs. While a lot better than a 218 might not be up to the task of a well built 265.

 

Hey Fargo...All of the pertinent information I listed in the post that you quoted. Please check out my build thread linked below for more detailed info and post questions to that one. I don't want to muddy the waters with too much flimflam on Fargone's build thread.

S10's were known for the Iron Duke....same 4 cylinder that still powers the US mail delivery vehicles today!

I would swap in a 265 if I could get me one, they are nice engines. But I really don't have any complaints about the "little" 218, it works great.

 

[55 Fargo]

10 minutes ago, greg g said:

Is the difference between .73 and. .70 really worth calculating? Just stating my experience with one particular car in one particular circumstance. It is purely anecdotal based on one observation.  It believe two gear ratios were available for 6 cylinder volares of the era 3.55 and 3.91.  my guess that the OD cars got the 3.91.  is it worth calculating the difference between 4.11 and 3.91?  Not getting wound up by a 50 to 70 rpm difference if it's even descernable without a tach. 

 

Just relating what was not a practable set up. I believe the flatheads may have more torque than the slant 6 in the similar cruise rpm range but don't know for sure.   As I said I hope the swap works for the conditions.

   

Well of course the difference is nothing, but Greg, the Volares and Aspens with 6 cyl engines and A833 used the 7 1/4 diff with 2.76, 2.94 and 3.23, no the did not have 3.55 or 3.91 unless a special order, trucks got those as well as bigger cars and vans.

The Volare weighing near 3400 lbs, and a 3.23 or even worse a 2.94, would be a real deficit for a .73 gear reduction in a low powered slant 6...

My Fargo, with 228, dual carbs and exhaust and tired, moves it along fine with 3.23 gears, if I shift from 3rd to 4th too soon on a hill of wicked headwind she is a dog until 50 mph or just over 2000 rpm, so yes an A833 would be a disaster, actually a T5 with 4.03 1st and .86 5th would work with a 3.23 gear set...

[greg g]

Source I looked at showed those ratios for 6cyl 4 speed maual with OD in 73.  Didñn't check another.  Don't know or care how big the ring gear is, it's not Germaine to my experience.  Granted I am not reading from the book of  - - - so I'm may be wrong... But I may be right , I might be crazy, I just maybe the lunitic you are looking for...

Edited September 12, 2019 by greg g

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, greg g said:

Source I looked at showed those ratios for 6cyl 4 speed maual with OD in 73.  Didñn't check another.  Don't know or care how big the ring gear is, it's not Germaine to my experience.  Granted I am not reading from the book of  - - - so I'm may be wrong... But I may be right , I might be crazy, I just maybe the lunitic you are looking for...

Okay okay sorry Billy...lol

Thought you lived in western New Yawk not Brooklyn....

[Young Ed]

On 9/10/2019 at 8:20 PM, nkeiser said:

I have a Ford 9" with 3.73 behind my A833. In my limited highway driving so far, third gear gets it up to speed just fine (60-65 mph). However, overdrive has no acceleration. It'll maintain speed on flat ground, but it won't gain any.

what size tires are you running? what is the status of your 218? Your truck is likely a little heavier than my 48 ply coupe but I have a 218 3.73 rear and r10 OD. I don't notice what you are saying about no acceleration. 

[nkeiser]

On 9/12/2019 at 7:55 PM, Young Ed said:

what size tires are you running? what is the status of your 218? Your truck is likely a little heavier than my 48 ply coupe but I have a 218 3.73 rear and r10 OD. I don't notice what you are saying about no acceleration. 

275/60R15 for tires. The 218 was freshly rebuilt, 0.030 over, offenhauser intake, dual Langdon carbs and ignition, and fenton style headers. I'm still tweaking on it, so it may not be running optimal. Some of my issue is also learning how to drive it and finding the right power band for the gears. I've found myself shifting too early which really bogs it down. I need to let it rev more before shifting. I've been working on it long enough, I'm just happy to be able to finally drive it. 

[HotRodTractor]

On 9/12/2019 at 5:33 PM, 55 Fargo said:

Okay HRT lets talk about your current set-up, you bought Don Coatneys 48 Plymouth weight approximately 3100 lbs, rebuilt Desoto 251, with ASche dual carbs and exhaust, rest is stock build, and do not think the cam is anything over stock.

Now which T5 is it, the NWC with 3.76 1st gear and .72 overdrive reduction and a 3.54 rearend, as I seem to recall?

Now you have been posting, about highway trips cruising at 85 mph, you have any issues picking up speed in 5th gear over 60 mph?

The 251 and especially the 265, and especially a well built and tuned 265 will have a lot more grunt pushing up a hill than a little stock USA built 217.

The first gear in your trans is low, but not as bad as the earlier version, heck you must be shifting from 1st to 2nd really quick.

A local guy here has a 32 Chrysler with a 1952 251, 4.03 NWC T5 trans and 3.90 gears, and even with those super tall tires on his car, he takes off in 2nd gear most of the time, its way to low, especially with 3.90 gears. Those transmissions were designed for use with very light, low powered engines, now the later versions, and the Ford 5 litre Mustang and Camaros, used another type.

I really don't think Fargone is going to have any trouble with his tri carbed built 251 and 3.73 gears with a .73 gear reduction in overdrive, plus his foirst gear is 3.08 a heck of difference from 4.03 or 3.76

 

 

3.78 First gear, 0.72 OD, 3.54 rear end (Also nearly identical gearing to my world class V6 Camaro box)

 

No trouble accelerating over 60mph in 5th gear.

 

1st to 2nd isn't terrible, if I was building a truck and was actually going to use it as a truck at all, I would actually want a lower first gear or different gears out back - even if that means I start in second most of the time.

 

You're probably close on weight for mine - and I depending on the model of 32 Chrysler - it might not be that much different.

 

 

[55 Fargo]

18 hours ago, HotRodTractor said:

 

3.78 First gear, 0.72 OD, 3.54 rear end (Also nearly identical gearing to my world class V6 Camaro box)

 

No trouble accelerating over 60mph in 5th gear.

 

1st to 2nd isn't terrible, if I was building a truck and was actually going to use it as a truck at all, I would actually want a lower first gear or different gears out back - even if that means I start in second most of the time.

 

You're probably close on weight for mine - and I depending on the model of 32 Chrysler - it might not be that much different.

 

 

Yes? Well your running .71 overdrive the same as an A833 truck trans with 3.54 no issues.

Your tire size a bit shorter than 28 inches.

The engine a modified 250 makes all the difference in the world.

Now with a 218 or sluggish tired engine a 3.73 or a 3.90 might be more appropriate and all depending on weight of vehicle etc.

My 108 wb Fargo weight approx 3300 lbs with modified but tired 228 and T98A 4spd with 3.23 gears and 28.5 inch tires.

It moves along well enough. But at 60mph in a vicious headwind it can be more of a dog other than that no real issues.

The T98A 4 spd has almost identical gear spread of the A833 1st to 3rd but in 2nd to 4th.

1st at 6.40 is near useless on this trans.

Chrysler Canada used the T98Acme in the Dodge and Fargo line up from 3/4 ton to Powerwagons. It has the removable cover for a transfer case. They were also used in Jeeps International and some Ford applications.

Looking back at older threads on this type of topic Reg Evans posted to me,  that his Old Yellar with rebuilt 251 4spd trans and 3.0 gears keeps up with traffic and does the hills in the sierras just fine 

These engines if healthy are bulls and can push well..

[HotRodTractor]

Full disclosure - because I wanted to confirm before I posted - I also have an Edgy cam with 260 duration and 0.410" lift. I don't have any other information on it other than that.

[55 Fargo]

4 hours ago, HotRodTractor said:

Full disclosure - because I wanted to confirm before I posted - I also have an Edgy cam with 260 duration and 0.410" lift. I don't have any other information on it other than that.

Thats fairly tame at .410 lift with 260 duration and good for street driver use.

So you ever Red Line it? You should be good for 4500 to 4800 RPM.

My old tired 228 with stock cam at .375 lift can spin up to 4 grand...lol

Hit 4000 RPM in 3rd at 56 mph, speedo was reading 10 mph too low.

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by 55 Fargo

[HotRodTractor]

7 minutes ago, 55 Fargo said:

Thats fairly tame at .410 lift with 260 duration and good for street driver use.

So you ever Red Line it? You should be good for 4500 to 4800 RPM.

My old tired 228 with stock cam at .375 lift can spin up to 4 grand...lol

Hit 4000 RPM in 3rd at 56 mph, speedo was reading 10 mph too low.

 

I've never mashed the pedal and seen how high she would spin, but jaunts about 4000 RPMs are pretty common.

[55 Fargo]

14 hours ago, HotRodTractor said:

 

I've never mashed the pedal and seen how high she would spin, but jaunts about 4000 RPMs are pretty 

Deleted not relevant to topic

 

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by 55 Fargo

[Merle Coggins]

Hmm... Those skid marks don’t seem to match the tread pattern on the truck... ? Tire that left the mark had 4 rows of tread blocks. Your Fargo has 5. 

[55 Fargo]

5 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

Hmm... Those skid marks don’t seem to match the tread pattern on the truck... ? Tire that left the mark had 4 rows of tread blocks. Your Fargo has 

Deleted not relevant to topic

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by 55 Fargo

[HotRodTractor]

3 minutes ago, 55 Fargo said:

While Merle I commend you on observation skills and math.

But The old girl spun her shoes.

I have no other vehicles with tire patterns like this...hehehe

The floor us pretty smooth and most likely could do a burn out with a mountain bike...lol

 

I didn't want to embarrass you... but I used to do better burnouts on smooth concrete like that.... with my pedal tractor when I was still wet behind the ears.

[55 Fargo]

3 hours ago, HotRodTractor said:

 

I didn't want to embarrass you... but I used to do better burnouts on smooth concrete like that.... with my pedal tractor when I was still wet behind the 

 

Deleted not relevant to topic

Edited September 18, 2019 by 55 Fargo

[HotRodTractor]

1 hour ago, 55 Fargo said:

HRT your so full of it...lol

You think i couldnt spin a long stretch of rubber on this?

Id go through the friggin wall of the shop if I did...hehehe

Get in your Don Coatney racer and do it?

Heck it was a race car after all...lmao

And yes it was to be a joke, but your way too cool HRPT.

 

 

No - actually I am not. If I go clean out the old milk house there is probably still rubber laying in there under all the dirt and crap.

 

Why has this devolved into this nonsense that has absolutely nothing to do with transmissions at all any more? I had no issues entertaining you a little bit when the questions had some technical content - but this nonsense about doing "burnouts" on smooth concrete is just that. If your self described "tired 228" could do a burnout - then why would it even be in question if a good condition 251 couldn't? Of course the obvious answer to that question is wish to bait someone into some sort of online confrontation. Not phased. Don't care.

 

I think we've wrecked this thread enough. I wish the best of luck to the OP in figuring out his dilemmas with his A833 Pilothouse install.

 

In the spirit of burnouts that don't prove anything, here is my diesel on 37s doing a baby burnout: Video Here

[Fargone]

On 8/23/2019 at 5:41 PM, nkeiser said:

My pickup doesn't have the same crossmember that your's does, so I didn't have that issue. There were lots of other "opportunities" along the way though. The transmission mounting bolts are 9/16", so I had to modify the adapter plate and find some place that had 9/16 bolts. I had to order a bronze bushing to account for the input shaft and throw out bearing diameter differences https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IG7PONW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1  I mentioned the linkage issue, but that could have been solved if I would have found OEM linkage instead of after market. All of the information and websites that have parts for Hurst shifters cater to after market and don't deal with OEM which of course are all unique.

 

I enjoy fabrication, so I had fun tweaking the shifter to fit. It still needs some work as it has a little slop and can be a knuckle buster going to third.

I've been doing some micrometer checks on the input shaft and throw out bearing dimensions and it looks like the bushing would have to be machined down a few thousands. Did yours fit without machining? 

[nkeiser]

6 hours ago, Fargone said:

I've been doing some micrometer checks on the input shaft and throw out bearing dimensions and it looks like the bushing would have to be machined down a few thousands. Did yours fit without machining? 

I didn't have to do any "real" machining. If any, the only thing I had to do was polish to OD down a little bit to fit inside the TO bearing. For that, I just used emery cloth and elbow grease. It was pretty close, so it didn't take much. The only other thing I did was cut it to length.

[Fargone]

18 hours ago, nkeiser said:

I didn't have to do any "real" machining. If any, the only thing I had to do was polish to OD down a little bit to fit inside the TO bearing. For that, I just used emery cloth and elbow grease. It was pretty close, so it didn't take much. The only other thing I did was cut it to length.

Great sounds straight forward enough, my bushing is on it's way to me as we speak.

[48Dodger]

Build it, race it, if you don't win, rebuild it, race it until you win.

Then sort out the good numbers.

To much talking and not enough racing.

Good luck with your build Fargone, enjoying your documentation.

 

48D 

[55 Fargo]

On 9/27/2019 at 1:51 AM, 48Dodger said:

Build it, race it, if you don't win, rebuild it, race it until you win.

Then sort out the good numbers.

To much talking and not enough racing.

Good luck with your build Fargone, enjoying your documentation.

 

48D 

Thats a great idea Tim. In fact you could have your spring tailgate BBQ combined with 1/8 mile drags or circle track race. Even a tractor type pull event!

JohnT53 snd a few other modifieds can see what they can do.

If they dare to rev over 2500 rpm...lol

Edited September 29, 2019 by 55 Fargo

[48Dodger]

John let me floor his dual carb L6 anyway I saw fit on the freeway in the Bay Area....it was impressive. Sanctioned racing is highly regulated, personal builds are not. I'm interested in how Fargone proceeds with his build.

 

48D