New Car Day! 1938 P6 Plymouth Deluxe

[dpollo]

20 inches of mercury is an excellent vacuum reading.   the engine, if you recall what I told you probably came out of a low mileage wreck as Murray, the long term owner, and Hugh, the fellow who installed the engine, had a friend who was an auto wrecker. and the swap was done in 68 or so.  Lots of low mileage cars in Victoria then.  The  transmission noise will be the input shaft bearing.     easy to change without having to disassemble the trans itself, just the front .  These  transmissions s have all helical gears and needle bearing countershaft s . They run very quietly in all gears.  The bearing is easy to obtain, I can give you the number.

[keithb7]

Thanks @dpollo. What you say about the input bearing makes sense. When I let the clutch out in neutral, I hear a bearing. I was thinking clutch pilot bearing. However both pilot and transmission input shaft would be spinning too, correct?

 

When I get in there I’ll change both.  Do think that hole in intake manifold the pipe plug is for wiper vacuum? Thx. 

[dpollo]

the Plymouth your engine came out of had electric wipers.  Usually the port would be near to the carburetor but some had it on the runner to 5 and 6

 

Pilot bushings do not cause much trouble.

[keithb7]

My first new harness will be installed tonite. The headlight harness. I used 14 ga throughout.  Deutsch weatherproof connectors inside the headlight pods for ease of pod removal, when necessary. I bought new 3-connector headlamp plugs with wires. I quickly reasoned that they were built for 12V use. I removed the smaller wires and upgraded them to 14 ga too. Mo’ better’r for 6V lights. 

 

My lovely wife builds electrical harnesses at her place of employment. I gave her my removed, original 1938 harness and this is what she brings home. 

 

I guess I have formally decided to build a safe, reliable 1938 car. I’ll keep it stock where it makes sense. Upgrades where it makes sense too. 

[keithb7]

Traceing what I “think” is the original harness around the car I’ve found another head scratcher. 

 

A wire comes down the firewall, mixed in the large wire bundle that is sheathed. I traced the wire to the end of my steering gear box. It goes into the centre of the cover/end plate of the gear box.  This seems odd, no? Looking in my original ‘38 manual I see nothing related to this wire. 

 

I took a pic.  You can see the black wire and a connector in the wire. The other end of this wire was flopping around not connected to anything. Near the oil filter/starter area. However it was encased in the original factory harness. 

 

Any ideas? Thx. 

 

 

[HotRodTractor]

Horn wiring. Goes to the button in the center of your steering wheel.

[keithb7]

3 minutes ago, HotRodTractor said:

Horn wiring. Goes to the button in the center of your steering wheel.

 

 Interesting. The car has horn wiring hooked up. I might add, with no relay.  It certainly looks like someone got creative with the horn. Lots of fun learning here. Thx. 

[Merle Coggins]

Not all horns use relays. Do you have a single horn or duals? From what I’ve seen the single horns didn’t use a relay. Dual horns did. 

And as has been said, that wire is the ground side of your horn circuit. It goes up to the horn button/ring. 

[maxime]

Great, I'm doing my harness again and I was asking myself the same question.
the wire will go through the box, through the steering wheel tube and towards the horn button for the negative? thank you

Edited August 27, 2019 by maxime

[dpollo]

your system is positive ground.  The circuit to the horn is completed under the button.  The ground is completed  Positive.

[keithb7]

I was thrown off in my initial inquiry due to funky wiring. The wire coming out of the steering gear box in my ‘38 car, plugs in to the main harness. Then it proceeds to “dead-end”, going nowhere. Bare wire left hanging that I plan to deal with. Yet my horn works. Lol.  Someone likely added a separate wire to ground somewhere. I’ll get in there and find it. 

 

 

 

[maxime]

The joys and mysteries of old cars.
Yesterday, on my Plymouth 39, I advanced to 80% the harness refurbishment with beautiful discoveries of nonsense compared to the wiring plan, so I took the opportunity to clean and put on the plan.
Good continuation

[keithb7]

The scabby old original rear chassis harness was pulled today. I lay’d it out and tagged each wire at each end. I’ve wrapped my head around exactly how it’s put together. A modern custom built replica will be hand built by my wife, then I’ll install it.  I must say, for anyone new to this, a factory manual is paramount. I’ll likely curse myself some time in the future when I add turn signals. 

 

I’m rather smitten about the whole process. First time for me. Sure is fun and feeds my brain what it craves. Knowledge. 

Onward and upward!

 

 

 

 

[Sam Buchanan]

Now is the time to add turn signal wires to the new harness........... 

[RobertKB]

16 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Now is the time to add turn signal wires to the new harness........... 

 

Totally agree!

[keithb7]

I got lined up with an engine hoist today so I placed the original 1938 201 engine on a stand. I want to dig into the bottom end. A learning exercise for me at a minimum.  I’m not sure I want to rebuild it. The 1954 228 engine in the car now runs great, and makes more power than this 201. So I have decided to dig in to the original engine. Clean it up. Inspect and measure everything and make an assessment. Cylinder bore, crank bearing surfaces, etc to be measured to gain knowledge and experience at this point. 

 

This 201 engine has been sitting since the mid-60’s. Everything has been in the crankcase except oil it seems. 

 

I am quite interested in getting into the front and rear main seals. I need to install a new rear seal on my running ‘53 Chrysler. Having never done one before, this 201 engine will give me a great practice run. 

 

Crankshaft to come out next. Cam. Front timing gears, etc. I am pretty jacked up about this little side project.  Should I start a new thread on my findings and then others can learn from it and follow along? Keith

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by keithb7

[Los_Control]

3 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Crankshaft to come out next. Cam. Front timing gears, etc. I am pretty jacked up about this little side project.  Should I start a new thread on my findings and then others can learn from it and follow along? Keith

I find it easier, if I search a specific topic, then find the info.

At the same time, you have a lot of info in the current thread ... imho, I think it gets lost and unused.

I kinda think a specific title for a specific job, when others search for it, will be easier to find.

I vote for a new thread.

 

Did I ever tell ya about the time when I was 5 years old and ate dirt? ..... you may not want to take my advice.

[keithb7]

Time for a reading break...The original 1938 shop manual assumes the reader has considerable experience in these engines. I suppose the manuals were written for dealer mechanics. If you didn’t already have considerable experience, well you probably shouldn’t be employed at a CPDD dealer. 

 

I’ve started collecting books across 25 years of CPDD cars. I find the books seem to have different images and different levels of instruction on the same topic. 

 

Engine won’t bar over yet. Front cover, seal retainer and front main cap are all that’s left holding the crank. She’s stubborn. 

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by keithb7

[keithb7]

Up to this point I had underestimated the effort required to get the rusty valve train apart. The valves are very stubborn. Guides and stems rusted together. Valve surfaces frozen to their related seats. What took over 50 years for nature to develop won’t be undone in 30 minutes. 

 

I started soaking the parts with penetrating oil. I am not attempting to reuse these valve train parts. I want to get them out, so I can pull the cam and clear out the block. 

 

On a positive note, my scissor type spring compressor tool works great! 

 

One other thing I learned: When I think about switching an old car over to modern synthetic oil. Pulling the oil pan and valve covers to clean out old sludge is important. However I’ve  not heard anyone mention pulling the cam timing gear cover off. What a mess of sludge! There was ALOT of sludge in there. It’s something to consider.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by keithb7

[keithb7]

I measured the crank main and rod surfaces today. Cylinder bore too. Got my micrometers out and a snap-T gage. 

 

Unless I’m screwing this up it appears all stock. I’m getting numbers 0.0015 under the published new measurements of the rods. With my limited mic work, I’ll margin some error into my numbers. About upto 0.004 larger on the cylinder bore. Cylinder wear? Bang on stock size on all 4 crank mains. 

 

It appears this old 1938 201.3 engine may never have been rebuilt. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by keithb7

[keithb7]

I picked up my fuel tank. Its like new again. The fellow did a fantastic job. All the old rubbery sealer is gone. I ‘ll be putting it back in after I finish buildling and installing the rear chassis harness.  I’m Working on that now. 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by keithb7

[wldavis3]

That looks great.

[keithb7]

I installed my rear frame harness today. I am getting ready to install the fuel tank. Before I do that I opened up my fuel line at the front of the car. I blew compressed air through it. There was a fair bit of gunk in it! As seen in the bottom of this container in the photo below. 

 

Next I’ll pull out the questionable 6V pump that is mounted up on the firewall, pulling fuel. I suppose I’ll research prices for a new mechanical diaphragm fuel pump. The quality of a new mechanical pump could be questionable. Then decide if I’ll run a mechanical pump along with a 6V back up. Or run just the 6V pump only. The new 6V pump, I’ll install near the tank to push fuel, versus pulling and lifting fuel.  

 

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by keithb7

[Bbdakota]

5 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Then decide if I’ll run a mechanical pump along with a 6V back up

Sorta what I did. I have the 6v pump near the tank but I still have the mechanical pump in line. I can prime the carb with the 6v, engine hardly rolls over and fires off. And, If the 6v pump goes out, the mechanical pump will pull fuel through it.

[keithb7]

My wife is laughing at me while I sit in my black dark garage, inside my ‘38 tonite.  Today was a small step for car repairs , but a giant step for my own benefit and motivation. Tonite we have dash lights in the Plymouth! Super exciting stuff. I felt nostalgic sitting in there enjoying the old gauges. Feeling like a passenger might have in 1938. 

 

The wiring re-work is progressing. The rear chassis harness and fuel tank are back in place. Today I cleaned up a fair bit of badly deteriorated wires. More to go, but just wanted to share my progress.