Rear ended not turning .

[46windsir]

Hello I’m currently working on my 46 Windsor with a fluid drive transmission I got the motor running and currently fixing things as I go , one issue I’m stuck on is the rear diff not rotating, I’m able to put the car in gear and the drive shaft rotates but unfortunately the rear differential does not move I’m attaching a YouTube clip to show what’s going on. Any thoughts or info appreciate. 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

did you look to see if the axles are turning inside the hub and someone just left the keys out of the keyway...ELSE...you got serious differential problem...

[Merle Coggins]

Or a broken axle shaft. 

[kencombs]

can we see both tires at once?  jerks, wiggles etc may provide a clue.

[46windsir]

34 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

did you look to see if the axles are turning inside the hub and someone just left the keys out of the keyway...ELSE...you got serious differential problem...

 

Unfortunately I didn’t check to see if the axles are turning inside I will differently take a look at the keyway , if things don’t look to promising I just may do the Ford Explorer swap , I did manage to locate a 46 Plymouth rear end but not clear if it would be a valid replacement. 

[46windsir]

1 hour ago, kencombs said:

can we see both tires at once?  jerks, wiggles etc may provide a clue.

 

I currently have the pedals disconnected at the master cylinder as soon as I get the pedals back up I’ll test to see if the tires jerk or wiggle . 

[kencombs]

I just noticed in the video that the one tire in view appears to be on the ground.  What is the state of the other? 

[46windsir]

12 hours ago, kencombs said:

I just noticed in the video that the one tire in view appears to be on the ground.  What is the state of the other? 

 

Both tires are on the floor , I’m going to be working on the car tomorrow morning I’ll see if I can take more videos and remove the cover to see what’s going on inside. 

[soth122003]

If I were you, I would drain the pumpkin and see what comes out. If you have metal chunks and dust, well I think you found the problem. Also you can look into the drain plug hole and see what's what.

 

Joe Lee

[Plymouthy Adams]

8 hours ago, 46windsir said:

 

Both tires are on the floor , I’m going to be working on the car tomorrow morning I’ll see if I can take more videos and remove the cover to see what’s going on inside. 

 

unless you have a swapped in rear assembly, there is no removing a cover for inspection.....inspection will entail removing the axles from the carrier, dropping the driveshaft (reference mark if you do this) and removing the pumpkin....this is why the few pointer given may save you from this...no guarantee...but start from the simple stuff that would affect this first...you know, the ones where human error on brake work/assembly may come into play..

[wayfarer]

How did you get the car to its current location? Did it roll on all four w/o issue? Any noise? I know that these gear sets can and do suffer breakage and will lock-up the rear...

Curious to hear of what you find.

[46windsir]

okay so after lifting the car on all four , removing the wheels and removing  cotter pin check out what’s missing . 

 

 

And here’s what I found on the driver side along with metal shavings 

 

 

Here is a clip of me turning the driveshaft by hand  to see if the axles turn 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

surprise surprise...…...

[46windsir]

7 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

surprise surprise...…...

 

You called it out simple stuff first thank you.

 

 I went through the boxes the car came with of extra parts by any chance are these what I’m looking for ?

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

bingo...them be the pups.....WHO LEFT THE DOGS OUT...RUFF RUFF  

 

as this is an interference fit I would carefully polish the tapers on the axle in a manner NOT to remove metal only that may have been forced proud...same with the inner hub surface..do this by placing self adhesive fine sandpaper on the taper...place the drum on and carefully polish.   As it is a taper fit, you only trying here to prevent the two from interlocking with those cuts when torqued down..the keys and the proper torque of 142 minimum ft lb (minimum 140 and max is equal to first slot that will allow cotter to insert) will suffice.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Plymouthy Adams

[46windsir]

18 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

bingo...them be the pups.....WHO LEFT THE DOGS OUT...RUFF RUFF  

 

as this is an interference fit I would carefully polish the tapers on the axle in a manner NOT to remove metal only that may have been forced proud...same with the inner hub surface..do this by placing self adhesive fine sandpaper on the taper...place the drum on and carefully polish.   As it is a taper fit, you only trying here to prevent the two from interlocking with those cuts when torqued down..the keys and the proper torque of 142 minimum ft lb (minimum 140 and max is equal to first slot that will allow cotter to insert) will suffice.

 

AWSOME  !!!! So glad I found the missing keys , perfect thank you for the info going to move forward on this Chrysler ??

[kencombs]

I've had to fix the same issue.  And, had some luck polishing the surfaces by using valve grinding compound.  just apply a little to the axle then slip on the drum/hub and rotate a few turns while holding a little inward pressure.  remove the hub and carefully and completely   remove all the compound.  Left a nice polished, matching surface for me.

[soth122003]

Make sure your keyways fit nice and just a touch snug on the axles. Before putting the hubs on I always put a light dab of grease or anti-sieze on the axles and keyways, then using a rag make sure it is smeared around and then lightly wipe off the excess. This will make it that much easier to remove the hubs next time you have to pull for a brake job or a leaking wheel cylinder. It will also serve as a rust inhibitor.

 

Joe Lee

[kencombs]

9 hours ago, soth122003 said:

Make sure your keyways fit nice and just a touch snug on the axles. Before putting the hubs on I always put a light dab of grease or anti-sieze on the axles and keyways, then using a rag make sure it is smeared around and then lightly wipe off the excess. This will make it that much easier to remove the hubs next time you have to pull for a brake job or a leaking wheel cylinder. It will also serve as a rust inhibitor.

 

Joe Lee

Lots of people do that.  But, it is in direct contrast to the shop manuals' procedure.  Clean and dry with nothing to promote ease of movement.  The tight fit is to retard rotation.  The lube puts all the load on the key instead of the taper fit.

[46windsir]

Got the car moving today thanks for your help all.

 

 

[Andydodge]

Good work!!............life is good when you have a win............lol.............looks like a nice car, I had a 48 Windsor in the late 70's, they were never available thru the normal Oz dealers here, apparently 1 or 2 dozen were specially imported for use by various government heads and departmental ministers and were all black with red Highlander upholstery which mine was.......I lost the storage I had for it so had to sell it and always regretted it as it was in complete going condition tho' not licenced officially to drive tho' when I sold it I delivered it down the main highway in Sydney about 30kms without a problem........lol..........you do stupid things when young & silly.....now just silly.......lol......heres the only pics I ever took of mine, I love the dash in these............welcome aboard from Oz..........Andy Douglas  

[dpollo]

if you have a complete Plymouth rear end you will find that the  axles are the same   all 37 to 48

 

Only the drums and backing plates are different  and the input  shaft flange.....

[keithb7]

Great news! Lots of old engineering that is considered odd today and often misunderstood and overlooked by the current generation. I was worried at the beginning of this thread that you might ask, “is there supposed to be a plug in this hole at the bottom of the diff housing?”

 

I’m certainly wet behind the ears compared to many folks here. Reading, more reading, digesting, more reading. Old musty books are growing in my collection these days. I’m making progress! Many folks today might look at an  axle keyway and think”Huh?”  

[Plymouthy Adams]

these axle keyways continued a few decades forward of mopar dropping them in mid 60's...some very high dollar cars might I add...

[Andydodge]

Keith........we maybe dry behind the ears but don't worry...........lol..........at our age the wetness is just the dribble at the corner of the mouth..........lol.........well at least in my case anyway.............lol........seriously tho' one reason I recommend getting a paper shop manual is so you, me, us......can sit and read it cover to cover and digest it all...........and even after playing with mopar since 1969 its always good to learn something new...........lol..........regards from Oz...............andyd