An Immodest Proposal (with apologies to Jonathan Swift)

[drpreposterous]

Looking for your perspectives, folks.

The first and only time I have ever driven a P-15 was close to 10 years ago.  I test drove a marvelously maintained '47 Special Deluxe sedan. The flathead purred. The three-speed was a joy down Woodward Avenue. I made a bid and lost the Plymmie to someone with deeper pockets. Sigh!

 

I want that experience back on a regular, daily driver basis and hope you vets will tell me this is not wildly illogical.  Here's the drift:

quiet (not rush hour), eight-mile, one-way commute to work three days a week (12 hour shifts as nurse). No freeways--mostly good ol' Woodward Avenue. My concessions to modernity are as follows:

 

--Disc brakes/dual pot MC

--Electronic ignition

--Electric wipers/maybe one of those Vintage Air setups for heat/AC

--12-volt conversion (if necessary/really helpful)

--Radials

--Shoulder belts

 

No illusions about safety or fuel economy even approaching the modern.  But I'm hoping to hear it can be a reliable day tripper.  I intend to undercoat the piss out of it. I do not have the driveway space for a winter Honda (bleh) beater.  And I have Michigan winters to contend with.  Let the commentary commence...with thanks for any input, be it thumbs up or down.  Budget: $12K finished.  Also looking at '49-55s.  Didn't someone writer a tome on one year in a Model A?  I figure the P-15 will put any old Ford to shame.  Big challenge: I'm a wonderful RN with zero wrench experience. Big help:  A Mopar-savvy friend who is, no kidding, at genius level with engine/transmission work.

 

Thank you,

your friendly neighborhood nurse and P-15/D-24 fan,

Brian

 

 

[casper50]

go for it.  Just get a car that has been recently gone over.  Rebuilt engine would be a big +.  On your list I don't see a reason for electronic ignition or 12 volt conversion.  Just me.  The rest I have done to my coupe except for the shoulder belts and all my driving is on country roads.

[Ranger]

Sure, I believe that commute is a very modest request of a daily driver. Especially with the mods you suggest. After all, they were built to be driven. I've used similar rides on a daily basis to and from work for years till distance and speed became a factor. My Plymouth is relegated to drives in the country now as anything slower than 65MPH creates a traffic jam on a drive into the "city." Too many crazies on the main roads. Enjoy your commute!

Also, lacking mechanical experience, I'd find an independent mechanic shop you can trust to check it over from time to time.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Ranger

[knuckleharley]

Looks like a good,and a reasonable,plan to me. I will add that driving a P-15 in modern traffic is likely safer than driving the Honda beater you wrote about because who notices a Honda,and EVERYBODY will notice a P-15 in modern traffic. This means you MIGHT be less likely to get into an accident to start with.

 

I can see the 12 volt conversion since you live in the frozen north and plan on driving it in the winter and it will be parked outside in the cold while you are at work. If it were me,I'd leave the points distributor in it,though. They rarely give trouble,and when they do they are easy to fix right where the car sits. Just carry new points,condenser,distributor cap,and rotor as spare parts in the trunk and you will  have all ignition emergencies covered.

[DrDoctor]

 .

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by DrDoctor

[pflaming]

1 hour ago, DrDoctor said:

   I think your aims are all good, altho’ I’m not sure you’ll be able to accomplish all you want with a budget of $12K. What with your list: - disc brakes/dual reservoir master cylinder, electronic ignition, electric wipers, modern heating/AC, 12-

 

Anyone who can't make  a daily driver out of a late '40's /. Mid 50's mopar is throwing money at foolish choices. This week a no rust, no dents '54 Plymouth Suburban, a completely stock vehicle sold on CL for $1500. 

--Disc brakes/dual pot MC.     $750

--Electronic ignition.                 $150

--Electric wipers.                       $100

--12-volt conversion (if necessary/really helpful). A good kit at $180

--Radials.                                     $800

--Shoulder belts.                        $150

 

Now tell me, where will the other 10K go. Now if an expensive paint job is added, A/C, fancy upholstery, new engine by others, then some $$. Will be spent, but hardly $10K. I've put two dependable '50's mopars back on the road, so I know what can be done. The perfectionists make this hobby far too expensive. IMHE. 

 

My two daily drivers. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by pflaming

[HotRodTractor]

I think your goals are realistic, but like DrDoctor - I think your initial estimate for cost is on the low side especially considering you will be farming out the work. I actually have similar goals to you, except currently a much longer commute (and I'm only aiming for a "fair weather" daily driver) - but I lucked out and pickup a car that had most of the heavy lifting complete on the drivetrain - upgraded flathead, T5 trans, upgraded brakes, etc... I basically just had to wire it up, work out a couple of kinks, and I have to yet put an interior into it.

 

Paul - Those of in the midwest aren't going to pick up anything worth a damn for $1500. In fact that is cheap enough that I probably could have bought it and trucked it across the country and sold it for a profit. For that money we get rusted out junk with no floors and no titles (most of the time).

[pflaming]

I can buy such cars all day long. Last spring I had first dibs on a 1939 Chrysler Royale for $1400. I coiled have cleaned the fuel lines, tuned the engine and driven it home. I nearly cried when I let it go. So maybe I ought to be a buyer for you midwesterners. 

[JerseyHarold]

I'd join the AAA or similar organization that has road service and towing.  One mishap and the membership pays for itself.

[Young Ed]

2 hours ago, pflaming said:

 

Anyone who can't make  a daily driver out of a late '40's /. Mid 50's mopar is throwing money at foolish choices. This week a no rust, no dents '54 Plymouth Suburban, a completely stock vehicle sold on CL for $1500. 

--Disc brakes/dual pot MC.     $750

--Electronic ignition.                 $150

--Electric wipers.                       $100

--12-volt conversion (if necessary/really helpful). A good kit at $180

--Radials.                                     $800

--Shoulder belts.                        $150

 

Now tell me, where will the other 10K go. Now if an expensive paint job is added, A/C, fancy upholstery, new engine by others, then some $$. Will be spent, but hardly $10K. I've put two dependable '50's mopars back on the road, so I know what can be done. The perfectionists make this hobby far too expensive. IMHE. 

 

My two daily drivers. 

keep in mind these things aren't falling out of the trees in the midwest like they are in CA. way back I think in 04 I paid 3K for my very solid but non running p15. 

[DrDoctor]

 .

Edited December 20, 2018 by DrDoctor

[pflaming]

2 hours ago, DrDoctor said:

   A one-color paint job will around $2K minimum, and the interior another $4K minimum (if the car has a back seat, somewhat less if it doesn’t). Electric wipers for $150 (???) – try $400+, and a good wiring harness a with multiple fuse box for $180 (???) – try $350-400 for a good/basic system (I’ve used Ron Francis on 6+ vehicles – great product with NO problems – 6v or 12v). Good quality radial tires, mounted and balanced - $500-600 dollars “out the door“. And, what if it needs a brake job, a muffler and/or exhaust system work, or maybe some front end work, or an alignment??? That = $$$$$.

 

"Electric wipers for $400? Wow I have two on my shelf.  A good wiring harness $350 -  $400? Try EZ wiring, my lit cost $180 and has twice the items I needed. My disc brakes from Rusty Hope and all required totaled about $500 with new lines and dual MC add $100. , new muffler and exhaust installed was $160.  I paid $300 for the station wagon, bought a second for parts @ $300, and a third one with an overdrive for $800. I sold the OD for $900', one rear gate for $400, most of my parts came out of those two cars, oh and a fuel yank for $400, do the math.  But I guess one can buy it all .... well do as best suits you, but I still don't see 10K. 

[HotRodTractor]

25 minutes ago, pflaming said:

 

"Electric wipers for $400? Wow I have two on my shelf.  A good wiring harness $350 -  $400? Try EZ wiring, my lit cost $180 and has twice the items I needed. My disc brakes from Rusty Hope and all required totaled about $500 with new lines and dual MC add $100. , new muffler and exhaust installed was $160.  I paid $300 for the station wagon, bought a second for parts @ $300, and a third one with an overdrive for $800. I sold the OD for $900', one rear gate for $400, most of my parts came out of those two cars, oh and a fuel yank for $400, do the math.  But I guess one can buy it all .... well do as best suits you, but I still don't see 10K. 

 

Those two station wagons would probably be $4000 each here and in much worse shape. Plus - you are doing this work - the original poster already said they weren't a mechanic, so that means little to no tools, and it would take a while to get things going - assuming they don't want to just farm out all the work.

 

We have all the seasons with lots of moisture plus salt on the roads. Things flat out rot into the ground here in short order.

[pflaming]

Ops. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by pflaming

[blue p15]

7 hours ago, pflaming said:

 

"Electric wipers for $400? Wow I have two on my shelf.  A good wiring harness $350 -  $400? Try EZ wiring, my lit cost $180 and has twice the items I needed. My disc brakes from Rusty Hope and all required totaled about $500 with new lines and dual MC add $100. , new muffler and exhaust installed was $160.  I paid $300 for the station wagon, bought a second for parts @ $300, and a third one with an overdrive for $800. I sold the OD for $900', one rear gate for $400, most of my parts came out of those two cars, oh and a fuel yank for $400, do the math.  But I guess one can buy it all .... well do as best suits you, but I still don't see 10K. 

You have electric wipesr for a P15?  Tell me about them. I might want to take one of them off your shelf for you!

[pflaming]

Yes I do. I will test them with a battery and get back to you. Do you need the inside arms also? Well maybe, mine came from a '53 Suburban. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by pflaming

[Adam H P15 D30]

I drive mine all the time, I can't say daily but an average of 2 days per week, rain or shine.  I have about $8K in it not including bartering and trading stuff, it never sees the garage and 50% of the time it lives on the street.  Mostly stock flathead except for a head shave and intake/exhaust mods.  It is my daily when one of my kids come home from college and I loose my pick up and I commute 70 miles per day in San Francisco Bay Area traffic.  This is usually all summer long and a month at Christmas + 1-2 days per week when I just want to drive it.  Your list looks sound and is basically what I did, couple of comments/suggestions on your list:

 

--Disc brakes/dual pot MC - I used Rusty Hope's kit and was very pleased but there is some drilling and tapping involved, still have the single pot MC

--Electronic ignition - DO YOUR HOMEWORK! If you're upgrading to 12v, there are choices out there, some are MUCH more reliable than others!

--Electric wipers/maybe one of those Vintage Air setups for heat/AC - I still have my vacuum wipers but I use a vacuum reservoir, no more issues.

--12-volt conversion (if necessary/really helpful) - YES, I kept the 6v for a year to "keep the faith" but I ran into issues stuck with long idling periods with heater fan and headlights on (traffic)

--Radials 

--Shoulder belts

 

 

Adam

[drpreposterous]

Good, thoughtful replies. Thank you!  I do realize I might be pretty lucky to make this happen on budget.  But it seems to me I see a lot of '53/54 Plymouths in pretty sound shape for darned cheap.  People don't seem to like that vintage as much. I think they look great! I've also seen a fair number of '49-52s for $6k or thererabouts in solid shape; some have been mildly rodded and already have disc brakes and/or a 318 dropped in (no SBCs for me, thank you).  Looking forward to seeing what might work.

[Los_Control]

I see a little back and forth going here, I think we need to read what the op wrote.

"Big challenge: I'm a wonderful RN with zero wrench experience. Big help:  A Mopar-savvy friend who is, no kidding, at genius level with engine/transmission work. "

 

Then look at the wants

19 hours ago, drpreposterous said:

Disc brakes/dual pot MC

--Electronic ignition

--Electric wipers/maybe one of those Vintage Air setups for heat/AC

--12-volt conversion (if necessary/really helpful)

--Radials

--Shoulder belts

 

We are looking for a turn key car, there may be someone here with a car that is ready and they would sell for that amount, maybe not .... not cheap to build a mopar.

 

My neighbor is a nurse, bless his heart, he is a 300 pound teddy bear. Played football in college, left the Marines in 1994, loves hot rods, does not know which end of a wrench to use.

This guys schedule with 12 hour shifts and school to further his education, He is never home, never time to work on anything.

Has a 64 chevy truck that is a bear to keep running, built 350, big cam and headers with his knowledge, last week he called a mechanic because it was out of gas 

He also has a sweet 51 shoebox, beautiful stock repaint and factory interior, modern 302/ auto with overdrive and new rear end. It is a turn key Rod and he paid $7k for it.

Hard to find the same in a mopar.

 

Fords and chubbies, there is more of them and there are more parts available ...... mopars are like kids with a face only parents could love.

[drpreposterous]

38 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Fords and chubbies, there is more of them and there are more parts available ...... mopars are like kids with a face only parents could love.

 

As I suspect is the case with you, this is precisely why I love them...

Edited November 14, 2018 by drpreposterous

[knuckleharley]

5 hours ago, drpreposterous said:

Good, thoughtful replies. Thank you!  I do realize I might be pretty lucky to make this happen on budget.  But it seems to me I see a lot of '53/54 Plymouths in pretty sound shape for darned cheap.  People don't seem to like that vintage as much. I think they look great! I've also seen a fair number of '49-52s for $6k or thererabouts in solid shape; some have been mildly rodded and already have disc brakes and/or a 318 dropped in (no SBCs for me, thank you).  Looking forward to seeing what might work.

I personally have no problems with PROPERLY DONE V-8 swaps,but this is an area where you can seriously get hosed if you don't know what you are looking at. There are always a lot of engine swapped old cars out there for sale because the swap was done half-assed,and nothing works like it should. To make one of these dogs a reliable driver you will have to pull it all out again and start from scratch. This can end up costing you a lot more time and money that if you had just gone ahead and bought a stocker and since you can't do this yourself,pay a pro shop to do the job right for you.

 

And the whole time this is going on,you are spending more money on a car you already paid too much for,and still can't drive it.

 

I highly recommend someone new to the hobby with no mechanical experience/tools/place to work just go ahead and save up enough money to buy a nice one that was done right to start with.

 

And do not buy ANY modified car unless the seller is willing to drive it to a pro-shop and have them do an evaluation on the car as to what it needs done and how much it will cost to make it a daily driver.  Yes,you will almost certainly be the one that has to pay for this evaluation,but paying for an evaluation is a HELL of a lot cheaper than paying for a wrecked hulk that has been slapped back together with junkyard parts to sell.

 

If a modified car is what you want,go ahead and spend the money you need to spend to get a good one after having pros check it out for you.

[Adam H P15 D30]

26 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

And do not buy ANY modified car unless the seller is willing to drive it to a pro-shop and have them do an evaluation on the car as to what it needs done and how much it will cost to make it a daily driver.  Yes,you will almost certainly be the one that has to pay for this evaluation,but paying for an evaluation is a HELL of a lot cheaper than paying for a wrecked hulk that has been slapped back together with junkyard parts to sell.

 

If a modified car is what you want,go ahead and spend the money you need to spend to get a good one after having pros check it out for you.

This makes sense except some of the worst work I have ever seen comes out of these so called "pro shops."  Unless you or your friend (who you trust) knows what to look for, it's a gamble with any car, modified or not.  Sometimes a bigger gamble coming out of a '"pro shop."

[drpreposterous]

yeah, methinks I'll just stick with the sweet ol' flathead!

 

[DrDoctor]

 .

Edited December 20, 2018 by DrDoctor

[Cold Blue]

Mr. DrPreposterous : I am a newby too, to "old" cars - I bought a 48 Plymouth coupe about 6 months ago. It appeared to be in great shape - a no rust body, the undercarriage was rust free too (well, some very light surface rust), and the flathead motor ran great with no smoke. I test drove it, and well, it drove like a John Deere tractor. But it stopped good, shifted good, started good, and it looked good too! The interior was original and in good shape, and it had this gorgeous (to me..) satin blue paint job with ghost flame pin stripping. Good glass, the vacuum wipers worked, and the dash had good chrome. It had been converted to a 12 volt system, the drive shaft and rear chunk had been replaced,  as well as the clutch and pressure plate, and the stainless trim looked nice. I paid $8k for it. I think I did well. 70 year old cars ain't a dime a dozen here in Tennessee!  Especially ones that are rust free, and do not need any body work. 

 

It does need a plethora of little things fixed. I think if I put another $4K in parts in it, it will be what I want it to be - a car that stops almost like my new car, is really reliable, and I wouldn't think twice about headin' out on the highway for a long trip. I am a fair to good mechanic, have drawers and drawers of tools, so the labor of fixing things will be a labor of love. With you having no wrenching experiences (LOL) you can count on some sizable labor costs. (If you can even find a mechanic that has experience working on a really OLD car).

 

I guess I am saying that I agree with DrDoctors and Knuckleharley's  posts that if you want a car that drives like a dream, and is very reliable, find one that has already been gone thru and PROPERLY restored to be in very good condition. You will have to get out your billfold and belly up to the bar for it. I will have about $12K in mine when it's finished to my satisfaction, with NO labor costs. So a budget figure in the mid to high teens seems quite reasonable, to me.