The Great Frame, Sub Frame, IFS Stock, Truck I Beam Debate Thread

[Wiggo]

4 minutes ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Hmmm while interesting History lesson, not sure how this relates to the "Thread Topic"..........LOL

But it would be a great thread topic in "Off Topic.....

 

Have you ever tried changing the front clip on a horse? While jousting?

Edited March 29, 2018 by Wiggo

[knuckleharley]

56 minutes ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Trucks I agree, the Cars, Ma Mopar IFS light years ahead of Ford or Chebby at least pre 49. Heck Ford in the 40s had a front I beam...

I am in the Opinion that Chevy and Ford have there place, just not here.....LOL

No doubt about the Mopar suspension being superior. Not in my mind,anyway. The torsion bar suspension was superior,too. The problems arise when Mopar went Unibody,and there was no chassis to swap to. Ford and GM retained a chassis and suspension ;arge enough in the 70's and early 80's that could be used with the older bodies. I have no interest in doing such a swap because I prefer the ride and feel of the older cars,but if someone wants to put his 50 Chysler body with the rusted out chassis on a 72 or later LTD chassis, that's  his right. It will still look like a 50 Chrysler running down the road,and maybe inspire someone who sees it to find  his own 50 Chrysler to fix and drive,and not even know the one he had seen just had a Chrysler body.

[55 Fargo]

12 minutes ago, Wiggo said:

 

Have you ever tried changing the front clip on a horse? While jousting?

Wiggo, you have great "horse sense".....LOL

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, DrDoctor said:

Knuckleharley,

   I can relate to your VAMC trips. I have to make frequent “pilgrimages” to the VAMC just outside of Philly, Penn. As an agent orange victim, you must’ve been in the Army, or the Marines. Being in the Navy, I wasn’t subjected to that. Warmest personal regards to you.

USASF 68-69 5th SFG,Macv-SOG

[Young Ed]

2 hours ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Trucks I agree, the Cars, Ma Mopar IFS light years ahead of Ford or Chebby at least pre 49. Heck Ford in the 40s had a front I beam...

I am in the Opinion that Chevy and Ford have there place, just not here.....LOL

trucks too. the one late 40s chevy truck my old neighbor owned had round front wheel bearings instead of tapered roller bearings. 

[55 Fargo]

46 minutes ago, Young Ed said:

trucks too. the one late 40s chevy truck my old neighbor owned had round front wheel bearings instead of tapered roller bearings. 

Yes your right, forgot that....

[matt167]

Yeah, Chevy kept ball bearings in the front axles up until 1955 IIRC. The Corvette used a very similar suspension to the '49-'54 passanger car's until 1962. I think the 'Vette did use tapered roller bearings factory though, and there are conversion kits available

[DrDoctor]

Wiggo,

   Great information!!! I didn’t know all of that, but you being from England, you’d certainly know. I lived in post-WWII Germany for 4 years when I was a kid, and we went to England several times. We all really liked it—the people were very nice. I remember some really good times there.

   Now, as for changing the front clip on a horse—while jousting. I’ve never had the occasion of changing the clip on a horse. Further, I’ve never been involved in a jousting match. So, put those 2 activities, and I’m still unskilled at either, and unskilled in both simultaneously.

   Warmest regards to you from this side of “the pond”.

[Gregarious13]

So were the Dodge, Plymouth and Chryslers more expensive than their Chevrolet and Ford counterparts? Or were they just better at the same price point? 

 

Greg

[DrDoctor]

Knuckleharley,

   I DO agree with you about older cars—that their charm springs from the fact that they are old cars, and as such, they handle like old cars. Which, in my opinion, is why driving an old car is like time-travel to a better/kinder/simpler time.

   USAF—I remember seeing, and getting to see the results of, Puff the Magic Dragon. Awesome!!!!! Best and warmest personal regards to you, my brother in arms!!!

[TodFitch]

1 minute ago, Gregarious13 said:

So were the Dodge, Plymouth and Chryslers more expensive than their Chevrolet and Ford counterparts? Or were they just better at the same price point? 

 

Greg

 

It is my understanding that during much of the 1930s Plymouth was a couple dollars more than the comparable Ford or Chevy. I think they thought that having a "Chrysler engineered" car made it desirable enough to price a bit higher. Apparently Plymouths had higher resale values than Ford or Chevy perhaps for the same reason.

[55 Fargo]

On 3/29/2018 at 5:19 PM, DrDoctor said:

Wiggo,

   Great information!!! I didn’t know all of that, but you being from England, you’d certainly know. I lived in post-WWII Germany for 4 years when I was a kid, and we went to England several times. We all really liked it—the people were very nice. I remember some really good times there.

   Now, as for changing the front clip on a horse—while jousting. I’ve never had the occasion of changing the clip on a horse. Further, I’ve never been involved in a jousting match. So, put those 2 activities, and I’m still unskilled at either, and unskilled in both simultaneously.

   Warmest regards to you from this side of “the pond”.

Hey Doc, Im gathering, "Right Hand" driving and now,  "Jousting" intrigues you?

Interesting diversion from the thread topic.

So hopefully this pic will give you pleasure, and a  chuckle, hopefully we can now stabilize this thread, before we all start wanting body armor and Prefect cars......

 

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[Adam H P15 D30]

Rides good, stops good, steering box out of the way, power steering, Ball joint suspension vs. king pin, ride height I wanted without dropped spindles/spring cutting, parts easy to find.

 

[rhelm1953]

Adam,

What Car, Frame, front suspension are we looking at?  At this stage of the build it looks pretty tidy.

[knuckleharley]

19 hours ago, DrDoctor said:

Knuckleharley,

   I DO agree with you about older cars—that their charm springs from the fact that they are old cars, and as such, they handle like old cars. Which, in my opinion, is why driving an old car is like time-travel to a better/kinder/simpler time.

   USAF—I remember seeing, and getting to see the results of, Puff the Magic Dragon. Awesome!!!!! Best and warmest personal regards to you, my brother in arms!!!

Yeah,Puff was the call sign of the C-47's. DUHHHH!

[pflaming]

If my memory serves me correct, the dragon in "Puff the Magic Dragon" was a Mary Jane cigarette.  Flower Child tune.

[Wiggo]

17 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

Yeah,Puff was the call sign of the C-47's. DUHHHH!

 

Oooh, you guys are OLD! The Puff I knew was a C130. Still called in over Iraq and Afghan by those who knew the magic words.

 

(Ex British Army)...

[Adam H P15 D30]

1 hour ago, rhelm1953 said:

Adam,

What Car, Frame, front suspension are we looking at?  At this stage of the build it looks pretty tidy.

47 Plymouth frame,  71 Firebird front clip, Fatman narrow tubular control arms.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Adam H P15 D30

[knuckleharley]

32 minutes ago, Wiggo said:

 

Oooh, you guys are OLD! The Puff I knew was a C130. Still called in over Iraq and Afghan by those who knew the magic words.

 

(Ex British Army)...

The old "flying boxcars" of the 50's were called out of the reserves,and the first to be modified into gun ships. IIRC,it's call sign was "spooky". It was slowly replaced by the C-130 gunships as the old C-47's wore out. I knew the C-130 call sign 30 minutes ago,but can't remember it now for the life of me. The 130's even had a 105mm cannon they fired out the tailgate,and they fired both cannister and HE rounds.

If you have never seen either working at night,you missed a magic show. If you are on a hilltop and they are shooting around you,you can actually FEEL the ground vibrate from all the hits.

Edited March 30, 2018 by knuckleharley

[knuckleharley]

31 minutes ago, Wiggo said:

 

Oooh, you guys are OLD! The Puff I knew was a C130. Still called in over Iraq and Afghan by those who knew the magic words.

 

(Ex British Army)...

Once again,if it ain't broke,don't try to fix it.

[MackTheFinger]

2 hours ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

47 Plymouth frame,  71 Firebird front clip, Fatman narrow tubular control arms.

 

 

 

 

I like it.. I'm considering going that route on my '50 Coronet club coupe, probably an S10 frame section since I have a couple of those rusting away already,,, or maybe just sawing the frame off and building a straight axle stub... Whatever scratches the itch....

[DrDoctor]

Knuckleharley,

   The”Puff” we saw was firing, but we couldn’t hear the shots, only a “whirring”. Later on, we saw what “Puff” had accomplished—there wasn’t even one foot between any bullet strikes. And, the trees—not a leaf on them!!! I’ll bet seeing “Puff” in action at night would’ve been a memorable site to behold. Now that’s what we called “fire power”. Makes one proud to have served, and survived.

  Hmmmmm, I wonder if that’s where Chrysler tagged the name “Fire Power”. Or, maybe not.

 

Wiggo,

   As for old, we’re not old, we’re just “mellowed”, like a fine wine, or a vintage cigar, or a well-cared-for and well-loved old car.

 

Pflaming,

   I think we’re talking about two different “Puff’s”. Altho’ I haven’t heard the term “Mary Jane” since the days of the hippies, and Yes, I do remember the days of the hippies—been there, don’t that, survived it, and grew up. But, there were some good times had back then. Canned Heat, Jethro Tull, etc. . . . . . .

[Andydodge]

Doc.....apologies for the late reply as I've been away.........not sure about the Gm/Ford suspension swap as by the time you'd have modified things it may have been just as easy to do a straight front clip...........here in Oz frame clips can be very hard to get registered so are not that common...............andyd 

[DrDoctor]

Andy,

   No need to apologize, my friend. Question, tho’—why is it problematic to register a car that’s had a frame clip? Is it that way with any car? When I was in hi-school, and undergrad school, I worked at a shop that built dragsters and funny cars (‘60’s and ‘70’s), as well as custom work. We often took two different brands of frames and blended them together without any problems, legally or failures. If anything, we went overkill to make sure the ‘new’ frame was safe. I was also the body shop manager at a Datsun dealership (see, I’m  o-l-d . . .), and on severe wrecks of pickup trucks, we’d take another decent frame and put the two together to get one good one.

[BigDaddyO]

On 3/30/2018 at 4:14 PM, pflaming said:

If my memory serves me correct, the dragon in "Puff the Magic Dragon" was a Mary Jane cigarette.  Flower Child tune.

 

Listen to the Real Story Behind 'Puff the Magic Dragon'

BY Michele Debczak

April 26, 2016

 

 

A song about the adventures of a magical dragon sounds innocent enough, but like many songs written in the '60s, "Puff the Magic Dragon" is regarded by many as a metaphor for drug use. Perhaps this video from Great Big Story will finally put those rumors to bed.

According to the song's lyricist Lenny Lipton, the idea was inspired by Ogden Nash's children's poem "The Tale of Custard the Dragon." The same day he read the poem, Lipton went over to a friend's house and felt compelled to sit down in front of their typewriter and start writing. The poem he wrote would eventually be used as the lyrics for Peter, Paul and Mary's hit song.

Both Leonard Lipton and lead singer Peter Yarrow have stated "Puff the Magic Dragon is not about drugs." ... He has also said of the song that it "never had any meaning other than the obvious one" and is about the "loss of innocence in children", and dismissed the suggestion of association with drugs as "sloppy research".