Sbc in 50 plymouth

[Pushrod Scott]

So as per my last post I got it pretty good for suggesting putting a Chevy in my 50. I personally am not fond of the idea,  but sometimes you use what you have and what you can afford. A year ago I was thinking about putting my 270 Hemi in as was stated by someone else in the previous post,  but it was recommended when I was asking questions then,  that I not do it because of the amount of work it would take.  It was recommended I stay with the 6 banger. I looked into the cost of rebuilding the 6, and it was a lot more than what I really can afford to spend on a non necessary vehicle right now or at that time. I just don't want this car to sit and rot.  I really got very little help in that post a year ago but I did get a lot of opinion. Hopefully some will be happy with my decision,  but I posted my issue on another site and a very good friend spoke up and has a 318 that has been built with only 58k on it and will sell it to me at a great price. Another friend has done this swap,  so I have someone to ask if I run into problems. I did not mean to offend anyone! Was never my point.  Just wanted to keep my old 50 going down the road!

[Plymouthy Adams]

on the average dropping any ancient technology like the 270 hemi or the carbureted sbc is not any harder than the other......you will need time, tools, shop space and fabrication skills along with the knowledge of how each component works within a system that makes up the general vehicle.   I gather from reading this that the gist of the post is that you are looking for a "paint by  number" procedure and copying another persons step for step could make it easy if they documented it...it the documentation that I think you will not readily find here....as stated by others and certainly not a position to run anyone from these pages...but you search may be better served on the site known as the hamb...lots of that type mismatching done over there....and why you were directed that way.  

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, Pushrod Scott said:

So as per my last post I got it pretty good for suggesting putting a Chevy in my 50. I personally am not fond of the idea,  but sometimes you use what you have and what you can afford. A year ago I was thinking about putting my 270 Hemi in as was stated by someone else in the previous post,  but it was recommended when I was asking questions then,  that I not do it because of the amount of work it would take.  It was recommended I stay with the 6 banger. I looked into the cost of rebuilding the 6, and it was a lot more than what I really can afford to spend on a non necessary vehicle right now or at that time. I just don't want this car to sit and rot.  I really got very little help in that post a year ago but I did get a lot of opinion. Hopefully some will be happy with my decision,  but I posted my issue on another site and a very good friend spoke up and has a 318 that has been built with only 58k on it and will sell it to me at a great price. Another friend has done this swap,  so I have someone to ask if I run into problems. I did not mean to offend anyone! Was never my point.  Just wanted to keep my old 50 going down the road!

Listen its your car, your cash, your choice as your the boss.

Dont expect the masses on here to warm up too much on your SBC swap.

Myself quite frankly dont care its not my car.

Some happy with your decision?, how about that someone be you, cuz thats what counts.

Yes a rebuild of a flathead 6 aint cheap but swapping in a V8 has its hidden and unexpected expenses too.

The best source of support on this project is this, those who have successfully done the swap, have or still drive the car or truck.

There are all kinds of armchair advisors on here, some have done these swaps and some start or never finish them.

Some are still doing V8 or V6 swaps and have been doing them for years and the cars are never on the road, there never finished.

Just remember its a Mopar Site dedicated to the Great Flathead engines and most on here support that idea only.

I have no trouble with your ideas just follow through to completion, dont be a great starter and become a poor finisher. Don't be that type of guy!

All the best and good luck.

Edited March 14, 2018 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[Frank Elder]

I don't think you offended anyone personally ........us true blue mopar guys have sensitivity issues over transplanting the heartbeat of America into our beloved Chrysler products.....lol. Good luck with your decision, whatever it is.

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, Pushrod Scott said:

..... Hopefully some will be happy with my decision,  but I posted my issue on another site and a very good friend spoke up and has a 318 that has been built with only 58k on it and will sell it to me at a great price. Another friend has done this swap,  so I have someone to ask if I run into problems.

I personally would prefer the 318 over the 350,but screw me and everybody else. YOUR opinion is the only one that matters because it is your car,your money,and your time that is going to get spent on the car.

[maok]

If your main concern with the rebuild of the flat head is 'money' then that concern should still be there with an engine swap. Because you have the sbc and box doesn't mean it will be a cheap or an easy install.

 

The best budget option would be to find a good running flat head. This would also be the fastest way of getting your Plymouth/Dodge on the road.

[Los_Control]

I just wanted to thank you for saving the car, rather see it on the road with a sbc then in the scrap yard.

Seems to me that a early 283 with the horseshoe mount would be dead simple, but any year sbc the mounts would not be difficult to fabricate.

I think your big issue may be clearance with the steering box.

That is where you need to research and see what others have done with the exhaust or even moving the box.

Once you start getting into custom exhaust headers and or moving the steering box, A inline six could look like a good alternative.

Either way, I like the idea of the sbc if I wanted to make a highway cruiser, I personally prefer a flathead to haul my arse to the lumber store and back.

All about choices. ... I hope you make a build thread and keep us updated, always good to have some excitement around here 

 

Forgot to add, check clearances with the brake, clutch pedals mounted under the cab, just keep it in mind.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Los_Control

[55 Fargo]

26 minutes ago, maok said:

If your main concern with the rebuild of the flat head is 'money' then that concern should still be there with an engine swap. Because you have the sbc and box doesn't mean it will be a cheap or an easy install.

 

The best budget option would be to find a good running flat head. This would also be the fastest way of getting your Plymouth/Dodge on the road.

A good option, but easier said than done in many cases.

[maok]

10 minutes ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

A good option, but easier said than done in many cases.

IMHO, so is an engine swap.

[Wiggo]

Well, look, I'm another heretic because by the time I bought my Bodge D20, someone had already dropped a 350 SBC/TH350 in there. It works. Man, is it ugly in places, though, and given the time and money I'd prefer to drop a hemi in, but I'll run what I've got for now. And it's been properly butchered...

 

 

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, maok said:

IMHO, so is an engine swap.

Yes your right, especially if you are not experienced in a swap.

The HAMB is a wealth of info on this topic.

Finding a good running flathead 6 is still doable and sometimes we get lucky.

If he so chooses the find a decent flattie is anyone on here near the OP that has 1 for sale?

Running an ad on your local " buy and sells", Craiglist, or Kijiji wanting 1 might turn up 1.

At any rate its work and money involved.

Many engine transplants on these cars have been done over the years.

I have seen a ton of these threads over the years with the same advice and reactions.

OP your car, you decide on which way to go and make it work for you...

 

[Wiggo]

5 minutes ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Yes your right, especially if you are not experienced in a swap.

The HAMB is a wealth of info on this topic.

Finding a good running flathead 6 is still doable and sometimes we get lucky.

If he so chooses the find a decent flattie is anyone on here near the OP that has 1 for sale?

Running an ad on your local " buy and sells", Craiglist, or Kijiji wanting 1 might turn up 1.

At any rate its work and money involved.

Many engine transplants on these cars have been done over the years.

I have seen a ton of these threads over the years with the same advice and reactions.

OP your car, you decide on which way to go and make it work for you...

 

Yeah, but from the original thread, he's already got an SBC and TH350 ready to go. Unless someone wants to swap them for a ready to run Mopar flattie can't you just point him in the right direction? 

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, Wiggo said:

Well, look, I'm another heretic because by the time I bought my Bodge D20, someone had already dropped a 350 SBC/TH350 in there. It works. Man, is it ugly in places, though, and given the time and money I'd prefer to drop a hemi in, but I'll run what I've got for now. And it's been properly butchered...

 

 

Heretic, Schmeretic, the car is running and you are driving it.

I have owned plenty of SBC powered vehicles nothing wrong them with.

I still like 283 engines and owned at least 6.

Your car is fine run it and enjoy doing brakies and burnouts..

[55 Fargo]

6 minutes ago, Wiggo said:

Yeah, but from the original thread, he's already got an SBC and TH350 ready to go. Unless someone wants to swap them for a ready to run Mopar flattie can't you just point him in the right direction? 

Well then if thats what he has and wants to do then " heave ho"

Good on him, get er done.

Whichever way aint my decision I'm reckoning...

 

[maok]

@Wiggo Maybe you could list all the required work that has been done to yours to make the SBC&th350 work on your car. This will give Scott some idea of what is required for the swap.

[Wiggo]

13 minutes ago, maok said:

@Wiggo Maybe you could list all the required work that has been done to yours to make the SBC&th350 work on your car. This will give Scott some idea of what is required for the swap.

Well, it's a different car and chassis, but I'm happy to share the 'Bodge' moments where I can... Maybe a job for tomorrow. 

[Busted_Knuckles]

I came across the same issues when I posted my thoughts about the same swap and got the same negativity, keep it all original 6 cyl bla bla bla well my car came with a Chevy 6 cylinder so much for originality. My frame was also rotted in key places and I condemned it  and decided on going with an S10 chassis mainly because of the cost factor and modern upgrades etc. I am going with a 4 speed behind my 355 SBC, why because I have a fresh one ready to go, just waiting on some pieces to come back from powder coat so I can do a final assemble, right now there is a mock up block resting in the frame. The great thing about the SBC is A its cost B everyone makes mounts, oil pans, headers etc. anything you may need for your swap. The ease of my choice of chassis is everything is the same as an 87 Camaro so if I want four wheel disc brakes I can shop for the best deal. One thing I will tell you is that it's not as bolt in as some say by that I mean you may encounter firewall clearance issues so I suggest removing the front clip even with a stock frame so you have plenty of room to maneuver and work in places that are normally not as accessible. Key things to remember are you need 4 degrees of down angle on the rear of the engine and four degrees of up angle on the rear end so you don't experience U joint binding. Speaking of rear ends if you are planning on using a stock P15 rear axle again limitations are the key factors.only two gear ratios were ever available and their tall like most old cars because those old cinder block 90hp 6 bangers didn't develop enough rpm's and torque to get them down the road so they had to make it up in gear ratio. So if you want to cruise on the highway and go places consider changing out the rear end. I did my research and I believe Butch's Cool Stuff (but don't quote me on that just yet) has a chart to tell you what fits what when it comes to swapping rear axles I was going with a rear from a Tri Five chevy which would have been an easy swap if you choose the route I planned. PM me anytime and I'll be glad to help u anyway I can

[maok]

Don't get me wrong, I have no issues with people modifying their cars, after all it's their car to do what they like. But @Pushrod Scott mentioned that his budget was limited (probably not as limited as mine), and he didn't want his car to sit around accumulating rust. So my comments were about doing it at a budget and a reasonable time frame. IMHO, best option would be a good running flat head for that car. Finding one might take upto 12 months, but once you find one, its a weekend swap over. What would a good running flathead cost, $1k?

 

What would it cost to do the SBC & TH350 swap? $2k? $4k?  And if you are doing it yourself with limited experience, how long would it take?

Edited March 14, 2018 by maok
grammar

[knuckleharley]

11 minutes ago, maok said:

Don't get me know, I have no issues with people modifying their cars, after all it's their car to do what they like. But @Pushrod Scott mentioned that his budget was limited (probably not as limited as mine), and he didn't want his car to sit around accumulating rust. So my comments were about doing it at a budget and a reasonable time frame. IMHO, best option would be a good running flat head for that car. Finding one might take upto 12 months, but once you find one, its a weekend swap over. What would a good running flathead cost, $1k?

 

What would it cost to do the SBC & TH350 swap? $2k? $4k?  And if you are doing it yourself with limited experience, how long would it take?

More importantly,has ANYONE ever made a swap and came in under budget? I have a hard time rebuilding stock stuff and staying on budget. Every damn thing I try to do costs me more money than I was planning on spending.

[55 Fargo]

33 minutes ago, Busted_Knuckles said:

I came across the same issues when I posted my thoughts about the same swap and got the same negativity, keep it all original 6 cyl bla bla bla well my car came with a Chevy 6 cylinder so much for originality. My frame was also rotted in key places and I condemned it  and decided on going with an S10 chassis mainly because of the cost factor and modern upgrades etc. I am going with a 4 speed behind my 355 SBC, why because I have a fresh one ready to go, just waiting on some pieces to come back from powder coat so I can do a final assemble, right now there is a mock up block resting in the frame. The great thing about the SBC is A its cost B everyone makes mounts, oil pans, headers etc. anything you may need for your swap. The ease of my choice of chassis is everything is the same as an 87 Camaro so if I want four wheel disc brakes I can shop for the best deal. One thing I will tell you is that it's not as bolt in as some say by that I mean you may encounter firewall clearance issues so I suggest removing the front clip even with a stock frame so you have plenty of room to maneuver and work in places that are normally not as accessible. Key things to remember are you need 4 degrees of down angle on the rear of the engine and four degrees of up angle on the rear end so you don't experience U joint binding. Speaking of rear ends if you are planning on using a stock P15 rear axle again limitations are the key factors.only two gear ratios were ever available and their tall like most old cars because those old cinder block 90hp 6 bangers didn't develop enough rpm's and torque to get them down the road so they had to make it up in gear ratio. So if you want to cruise on the highway and go places consider changing out the rear end. I did my research and I believe Butch's Cool Stuff (but don't quote me on that just yet) has a chart to tell you what fits what when it comes to swapping rear axles I was going with a rear from a Tri Five chevy which would have been an easy swap if you choose the route I planned. PM me anytime and I'll be glad to help u anyway I can

Thats all great BN.

Your car had been worked over and engine gone etc.

So why not engine swap or even frame swap. 

Negativity on this topic, yes you will find a large majority on this site want stock flathead drivetrains.

Heck why wouldn't they, this web forum was created to promote the flathead 6 engine.

While they tolerate and even welcome modifications, expect not to have SBC transplants overly warmly welcomed.

Its like on the HAMB cars newer than 1964 and other topics that are off topic or against the website rules Ryan will lock or delete at the drop of a hat.

This site is pretty tolerant on V8 swaps, mods made with modern non mopar parts etc.

But its still a Mopar flathead 6 forum at the end of the day.

People can build and modify their cars as they choose and see fit. Just don't expect to get everyone agreeing with your choices, your likes and dislikes.

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[Adam H P15 D30]

5 hours ago, Pushrod Scott said:

So as per my last post I got it pretty good for suggesting putting a Chevy in my 50. I personally am not fond of the idea,  but sometimes you use what you have and what you can afford. A year ago I was thinking about putting my 270 Hemi in as was stated by someone else in the previous post,  but it was recommended when I was asking questions then,  that I not do it because of the amount of work it would take.  It was recommended I stay with the 6 banger. I looked into the cost of rebuilding the 6, and it was a lot more than what I really can afford to spend on a non necessary vehicle right now or at that time. I just don't want this car to sit and rot.  I really got very little help in that post a year ago but I did get a lot of opinion. Hopefully some will be happy with my decision,  but I posted my issue on another site and a very good friend spoke up and has a 318 that has been built with only 58k on it and will sell it to me at a great price. Another friend has done this swap,  so I have someone to ask if I run into problems. I did not mean to offend anyone! Was never my point.  Just wanted to keep my old 50 going down the road!

Good read here. Falconvan did an LS swap and had a very detailed thread on his build.     He did a top notch job on this car.

He also did a swap on a 49 coupe. Started with an SHO motor but ended up with a small block later. Another top notch build

Remember, there only needs to be 1 perfect example of a stocker. The rest can be hotrodded.  

[Busted_Knuckles]

5 minutes ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Thats all great BN.

Your car had been worked over and engine gone etc.

So why not engine swap or even frame swap. 

Negativity on this topic, yes you will find a large majority on this site want stock flathead drivetrains.

Heck why wouldn't they, this web forum was created to promote the flathead 6 engine.

While they tolerate and even welcome modifications, expect not to have SBC transplants overly warmly welcomed.

Its like on the HAMB cars newer than 1964 and other topics that are off topic or against the website rules Ryan will lock or delete at the drop of a hat.

This site is pretty tolerant on V8 swaps, mods made with modern non mopar parts etc.

But its still a Mopar flathead 6 forum at the end of the day.

People can build and modify their cars as they choose and see fit. Just don't expect to get everyone agreeing with your choices, your likes and dislikes.

 

I looked into A: finding a stock frame and the only decent one without inspecting it was in Texas so shipping was cost prohibitive, B: I was offered a 6 cyl for free with a transmission but after looking into to rebuild cost of parts alone exceeded the cost of parts for two SBC engines C: Reliability/parts availability I drive everything I build and not to just the local cruise nights but to major events across the country so I'm in Salina Kansas let's say and a fuel pump gives up the ghost what's the likelihood of a local NAPA or O'Reilly etc. having a pump on the shelf for a 1948 6cyl Plymouth vs a SBC. D: Upgrading in technology IE: disc brakes ride and handling stock 48 chassis vs S10 to upgrade the 48 P15 chassis to disc brakes, R&P steering, better ride(shock modification) having a set of ring & pinion gears cut for the P!5 would be astronomical vs using an S10 all off the shelf components at a fraction of the cost. I helped a friend swap  his body on to a Dakota chassis and he admitted it was a far better way to go in his opinion and that seeing the cost of what he has put out of pocket vs what I've spent the S10 was far more economical the S10 was the better choice.  All that being said I got a lot more negative feedback than positive. One is not just limited by his choices of what's available when building a car today but also by whats affordable the SBC for me is the most affordable way to go and thats coming from a guy with a running 392 & 426 Hemi sitting under a workbench in his shop. I put it all out on paper and crunched the numbers so many times I wore holes in the paper, like it or not the SBC is a far more economical, powerful reliable engine than the flat Plymouth 6 

[55 Fargo]

3 minutes ago, Busted_Knuckles said:

 

I looked into A: finding a stock frame and the only decent one without inspecting it was in Texas so shipping was cost prohibitive, B: I was offered a 6 cyl for free with a transmission but after looking into to rebuild cost of parts alone exceeded the cost of parts for two SBC engines C: Reliability/parts availability I drive everything I build and not to just the local cruise nights but to major events across the country so I'm in Salina Kansas let's say and a fuel pump gives up the ghost what's the likelihood of a local NAPA or O'Reilly etc. having a pump on the shelf for a 1948 6cyl Plymouth vs a SBC. D: Upgrading in technology IE: disc brakes ride and handling stock 48 chassis vs S10 to upgrade the 48 P15 chassis to disc brakes, R&P steering, better ride(shock modification) having a set of ring & pinion gears cut for the P!5 would be astronomical vs using an S10 all off the shelf components at a fraction of the cost. I helped a friend swap  his body on to a Dakota chassis and he admitted it was a far better way to go in his opinion and that seeing the cost of what he has put out of pocket vs what I've spent the S10 was far more economical the S10 was the better choice.  All that being said I got a lot more negative feedback than positive. One is not just limited by his choices of what's available when building a car today but also by whats affordable the SBC for me is the most affordable way to go and thats coming from a guy with a running 392 & 426 Hemi sitting under a workbench in his shop. I put it all out on paper and crunched the numbers so many times I wore holes in the paper, like it or not the SBC is a far more economical, powerful reliable engine than the flat Plymouth 6 

I know all about the SBC BN.

More reliable? Lets agree to disagree on that point. The flathead was not only used in cars and trucks but in Industrial applications for many many years they are deadnuts reliable.

SBC more powerful? Okay fine GM needed 2 extra pistons and a V block to do it as the 216 snd 235 Stovebolts certainly couldn't. Your comparing apples to pineapples.

On your economic protestations SBC is cheapest, parts aftermarket stuff etc

Most guys on here are not concerned with that, as they want stock or nearly stock setups.

Hey you can build as you see fit no problem there. Just know most on here like and prefer stock engines and chassis.

 

 

[maok]

24 minutes ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

Good read here. Falconvan did an LS swap and had a very detailed thread on his build.     He did a top notch job on this car.

He also did a swap on a 49 coupe. Started with an SHO motor but ended up with a small block later. Another top notch build

Remember, there only needs to be 1 perfect example of a stocker. The rest can be hotrodded.  

Th 1949 Busy Coupe update thread will be a good indicator of the time and effort required to doing the swap. It took 3 years.

[MackTheFinger]

I saw Falconvan's coupe before it was finished and it was already very nice.. Really nice guy, too!!