motor choice question

[austinsailor]

I need to make a motor decision about my 48 B1B.  I'll bet you guys have some thoughts.

 

Bought this thing maybe 5 years ago, at that time the engine had 35 lbs of compression. I soaked things, finally got it started and drove it occassionally until about 18 months ago. A bit finicky to start, but did ok and was pretty reliable.  I've thought about changing motors before, but today I tried to start it again after it sitting for these 18 months. Started by pulling it, but haven't gotten it to start yet with the starter. Fresh gas and a good tuneup would probably get it going again, but it's time. Did a compression check shortly after shutting it off. 5 at 45 lbs, 1 at 35 lbs. It's time.

 

I'm going out and pulling the motor tonight, but I haven't decided what to put in. I have 4 choices, give me thoughts.

 

51  Plymouth 218 motor, fresh overhaul, never started.  Basically a new long block.

 

52 Dodge car 230 motor. Came out of a 57 Dodge panel truck, they were driving it, wanted a v8. They tried to tell me it was the original motor, but they had no idea. Supposed to be running fine when removed.

 

265 Chrysler. Taken out of a hot rod when the shop was going to put in a big v8. Was running and driving fine when removed.  Now, a question on this one. It appears I can move the radiator forward easily. I know on the cars you must cut a chunk out of the frame for the pulleys, but I don't see a problem in the b1b. It looks like moving the radiator, and welding tabs on the motor mounts might get it. Not sure about putting the truck front mount on the block yet, I need to get it down and study it.

 

4th motor is still an unknown I'm still trying to remember where it came from. Car motor with tranny still attached, but it baffles me where I got it.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated. For now, I'm off to the shop to yank the old one out.

Edited February 12, 2018 by austinsailor

[59bisquik]

I’m gonna have to vote for the 265. Sounds like the best choice and only a few mods to get it to fit. 

[NiftyFifty]

265 all day! Run as much hp as you can get without sacrificing the flathead look if that's what your after, it's no more or less reliable then the other choices, but at least starts out with a few more ponies for highway use.

[austinsailor]

Well, thought I would get farther tonight, but rusty bolts removing the front slowed me down.

 

It also occurred to me that whatever choice I make I'll have to switch pans and oil pickup going from car to truck.  Maybe not the one that came out of the 57 dodge panel, though. It's in my loft and I haven't checked it yet.

 

I also found that the bracket that holds the radiator frame, therefore the whole front end, is broken and nearly falling off! Since riviting it back isn't an option, I think I'll weld it to the frame in it's correct position.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the top rivets look intact with just the metal broken due to the stress of the lower rivets being worked and now loose fitting.  The rivets I would remove and later replace with #8 hardware, #5 is acceptable, then yes weld the upper bracket.  I would tack the corners back on....complete the weld with caution to not damage the holes.  (tack the outer edge first) Then grind tack weld smooth, match the holes with a fabricate plate fabricated of like thickness and shape of the bracket and weld it in place.  Finish the welding process from backside of the original bracket at the tabs and use the top plate holes as a guide to clean up the weld around the original holes.  This should eliminate any chance of weakened metal on the original bracket ears and carry the weight of the doghouse for years to come.

 

OR....if original looks is not a concern, cut across the bracket at the broken ears, weld a flat piece of new metal, mark and drill holes, bolt in place...

 

OR cut a piece with ears...cut across the bracket and weld in place, bolt back onto the vehicle.  

 

All will get the job done, just what work you want to do is the real option.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Plymouthy Adams

[48Dodger]

I've never seen that before.....and I've seen a fair number of frames!

I guess I need to remember to look for hidden cracks on that there bracket before I sell/give away another frame.

 

48D 

[NiftyFifty]

My bracket was cracked across the top as well on my truck, the bottom rivets were still good and no real major stretching, so a few whacks and a little weld later and it's good as new.  

[Merle Coggins]

My front support bracket looked pretty much the same. I welded it up and haven't had any issues so far.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Merle Coggins

[Dodgeb4ya]

265 IMO is the only choice! Way more smooth  power.

I put one in my PU over 40 years ago and it's still going..

As I recall I just moved the radiator forward in the original non replaced yoke and bolted it to the back side of some of the "D" nuts.

I'm going to have to go out and look at the truck to make sure of that. Been a long time.

I also used a rosebud and stretched out the front frame for the 265 crankshaft damper. 

Edited February 12, 2018 by Dodgeb4ya

[NiftyFifty]

All of this moving rad stuff has me thinking....I just ordered a new rad from U.S. radiator...I wonder if it will now have the wrong brackets for my 25” 251?  Too late now, already shipped....or is it the cradle that is different for the shorter block?

[Dodgeb4ya]

The truck radiator supports are all the same for 1948-52 1/2 thru 1 ton trucks.... (B,C and D models) using the 23" engines.

The 25" truck engine radiator supports are all the same for 1948-53 1-1/2 thru 2-1/2 ton trucks.... not sure whats different between either support though.

I think everyone uses the stock support that came with their truck or car doing these longer engine swaps.

[austinsailor]

I have a 49 3/4 ton frame out back. I should check it. Hadn't thought about that. Thanks.

[Dodgeb4ya]

The truck front sump oil pan on the 25" engine going into a truck is an issue too...here's mine I did in 74...I was young so don't beat me on it... it has worked for many years....

I will fix it soon after retirement. Going to pull the engine.... fix the oil pan clearance issue and re-paint the engine and transmission.

The frame front cross member where it's riveted will need to be carefully rolled over and down with a blue tip. Then the pan artfully  reshaped at the same area for 1/2 -3/4" clearance..

.not as easy to do to make it look like a factory job but can and will be done.

[austinsailor]

Looked at the 52 dodge 230 that came out of a truck. It has the truck linkage, so it most likely did live in a truck last. But - it still has the front sump si I don't know how it worked.

 

Bottom line decision, is, I'll use the new 218. I'll save the 265 for my 40 dodge car, most likely.  Any of them have to have the pan pulled and pickup and pan changed. If the 52 dodge 230 had not needed that I might have gone with the somewhat unkown motor.

 

I do have an NOS set of 3.56 ring and pinion gears I'll probably put in so It'll cruise a little easier. That will be a seperate project later.

 

I'll have to say, removing everything took maybe 3-4 times as long as I expected. Everything was much more difficult to remove than I expected. Even things like the pin in the brake linkage was a bear. Had to get the torch out to get it out. Of course, I had to fix the torch hose end, everything was difficult. The darned Cleveland ujoint, which I've had before, was also a bear. Just a darned pain in the butt all around. Couldn't get the brake pedal out wihtout removing the steering column. It just goes on.

[Mike36]

12 hours ago, austinsailor said:

Looked at the 52 dodge 230 that came out of a truck. It has the truck linkage, so it most likely did live in a truck last. But - it still has the front sump si I don't know how it worked.

 

Bottom line decision, is, I'll use the new 218. I'll save the 265 for my 40 dodge car, most likely.  Any of them have to have the pan pulled and pickup and pan changed. If the 52 dodge 230 had not needed that I might have gone with the somewhat unkown motor.

 

I do have an NOS set of 3.56 ring and pinion gears I'll probably put in so It'll cruise a little easier. That will be a seperate project later.

 

I'll have to say, removing everything took maybe 3-4 times as long as I expected. Everything was much more difficult to remove than I expected. Even things like the pin in the brake linkage was a bear. Had to get the torch out to get it out. Of course, I had to fix the torch hose end, everything was difficult. The darned Cleveland ujoint, which I've had before, was also a bear. Just a darned pain in the butt all around. Couldn't get the brake pedal out wihtout removing the steering column. It just goes on.

Hang in there Sailor! There’s calm seas ahead!!!

[55 Fargo]

On 2/12/2018 at 10:43 AM, Dodgeb4ya said:

265 IMO is the only choice! Way more smooth  power.

I put one in my PU over 40 years ago and it's still going..

As I recall I just moved the radiator forward in the original non replaced yoke and bolted it to the back side of some of the "D" nuts.

I'm going to have to go out and look at the truck to make sure of that. Been a long time.

I also used a rosebud and stretched out the front frame for the 265 crankshaft damper. 

Bob, Im hoping a fresh rebuilt 265 going into my Fargo is a noticeable power difference over my good running but very tired 228.

You did this so long ago and its still going great on you, Man 1974 is so long ago......

[Blue]

21 hours ago, austinsailor said:

Looked at the 52 dodge 230 that came out of a truck. It has the truck linkage, so it most likely did live in a truck last. But - it still has the front sump si I don't know how it worked.

 

Bottom line decision, is, I'll use the new 218. I'll save the 265 for my 40 dodge car, most likely.  Any of them have to have the pan pulled and pickup and pan changed. If the 52 dodge 230 had not needed that I might have gone with the somewhat unkown motor.

 

I do have an NOS set of 3.56 ring and pinion gears I'll probably put in so It'll cruise a little easier. That will be a seperate project later.

 

I'll have to say, removing everything took maybe 3-4 times as long as I expected. Everything was much more difficult to remove than I expected. Even things like the pin in the brake linkage was a bear. Had to get the torch out to get it out. Of course, I had to fix the torch hose end, everything was difficult. The darned Cleveland ujoint, which I've had before, was also a bear. Just a darned pain in the butt all around. Couldn't get the brake pedal out wihtout removing the steering column. It just goes on.

Any idea what speeds you will get with  3.56 gears?

[austinsailor]

It'll go as fast as I'd care to go!  50 is about it now, I'm sure 70 will be easily attainable, but 60 is probably my comfort level.

[austinsailor]

Got to spend about half the day on it. Stripped both motors, ran parts through the engine washer (damn, I love that thing!) got the oil pickups and pan changed and swapped the pulleys. (Truck was wide, new motor was narrow.)

 

All 4 bolts holding the manifolds together are broken. Pondered a bit over how to best fix that and it struck me - I have a parts truck that may have good set. I'll pull them tomorrow. Considered just putting on a set of cast Fenton headers I have, but then I'd be off building a new dual exhaust. It can get out of control if you let it. This was supposed to be a simple motor swap.

 

Motor mount is shot - found a good one on a motor on the shelf. I knew there was a reason I've collected all this stuff!

 

A friend with a machine shop gave me the gaskets I need. Thought I might have to wait on UPS.

 

this 2 day project is already 2 days, probably take 2 more to finish.

[Young Ed]

You can usually cut a screw driver slot in the stub of the broken bolt and then use lots of heat to get them out. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

the average projects moves at a pretty good clip but once the finish line appears before your eyes, it seems like forever crossing that line...

[NiftyFifty]

Just a follow up on my hijack post before...got my new rad...no way will it fit with the brackets they installed...so anyone switching to a 25" block or that needs a new radiator with a stock Canadian truck like mine...your going to have to cut and weld your own brackets on.  Not what I wanted to do with my Saturday honestly

[austinsailor]

Had my phone ready as I started it the first time. Notice, when I get the choke adjusted, how sweet it sounds.  Here it is:

 

https://youtu.be/VdkFXg0A_FU

Edited February 19, 2018 by austinsailor