1953 Chrysler Brakes Rebuild Thread

[keithb7]

Hi folks, my '53 Chrysler Windsor is in for the winter. Current project is brakes. Full tear down, inspection, repair where needed, reassembly and set up.

First off, this puller worked very well. I was able to get the drum off turning the threads by hand. No hammer required.

First brake assembly is apart. Cylinder is disassembled. My first question is, how well do these wheel cylinders and brake system, take to a light hone?

In this end, there is some smudging. I cannot feel it with my fingernail. I was wondering if it may just be rubber residue from the piston seal. Would a light hone be sufficient? 

Other end, same cylinder:

I will access all cylinders and put together a parts list. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by keithb7

[DJ194950]

Try a light honing and measure bore if it all cleans up. Compare to stock bore specs. Go from results. Get the relined with stainless steel if they don't clean up or buy Chinese replacements or NOS/NORS if found.

Best of luck,

DJ

 

Edited November 5, 2017 by DJ194950
spelling

[jiffyjet1011]

why take a chance with worn out cylinders that have probably been rebuilt 10 times. buy new cylinders its the most important part of your cars mechanics! 

[keithb7]

Yummy. We have brake-soup brewing in the front lower cylinder.  Upper front was seized in place. I'm curious, does the water end up in the lowest part of the brake system naturally? As water is heavier than oil. The front upper cylinder was clean. Lower has the rusty water.

 

[desoto1939]

Buy NOS if you can. These are avilable but do not buy Japna or Chinese stuff. If these are the originals Wheel cylinderrs and they look like they are.  I have a 39 Desoto so they would be the same.  If they can not be a quick hone then have them resleeved this is even better than the cheap chineese crap.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[Jerry Roberts]

DOT 3 brake fluid mixes with water and doesn't separate . The two fluids have nothing to do with oil . 

[Andydodge]

If it were me I'd have them sleeved with either stainless steel or brass, never need doing again...........my oz 2 cents worth..................andyd 

[keithb7]

35 minutes ago, Jerry Roberts said:

DOT 3 brake fluid mixes with water and doesn't separate . The two fluids have nothing to do with oil . 

Makes sense. Just seemed that the rust was all in the lower piston, not the upper. I thought there might be a reason.

[John32369]

who does resleeving?

[keithb7]

I have a question about proper measurement of the cylinder bore.

My 1953 Chrysler Shop Manual tells me the cylinder bore is 1 1/8". Then it reads that the piston to cylinder bore clearance is to be .003 to .0065". Should I remove the piston seal and place the piston in the bore, then try and measure this clearance with feeler gauges? Or maybe its better if I use an expanding t-gauge in the cylinder bore then measure it with a micrometer. Then measure the piston outer diameter with micrometer too. Then figure out the clearance?

The instructions go on to say that crocus cloth should clean up light corrosion. Black stains on the cylinder walls are caused by piston cups and will do no harm...Cool. Any scoring, heavy corrosion or scratches will need to be honed. However the cylinder bore should not be increased by .004".

This is my first time going this far into wheel pistons. Usually I just replace them. Your experience here, tells me to rebuild or resleeve my original cylinders instead of buying cheap import new ones. I agree. As always comments from your experience are appreciated. Thanks, Keith 

[Ajgkirkwood]

With my chrysler when i did the brakes they had decent pitting and i did a fair bit of honing. Most of it cleaned up but could still see the pitting. I put new seals in the front (didnt know the rears were smaller) and all seems well. For me to get wheel cylinders it was gonna be like 600 cnd for all 4. I might as well go disk at that price

[Plymouthy Adams]

if you intend to get correct readings for doing these repairs at home, get some snap gauges for measuring the bore of a cylinder.....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-TELESCOPIC-GAUGE-SET-machinists-hand-tool-tools-inside-bore-snap-gauges/322064862347?hash=item4afc8fcc8b:g:y7UAAOSwfl9XBKl7

Edited November 6, 2017 by Plymouthy Adams

[Adam H P15 D30]

A good caliper is all you need to measure the bore then the piston.  A little subtraction and you have your clearance. Calipers or better yet digital calipers are not too expensive and should be a part of your basic tools.

Adam

[Ajgkirkwood]

How ever bore/snap ring guages are nice to have but take a bit to get used to using. The calipers are super easy and its always good to have. Light pressure is used on both tools to just seat it in the right spot. Too much pressure will vary your results. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

a caliper is used in conjunction with the snap gauges...while a caliper by itself will correctly read an OD it is not quite dead on for ID the smaller the bore the greater your variance

Edited November 6, 2017 by Plymouthy Adams

[Ajgkirkwood]

Bore/snap ring guages are nice for checking further down those bores. Check if they are tappered

[Plymouthy Adams]

1 hour ago, Ajgkirkwood said:

Bore/snap ring guages are nice for checking further down those bores. Check if they are tappered

exactly and as the piston does not transverse the entire distance on each stroke of the brake pedal you can now guess why the snap gauge is more accurate means of reading the ID of a brake cylinder.......of course...you can play horseshoes and score a point for being close instead of going for a ringer..

Edited November 6, 2017 by Plymouthy Adams

[classiccarjack]

For sleeving try:

http://whitepost.com/

I personally use this Company:

http://www.karpspb.com/

 

I sleeve my Master Cylinder and my Wheel  Cylinders with stainless steel.  I have also used bronze in the past with success on a Power Wagon.  I tried the Taiwan parts, and they leaked.  So that is why I prefer sleeving. 

 

I hope this helps.

[Plymouthy Adams]

last person I knew that had them sleeved go them back dead on the bore spec....this was a basic problem as the pistons no longer had the clearance tolerance as specified by Ma Mopar and the pistons would not pass through the bore.......in contacting these companies I would address who supplies the pistons and issue of clearance on final hone..

[keithb7]

All right, I do have a set of the telescopic snap bore gages. I also have a digital caliper.

Bore = 1.125", Piston = 1.123" Looks like a good fit well within tolerance. Will try some Scotch-Brite and clean out the bores.  That was only 1 cylinder , 5 more to go. Personally I like a micrometer over a digital caliper. The micrometer I have, only lets you close in so tight, then it clicks and stops turning. You can easily over do-it with calipers. Not so easily done with a decent micrometer. It only does Zero to 1" though. I need to buy more micrometers. Yes, I think I just found another excuse to buy another tool.

[Plymouthy Adams]

1 minute ago, keithb7 said:

All right, I do have a set of the telescopic snap bore gages. I also have a digital caliper.

Bore = 1.125", Piston = 1.123" Looks like a good fit well within tolerance. Will try some Scotch-Brite and clean out the bores.  That was only 1 cylinder , 5 more to go. Personally I like a micrometer over a digital caliper. The micrometer I have, only lets you close in so tight, then it clicks and stops turning. You can easily over do-it with calipers. Not so easily done with a decent micrometer. It only does Zero to 1" though. I need to buy more micrometers. Yes, I think I just found another excuse to buy another tool.

you cannot have enough precise measuring tools and for that matter the standards to verify their accuracy...

[jiffyjet1011]

why have them sleeved when brand new high quality units are avail from , kanter, vintageamerican, roberts, and others. its not that technical buy em new and youll be good. why fix old junk ! ! its a basic hydraulic system with smooth bores and new rubber your good to go. every other part that you install on your car today is from overseas, what good is it to have rebuilt cylinders with new made in china brake shoes and flex rubber hoses?  buy em new and dont waiste your time , your brake shoes need to be high quality as that is what stops the car! this is coming from years experience as a hydraulic press mechanic.  not to mention the when they sleeve the new units they use a chine sleeve and chinese rubber since that is all that is available. NO PARTS ARE MADE IN THIS COUNTRY ANYMORE! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

Edited November 7, 2017 by jiffyjet1011

[keithb7]

I have been practising my brake line double flaring skills. I used an old brake line I removed for practise. I have cut off the flares that I made to repeat the process. I've practised with about 8 flares now. The old removed brake like is pretty corroded up, outside and inside. I cleaned the outer surfaces up with my bench mount brass wheel. I have been inspecting my work with a magnifier. I am concerned about the second fold of the flare.  You can see the line where the folded over flare ends, here in this pic. Where the shiny clean brake line, meets the dirty inner corroded surface. That line is part way up the flare wall. That shows me that the folded piece is not going all the way down to the bottom depth of the flare.  Does it need to?

I am following  instructions from some YT videos I have watched. I am carefully cleaning, prepping and filing the lines before I flare them. I file the cut flat and smooth. Chamfer the outer edges at the cut. De-burr the inner wall edge. Set the correct depth in the flare tool bar, to create the bulge. Then take off the press adaptor for the second flare fold with the tool. 

Maybe it's time I practiced some flares now on a piece of shiny new brake line? Is this fold line, witnessed inside the flare below, a problem as it shows?

I'm not re-using this line below. Just practising on it. The thought is to get the procedure right, before I start flaring the new lines that I will be installing.

Thanks.

Edited November 14, 2017 by keithb7

[Don Coatney]

Your old lines are corroded inside and out. Toss them and practice on new stuff.

[keithb7]

Thanks Don. Will do. I just tried another last one on the old line. I set the line height for the first bulge press, a little higher up the flare adaptor tool. I got a more complete good looking finished flare. I also notice rings around the inside of the flare. It appears, left by the tool end bit. It is not machined smooth. You can see the ridges here in the next pic. Also I see cracks in the chrome on this piece already. 9 flares now and it has cracks. Cheap is cheap. I suppose I got the quality that I paid for this tool.