Caster Adjustment?

[nonstop]

Long story short, my 1954 Royal wanders on the freeway and at somewhat moderate speeds.  I have power steering, so effort is not necessarily a concern.  Has anybody adjusted their caster on their car, and if so, how is it done?

 

I've searched, but haven't really found an answer.  I also checked my manual, but it said caster cannot be adjusted.

 

Thanks,

Nick

[Plymouthy Adams]

have you inspected the frame for damage by checking for shift of the wheelbase front to rear and compared left to right for equal, are your rear components also in good state or repair/service.  check your frame by means of marks on the floor using a plump bob on a level floor for being bent. 
Specification are given in the manual for the frame, the 54 model has gauge holes to assist with the precise measurements...

[DrDoctor]

   I’ve never known of a front suspension that didn’t allow for caster/camber adjustments. Even Fords of the 40’s with their I-beam axels could be adjusted at shops that specialized in them—camber by actually bending the axel with really strong jacks on a frame jig, and caster by also bending the ends of the axel with really strong jacks on the frame jig. It’s been my experience that 2^o-3^o positive is plenty to keep the car tracking in a straight line, and thereby making driving the car much less work, and thus much more pleasurable.

[desoto1939]

7 hours ago, nonstop said:

Long story short, my 1954 Royal wanders on the freeway and at somewhat moderate speeds.  I have power steering, so effort is not necessarily a concern.  Has anybody adjusted their caster on their car, and if so, how is it done?

 

I've searched, but haven't really found an answer.  I also checked my manual, but it said caster cannot be adjusted.

 

Thanks,

Nick

My first question is do you have a service manual or motors manual on your car. The alignment would be covered in the service manual. I know onthe 1941 model there are special camber thin wrench that are used to adjust the camber.

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[Andydodge]

First off how is the wheel alignment?...then tyre pressure?....I'd be checking front end wear in no particular order....tie rod ends, kingpins, upper & lower inner & outer pins & bushes also does the 54 with P/S have a rubber steering box isolator between the box & chassis and outside the chassis........also how are the rear spring shackles and front bush/pin....finally what tyres?............crossplies or radials?..............when I got my supposedly "restored" 1941 Plymouth I had to replace the tie rod ends, kingpins, steering isolators inner & outer and rear spring shackles..........got it reasonably o/k but after a few months the crosssply tyres reminded me why I didn't like them when I 1st got my 1940 Dodge 45yrs ago......... so I replaced them with real tyres, radials and the wandering finally went.....my Oz 2 cents worth.......

.........And 1939-1956 Mopars do NOT have any actual caster adjustment BUT " the proper caster angle of -1 to +1 degree, 0 preferred is obtained by the proper assembly of the upper and lower control arms. If the caster angle does not come within these limits look for bent parts in the front suspension system." ...... as quoted from the 1946-53 Plymouth Service Manual, the Motors Auto Repair Manual also advise that the caster is not adjustable but is correctly set when the camber eccentric bushing is set correctly............ ..andyd     

Edited June 25, 2017 by Andydodge
extra info

[nonstop]

Hi guys, 

Thanks for the quick replies. The front end is I good shape, and I was unable to locate any frame damage. I had read the same things in the manual about it not necessarily being adjustable. I also read about the 0 degrees caster preferred.

I also found a quick blurb about shims IF the frame was bent, which made sense, but the more I thought about, the more I questioned it since it has king pins instead of ball joints and I wasn't sure what or if it could be shimmed. I was thinking about adding positive caster to help increase stability on the freeway. 

I should have clarified that the car doesn't necessarily "wander" on the freeway (my poor choice of words), but more so it is vague at higher speeds compared to newer cars. I know it is an older car, and I REALLY DO enjoy driving it for the ride it has. I was just looking if there was a simple way to increase caster.

Thank you!

[Andydodge]

Nonstop.........what sort of tyres do you have on it?......andyd 

[Plymouthy Adams]

up to 75 in my 54 without PS is fine..80 is getting very light in the front and "boat float" about 85 just too light and though not road walking...just don't give you a arm fuzzy I believe if the shocks were relocated this would tame the beast a bit more...the shocks in stock location is a joke at best.

[nonstop]

I am running radials on it, since it's a daily driver.

Before the power steering, the car felt more solid on the freeway with less float. Once I added power steering (factory set up) it has made it a little nerve wracking at times going into or coming out of certain sweeping turns. Compound that with stupid amounts of traffic, with at least half the cars piloted by mouth breathers, and it can make for an interesting drive! I did relocate the shocks, which also seemed to help. 

 

[ptwothree]

5 hours ago, nonstop said:

I am running radials on it, since it's a daily driver.

Before the power steering, the car felt more solid on the freeway with less float. Once I added power steering (factory set up) it has made it a little nerve wracking at times going into or coming out of certain sweeping turns. Compound that with stupid amounts of traffic, with at least half the cars piloted by mouth breathers, and it can make for an interesting drive! I did relocate the shocks, which also seemed to help. 

 

Check the toe. To much toe out will cause the car to be twitchy in a straight line and can make the car over steer in turns or sweepers.  Caster is built into the front suspension and is correct when the camber is set.

[Silverdome]

The toe adjustment can make your tires wear quicker and you can inspect the tread and see how it wipes across it. Also you may notice tire squealing in your turns depending on the severity of out of adjustment.

[dpollo]

Caster can be changed slightly by inserting a horse shoe shim under the lower control arm pivot.    There is no "adjustment"     But caster could and can be altered when new inner pivots are installed top and bottom, especially if this is done without an assembly jig.    

Camber is adjusted by a cam on the upper-outer pivot .                                                                                                         '

[DrDoctor]

   As an addendum to my earlier comments—while the service manual may stipulate that the caster isn’t adjustable, as others herein have attested, it actually is—to wit: “Caster can be changed slightly by inserting a horse-shoe shim under the lower control arm pivot.  There’s no "adjustment" [sic] per se.   But, caster could, and can, be altered when new inner pivots are installed top and bottom, especially if this is done without an assembly jig.” (dpollo, Tu 27Jun2017, 9:33am EDT (approx)). Further, one must also keep in mind that the original alignment settings were designed for the usage of bias-ply tires, and in that arrangement, it worked rather well. However, with the advent of radial-ply tires (and their inherent sidewall movement resultant to their construction. . .), and the utilization of these tires on older automobiles that were never intended to have such tires installed, these settings have proven themselves to not be the optimum settings when using radial-ply tires. To “regain” handling characteristics, the setting of at least 1^o-2 ^o positive degrees of caster accomplishes that.

[greg g]

There is a rubber isolation pad between the steering box and the frame.  If it goes squishy like old oil soaked rubber can, it can allow road forces to feed back through the tie rods etc and move the box around.  Also if tour steering system has the "Y" shaped center arm, spoiled rubber parts there can also make the car loosey goosey down the road.

[MarkAubuchon]

Common problem with a 60 year old car.  Here is what I did on my car, which I have driven coast to coast.  Front end completely rebuilt all new rubber and bushings. Greg right about the rubber between the steering box, also don't forget to adjust the steering box gear.  Slight toe in helps.  One of the biggest things that I found helped on my 47 which wanders/floats and my 49,  Wider tires.  Seems you don't notice it at low speed, but on the interstate but all paved roads have what I refer to as a crown and grooves from traffic wear.  My theory is that the older cars with narrow tires tend to straddle these grooves.  Wider tears minimize it.

[Plymouthy Adams]

wider tires on narrow rims may tend to give you the balloon bulge that aides in the bulk of the tire falling behind while in rotation at speed thus providing the added caster to eliminate the road walking properties of a neutral caster aligned car...if running radial, would not go large on old marrow rims nor count on this effect for smooth handling associated with added caster in the alignment.

[nonstop]

Thanks guys, sorry it took a bit to get back to you. My car doesn't have an isolator between the steering box and frame (from what I've seen, appears to be a 6 cylinder only thing, not sure why).

At this point, I think my smartest move would be to bring it to my local old school alignment shop that has been around for years. As much as I like messing with my car, this sounds like it has the potential to have me chasing my tail and drive me crazy!

[jeffsunzeri]

On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 11:42 AM, nonstop said:

Long story short, my 1954 Royal wanders on the freeway and at somewhat moderate speeds.  I have power steering, so effort is not necessarily a concern.  Has anybody adjusted their caster on their car, and if so, how is it done?

 

I've searched, but haven't really found an answer.  I also checked my manual, but it said caster cannot be adjusted.

 

Thanks,

Nick

The 1954 Royal in tip top condition, steers and handles much differently than modern automobiles, and actually much differently than its contemporaries that have un-powered steering.

That sort of "indistinct" feel is somewhat difficult to get used to for those to whom it is a new thing. I recall one or more articles from Tom McCahill from around 1956/57 or so talking about this. His verdict (and mine too) is that once a driver gets accustomed to the very power-assisted steering, especially in a larger car, it really makes your driving much more pleasurable and handling performance for the attuned driver is better than with non-power.

You hear a lot of automobile "reviewers" and "test drivers" whine about overly powered steering in older (50's, 60's and 70's) cars and trucks, complaining about lack of feedback, and isolation from the "road feel". I say those folks are bad drivers who don't know squat about what they are driving and how to get the most from their cars' handling.

Bottom line, try to live with and work with your Royal (after making sure everything is set correctly, and with good tires) and see if you can adapt your driving skills to the car. You may be very pleasantly surprised.

[51Traveler]

I have a 51 Chrysler Windsor Traveler with a camber issue and there is no way to fix it? It's hard to see but the top of the tire needs to come out. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

2 hours ago, 51Traveler said:

I have a 51 Chrysler Windsor Traveler with a camber issue and there is no way to fix it? It's hard to see but the top of the tire needs to come out. 

 

 

why do you think your camber is not adjustable.....

[51Traveler]

14 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

why do you think your camber is not adjustable.....

You can see it. The top of my passenger tire is tipped way in. I'll try and get a good picture tomorrow. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

1 minute ago, 51Traveler said:

You can see it. The top of my passenger tire is tipped way in. I'll try and get a good picture tomorrow. 

again....you stated it is not adjustable...NOT THAT IT was out....my question again, why would you think it is not adjustable...

[51Traveler]

10 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

again....you stated it is not adjustable...NOT THAT IT was out....my question again, why would you think it is not adjustable...

Because these upper A arm mounting bolts don't have a in/out adjustment. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

look at the outer end of the upper A-arm......this is where you will find the eccentric bushing for the camber.......if you do not have a factory manual you should invest in one to help you identify the parts and manner of repairs.....

[51Traveler]

3 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

look at the outer end of the upper A-arm......this is where you will find the eccentric bushing for the camber.......if you do not have a factory manual you should invest in one to help you identify the parts and manner of repairs.....

They are not.