Hubler13f Posted June 6, 2017 Report Posted June 6, 2017 Today I took the P15 out to try out my rebuilt wheel cylinders and brake adjustments. I took it about 5 miles out to the water company to pay my bill, but on the way home I noticed the motor running a little rough up hills then I saw a cloud of steam out my back window but it went away quickly, but I knew things weren't good. I was less than a mile from home so I decided to limp it back, I pulled in the driveway and the motor was running very rough, barely idling. I shut it off and walked around the back of the car and stood there for about five seconds when POOF!!! a plume a steam erupted from the tail pipe and continued for what seemed like forever. I popped the hood and could see water bubbling and sizzling at the joint between the exhaust manifold and exhaust pipe. I checked the oil and it was at normal level with no signs of water in it. After letting the car sit for an hour I grabbed a couple jugs of water and started to fill the radiator, my wife said she heard a peeing sound and I looked to see my car pissing the water I was pouring in straight out the tailpipe. We took a walk down the road and when we returned I asked her to watch the tailpipe while I turned the motor over and sure enough she said it was pumping coolant out full bore. So I am going drain what is left in her turn the motor over until water stops coming out, and pull the plugs and spray WD40 in the cylinders until I can get around to pulling the head. Any thoughts or suggestions? Quote
Jerry Roberts Posted June 6, 2017 Report Posted June 6, 2017 If you find a blown head gasket be sure to completely drain and replace the coolant , not just drain it down far enough to do the job . The coolant will have become acidic . A sign of a blown head gasket can be bubbles showing in the top of the radiator when the engine is running , and of course white smoke coming out of the exhaust . Quote
Hubler13f Posted June 7, 2017 Author Report Posted June 7, 2017 I pulled the spark plugs tonight and saw coolant on both cylinder 2 and 3 plugs. I just pulled the motor about 2 years ago, cleaned it up and put new gaskets in it and have put maybe 500 miles on it since, so I am pretty sure I have a warped head. As far as I could tell it had never been apart before so this head will be going to the machine shop hopefully tomorrow, after I figure out what can safely be taken off. Ill be replacing the thermostat, water pump and any other parts that may have added to this failure. I keep telling my wife that once I have the bugs worked out this should be a relatively dependable and fun car, so far its making a liar out of me. Quote
Hubler13f Posted June 7, 2017 Author Report Posted June 7, 2017 It's looking like .125 is routinely taken off these heads without needing any other modifications. .125 seems like a lot, but I guess it works. Quote
rcb Posted June 7, 2017 Report Posted June 7, 2017 Did you use paint or copper spray on the gasket? On some of the older diesels (like 1960 and back) it's common to paint the head gasket with aluminum paint before installing it. Requires more cleaning when you pull the head but it does a good job getting a good seal. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted June 7, 2017 Report Posted June 7, 2017 I wouldn't take any more than you have too. Too thin too fast of heat tranfser.... higher temps under heavy loads. Quote
Hubler13f Posted June 7, 2017 Author Report Posted June 7, 2017 6 hours ago, rcb said: Did you use paint or copper spray on the gasket? On some of the older diesels (like 1960 and back) it's common to paint the head gasket with aluminum paint before installing it. Requires more cleaning when you pull the head but it does a good job getting a good seal. No aluminium or copper paint on this one. I installed it without any added "sticky stuff" I have installed head gaskets both ways. This gasket seemed to be thick enough that I felt comfortable not using it. I may rethink that on the replacement. 6 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said: I wouldn't take any more than you have too. Too thin too fast of heat tranfser.... higher temps under heavy loads. I think this will be my plan going in. I also want to have some extra meat there in case this happens again. We will see what the machinest says. Quote
Hubler13f Posted June 7, 2017 Author Report Posted June 7, 2017 Well, there's your problem! First I have to say I do love the simplicity of these motors, I put the kids on the bus went to the garage and had the head pulled in under a half an hour. It took me longer to clean up than it did to pull the head. That said as soon as I pulled the head the problem reached up and slapped me in the face right away. Can anyone find it? Here's a close up, you can see that the warp in the head provided enough wiggle room in the gasket that it wagged back and forth until it broke completely, you can see the wear marks from moving back and forth, look at the bolt hole and how wallowed it is that thing had some movement. The rest of the engine looks fine, I wiped it down, sprayed it with WD40 and covered it. Its been raining like crazy here in PA And I set a 2 foot level on the head you can see daylight there but the picture doesn't do it any justice. There is at least a couple hundredths of a difference there. I made a call to the machine shop and am waiting a call back. Quote
rcb Posted June 7, 2017 Report Posted June 7, 2017 Wow... yeah that's pretty significant. Have you check the block too? Quote
dpollo Posted June 7, 2017 Report Posted June 7, 2017 I remember well with my first '40 giving it a hard run.... as only a 16 year old can... and being followed home by a cloud of steam. It was still running well so I raised the hood and peered into the radiator. I watched as the tide went out then I was rewarded with a face full of hot antifreeze ! The engine cut up rough and stalled. Big gap between 3 and 4 ! No other harm done but I could not get it to start after a new gasket was installed. We towed it with a tractor until it started. The exhaust continued to blow fog until all the coolant which had collected in the muffler was cleared out. Took about ten minutes. You can expect the same. 1 Quote
Silverdome Posted June 7, 2017 Report Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, rcb said: Wow... yeah that's pretty significant. Have you check the block too? X2. Also, which I'm sure you did before, torque it down in the right sequence per the suggested procedure in your repair manual. Edited June 7, 2017 by Silverdome added a word Quote
Hubler13f Posted June 7, 2017 Author Report Posted June 7, 2017 I checked the block as well as I could without pulling it and could not see anything significant, I will say that if I end up having to pull the motor then the car is going to sit until I get my bigger shop built later this year. And at that point I will either do a complete rebuild or will do a complete drivetrain swap with a donor vehicle, as long as my wife let's me. Quote
55 Fargo Posted June 7, 2017 Report Posted June 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, Hubler13f said: I checked the block as well as I could without pulling it and could not see anything significant, I will say that if I end up having to pull the motor then the car is going to sit until I get my bigger shop built later this year. And at that point I will either do a complete rebuild or will do a complete drivetrain swap with a donor vehicle, as long as my wife let's me. Whos the boss? you the wife or the car......... 1 Quote
Hubler13f Posted June 7, 2017 Author Report Posted June 7, 2017 1 hour ago, dpollo said: I remember well with my first '40 giving it a hard run.... as only a 16 year old can... and being followed home by a cloud of steam. It was still running well so I raised the hood and peered into the radiator. I watched as the tide went out then I was rewarded with a face full of hot antifreeze ! The engine cut up rough and stalled. Big gap between 3 and 4 ! No other harm done but I could not get it to start after a new gasket was installed. We towed it with a tractor until it started. The exhaust continued to blow fog until all the coolant which had collected in the muffler was cleared out. Took about ten minutes. You can expect the same. Thank You for that warning, I am sure my heart would have dropped when I get it back together and saw more steam. I would have figured it out but now I know to expect it. 15 minutes ago, Silverdome said: X2. Also, which I'm sure you did before, torque it down in the right sequence per the suggested procedure in your repair manual. Absolutely, followed the manual to the letter. Quote
Hubler13f Posted June 7, 2017 Author Report Posted June 7, 2017 1 minute ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said: Whos the boss? you the wife or the car......... The wife definitely the wife! LOL! 1 Quote
Merle Coggins Posted June 7, 2017 Report Posted June 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Hubler13f said: The wife definitely the wife! LOL! 1 Quote
Hubler13f Posted June 7, 2017 Author Report Posted June 7, 2017 Ok, I dropped the head off at the machine shop and will have it back tomorrow for $40 Quote
JerseyHarold Posted June 7, 2017 Report Posted June 7, 2017 7 hours ago, dpollo said: I remember well with my first '40 giving it a hard run.... as only a 16 year old can... and being followed home by a cloud of steam. It was still running well so I raised the hood and peered into the radiator. I watched as the tide went out then I was rewarded with a face full of hot antifreeze ! The engine cut up rough and stalled. Big gap between 3 and 4 ! No other harm done but I could not get it to start after a new gasket was installed. We towed it with a tractor until it started. The exhaust continued to blow fog until all the coolant which had collected in the muffler was cleared out. Took about ten minutes. You can expect the same. Can you put a wt-n-dry vacuum cleaner hose on the tailpipe and suck the coolant out of the exhaust system? Quote
knuckleharley Posted June 7, 2017 Report Posted June 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Hubler13f said: Ok, I dropped the head off at the machine shop and will have it back tomorrow for $40 Must be a BUNCH of typos in that post. Looked just like you said the head would be milled by tomorrow,and it would only cost you 40 bucks. We all know that just isn't possible,so what was it you were trying to say? Quote
greg g Posted June 7, 2017 Report Posted June 7, 2017 Last head I had done was dropped of Tuesday after noon, tanked, shaved .040, picked Wed A.M. for $68.00 new Pioneer head bolts included. Quote
knuckleharley Posted June 8, 2017 Report Posted June 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, greg g said: Last head I had done was dropped of Tuesday after noon, tanked, shaved .040, picked Wed A.M. for $68.00 new Pioneer head bolts included. WOW! I had the head on my 39 IHC milled .125 two years ago by a friend I have known since he was in Jr High School,and the labor was around 100 bucks. You might find this hard to believe because *I* find it hard to believe and I know it to be true,but the head on that pu was so warped that oil would actually run down both sides of the block. Yet the damn thing would still start pretty easily,and even thought it was slow to reach cruising speed,it would cruise right along at 60 MPH. Leaking a quart of oil every 50 miles or so. I finally got tired of pulling the plugs to clean them,so took it in to have the head milled. It took .125 to get it flat again. Once it was back together I was shocked at how much power it had. Driving it was litterally like driving my old 67 Chevy pu with the 250 cube 6 in it. It was actually pretty peppy. It just occured to me I need to post photos of the IHC on the art deco board. This old beater truck draws more attention than anything else I have ever driven. Every time I drive it down to the Food Lion,there is somebody out int he parking lot using their cell phones to take photos of it when I come out. Quote
Hubler13f Posted June 8, 2017 Author Report Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, rcb said: Wow! You can't beat that. That's what I thought. 3 hours ago, JerseyHarold said: Can you put a wt-n-dry vacuum cleaner hose on the tailpipe and suck the coolant out of the exhaust system? I will give that a try. 2 hours ago, knuckleharley said: Must be a BUNCH of typos in that post. Looked just like you said the head would be milled by tomorrow,and it would only cost you 40 bucks. We all know that just isn't possible,so what was it you were trying to say? That's what he said, he has been doing this about 40 years. I think he made his money back in the 70s and 80s and now it's more of a hobby for him. He does good work and is highly recommended. Edited June 8, 2017 by Hubler13f Quote
knuckleharley Posted June 8, 2017 Report Posted June 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, Hubler13f said: That's what I thought. I will give that a try. That's what he said, he has been doing this about 40 years. I think he made his money back in the 70s and 80s and now it's more of a hobby for him. He does good work and is highly recommended. Buy him something nice for Christmas,. You want to stay on his good side. Quote
Hubler13f Posted June 8, 2017 Author Report Posted June 8, 2017 1 hour ago, knuckleharley said: It just occured to me I need to post photos of the IHC on the art deco board. There isnt anything art or deco about my 47 IHC KB1. Thats my fine tuning tool on the hood. Quote
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