Spitfire Inline 6 engine

[51 flathead]

I recently started work on my grandpa's what I think is a 1951, dodge with the 3 rear windows. As far as i know it's a 1 and 1/2 ton truck. The engine has Spitfire on the head. I don't know anything else about the engine other than it may be a 230 and it is stuck, but I think I can get that taken care of. I need help on truck identification, is it a b-3 or... I would also like any information on the brake system and oiling system. I would like to keep it mostly original with the exception of exhaust and maybe a dual carb setup. I have read a lot on here, but I would love to learn more, to get this old truck running again. looks rusty but its thin surface rust.

Edited January 27, 2017 by 51 flathead

[Don Coatney]

Spitfire head is a Chrysler only head and that makes it a long block 25 inch engine. Was your truck made in Canada? If not somebody has swapped the engine. Most likely a 251 cubic inch.

[51 flathead]

I am not sure where it was made i will look into that. It is good to know it's a 25" thank you. What would the letter-number combination be for a truck of that size?

[Dodgeb4ya]

B3FA 170 or B3G...1-1/2 ton...

So B3FA 170 is a 1-1/2 toner with a 2 speed rear axle and a 170" wheel base

All this Should be on the driver side door hinge pillar.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Dodgeb4ya

[Young Ed]

3 hours ago, Don Coatney said:

Spitfire head is a Chrysler only head and that makes it a long block 25 inch engine. Was your truck made in Canada? If not somebody has swapped the engine. Most likely a 251 cubic inch.

Bigger trucks had the 25" block. Of course since his says Spitfire someone has still swapped at least the head. 

[51 flathead]

Ok, thanks guys. Any recomondations on if I should rebuild this engine. I have another that is a crate engine that was tracked down by a dealer in the 80's it's in another truck slightly used, should I put that in it after a rebuild of it or just leave them alone.

[51 flathead]

What I want is an original exterior, engine, and interior look, but I want something I can be confident about driving daily. I have floated the Idea of making it 4-wheel drive but i am on a fairly tight budget as a high schooler. I need some tips on where to start. 

[rb1949]

Got a camera to add some pictures? Might help ID some of the things you question. Engine # on the block.

[wallytoo]

good luck turning it into a daily driver on a tight budget.  that truck will be lucky to get 9 mpg.  i have a '48 1.5 ton, with the 2-speed rear, and it gets between 6 to 8 mpg.

 

it can be made a daily driver.  it won't be cheap.

 

as far as the brakes go, they should have a remote booster behind the cab.  when the brake system on these medium size trucks is working correctly, you can easily lock up the wheels.

 

wally

[JBNeal]

A reproduction factory shop manual will have most of the repair procedures detailed.  To identify the truck, there should be a data plate on the driver door jamb, between the hinges...it will have the model and serial #, which can decoded on t137.com.   To identify the engine, t137 details what to look for and which table to read from.

If working on a budget, you will want to keep modifications to a minimum and focus on repairs.  These old beasts can snowball on ya with upgrades to powertrain, brakes, electrical, safety...tires alone can set ya back nearly 1k, if ya factor in cleaning up the wheels properly; powertrain work can get up to 5k with machining, new precision parts and seals; fuel system cleaning and repairs can be 500-1000; exhaust can be 500-1000, depending on if it is split or not...and the body work?  Yeah, you'll need to learn how to all of it yourself to keep costs down...there is a way to repaint with a foam roller method that can be done for a few hundo, but it is time consuming... If there is rustout on the fenders near the rivets or on the cab around the floor, that will definitely need to be addressed first.

But the most important thing you will need is patience...getting in a hurry can be costly and lead to losing interest...I have a side yard full of other ppl's projects who tore into an old beast then lost interest, and I got to save those machines from the scrap heap.  Being methodical with your work, planning each stage of work before turning any wrenches, and being disciplined enough to persevere through each stage of the work is required.  Starting your own build thread on this forum could be helpful in documenting your progress, asking questions to get some help in solving problems, and sharing any new information with fellow enthusiasts... asking questions is good, but starting new thread after new thread on the same project is not really encouraged.

But above all, have fun with what you have and enjoy the work as its own reward...let the truck be its own trophy by driving it as much as you can, and leave the competition for trophies to the big shots who need their egos stroked 

[51 flathead]

Thank you. It does have some well a lot of surface rust but nothing all the way through that I have found yet. The body is in great shape except for a dent in the right front fender. I really want to stay away from the machine shop, because of the money. I am not worried about paint yet I will figure that out when I get there. My profile picture is of the truck I am working on. As for doing stuff myself I know if I can't do I can learn it. I love working on stuff and I thank you all for the guidance. I will take pictures next time I am up there (it's an hour away) and start a build thread after that.

[dpollo]

I think I would do what is necessary to get the  engine running .  If the "crate" engine is good, it is a straightforward job to swap it into your truck.  Since your engine will not turn, you will have difficulty separating the crankshaft from the flywheel which means the bell housing and pedals will have to be pulled from the truck.  Otherwise, it is possible to leave these items in place , saving a lot of time.

Once you have got a running truck then go through the brakes .    Check all steering   components and replace any worn parts.  It is a matter of picking off one system at a time.  If you are new to the hobby, you really do not want to completely disassemble everything at once. It can quickly become a very large jig saw puzzle.  Good luck. 

[51 flathead]

I have worked on some newer vehicles, but nothing was quite as extensive as this will be. My main focus is the engine hopefully most of everything else isn't too badly worn out.

[RobertKB]

When disassembling anything on the truck write yourself notes and TAKE PICTURES, LOTS OF PICTURES. It's amazing how quickly you can forget how something came apart even though you are sure you will remember. Been there and done that.

Good luck with the project.

[51 flathead]

Thank you and Believe me i have learned that lesson after working on carburetors 

Edited February 1, 2017 by 51 flathead

[50plymouth]

On January-27-17 at 4:45 PM, 51 flathead said:

I recently started work on my grandpa's what I think is a 1951, dodge with the 3 rear windows. As far as i know it's a 1 and 1/2 ton truck. The engine has Spitfire on the head. I don't know anything else about the engine other than it may be a 230 and it is stuck, but I think I can get that taken care of. I need help on truck identification, is it a b-3 or... I would also like any information on the brake system and oiling system. I would like to keep it mostly original with the exception of exhaust and maybe a dual carb setup. I have read a lot on here, but I would love to learn more, to get this old truck running again. looks rusty but its thin surface rust.

What we know if it says spitfire the engine was made in Canada.  It will be 25 1/2" across the head, vs a 230 or the flatheads made in the USA which are 23 1/2" long.

As some one pointed out it maybe a Chrysler Engine and it could be a Dodge, Desoto or Plymouth engine that someone put a spitfire head on top of.

You say you have a crate motor. Of course  is that crate motor a 23 1/2 or 25 1/2 engine.  There is a good blog on the forum called keeping up with the AoK guys. You can see some good intake information. They also show the factory dual intake and exhaust that came out a year after your truck. If you can find out it will fit on your setup.

There are a few guys with formulas and tips for trying to get an engine unceased that you may want to check out. If you can get it unceased  it would help to take it apart if that is the route you go.  I would suggest finding someone close to you that has worked on Flatheads. Take off the pan, head, side cover and do an inspection of things. Have them take off a couple of caps from a main or two and a rod or two and see what the bearings are like.

Assuming it hasn't been lost over the years, if you open the door there will be an identification plate on the door post. That will give you some information.  The engine serial number is on the block up close to the head towards the front of the engine.  That helps a bit. On the block on the drivers side down by the oil pan there will be a date code casted into the  block which will also be helpful

If you take the pan off there will be a part number on the crank which is helpful. If you get it unceased, turning it over an measuring the stroke (top dead center to bottom dead center) by removing the brass plug in the middle of the head, towards the firewall sticking a rod or hard wire in and gently cranking it over to measure the stroke would nail down what cubic inch engine you have.

 

I would do that so you can determine your options.  If it was a early smaller cubic inch Canadian engines it might have you lean more to pulling and replacing and if it is a 265 ci engine then you likely want to consider rebuilding or reusing the crank and rods to build a 265.

 

You certainly have lots of options and there are lots of experts around here to talk to. There are also a lot of "instant experts" so be a little careful who you are getting advise from, how much they really know about trucks and the number of posts they have made is not necessarily and indication on their expertise.

 

 

[Young Ed]

1 hour ago, 50plymouth said:

What we know if it says spitfire the engine was made in Canada.  It will be 25 1/2" across the head, vs a 230 or the flatheads made in the USA which are 23 1/2" long.

 

Pretty sure they also made and sold Spitfire engines in the US also. 

[Don Coatney]

56 minutes ago, Young Ed said:

Pretty sure they also made and sold Spitfire engines in the US also. 

You are correct Ed. It was a Chrysler only head in the USA and measured 25 1/2 inches end to end not across.Also I have seen Canadian 25 1/2 inch engines in Canadian built Dodge cars that did not have the Spitfire embossed head.

[51 flathead]

Thanks guys.

[classiccarjack]

It's nice to see a young gun jump into getting one of these trucks on the road.  I took on a 1950 Dodge Truck when I was 19.  Now I am approaching 50 and have a 1936 1/2 ton, a 1937 1.5 Ton, and a 1938 Plymouth Truck to take on.  I hope to have the 1937 running this year.  I look forward to seeing your photos.

[50plymouth]

On February-02-17 at 3:26 PM, Young Ed said:

Pretty sure they also made and sold Spitfire engines in the US also.

Sold in the USA, absolutely they were.  Made in the USA, absolutely they were not.  Every single one made in Windsor Ontario Canada,

[Young Ed]

7 minutes ago, 50plymouth said:

Sold in the USA, absolutely they were.  Made in the USA, absolutely they were not.  Every single one made in Windsor Ontario Canada,

Can you post your source? I'd like to read more about that.

[classiccarjack]

13 hours ago, Young Ed said:

Can you post your source? I'd like to read more about that.

Give Tim Kingsbury a PM, his grandfather is the one of the engineers responsible for the design and production of the big six.  He is from Canada.  This wonderful man was part of designing the Hyperpack six!  What an amazing family....  Tim is very bright, you will probably want to take notes. 

[LaMigra]

I believe I'm done my due diligence but still can't find a definitive answer to the exact size motor I have.  I know it's a Canadian Spitfire Flat head six, from the 40's but in order to find it a home, I have to be able to describe the exact engine size.  I've attached some photos, any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Sam Hinds

 

2023-02-02_16-36-06_824.heic 2023-02-02_16-36-18_678.heic

[Dave72dt]

Your photos are not coming up for me.  Does due diligence mean you have bore and strike measurements?  Stroke can be measured using the little plug over #6 cyl and a long dowel if the engine will rotate.  Bore will require head removal.