Found a brake drum solution

[Fowl Jeff]

Hello All,

It’s been ages since I posted to the forum, although I follow it regularly. So I wanted to share a solution I found for my brake drums – specifically 11” diameter drums, 2” width, and a 5x4.5 bolt pattern. As many of you know, these are hard to find and very expensive!

This was a journey of countless hours that turned into days and then weeks, with many promising leads that turned into dead ends along with a fair share of mistakes. A couple notable things I tried that didn’t work include:

·         I came across a manufacturer who was willing to make drums for me, but the minimum order size was well over $2,000. I called Gary up at Roberts to see if he’d be interested in going in with me, but even then the price per drum was prohibitive.

·         I contacted a company called “J&G Drum Relining” about relining my existing drums, but the price for doing this was almost $400 each.

·         I bought and subsequently returned several drums – including blank ones that let you drill out your own bolt holes - that looked like they might work. In each case I hit a show-stopper: center (hub) hole too large/small, overall width incorrect, and so on.

Finally I came across a post in a car forum that gave me an idea. Instead of looking for an impossibly narrow 2” drum to fit inside of the backing plate, what about a wider, flared drum that fits around the outside? Bingo! I found one that did the trick after a bit of modification. It’s a finned drum by Raybesto, part number 2955R. It has an outside diameter of 13.62" but the all-important inside diameter is 11”. It has a 5x4.5 bolt pattern and 3” center hole. They’re available on Rockauto for $35 each plus shipping. And now for the details 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Fowl Jeff
clarification

[Fowl Jeff]

First, I had to remove the hubs from my old drums. It goes without saying: be careful! I dimpled the rivets with a punch, drilled them out carefully, knocked the heads off, and tapped them out. Turns out the rivet holes in the hub are 5/16 inch.

[Fowl Jeff]

Now for the new drums. As you can perhaps see from the stock photo, they have an inner lining and just the five bolt holes, but no holes for the rivets. Sadly, the toys I’ve picked up along my truck journey did NOT include a drill press.

[Fowl Jeff]

Being the clever rascal that I am, I laid the original hub in the new drum and the center hole fits PERFECTLY (to the right in the picture). Now just line up the original bolt holes in the hub with the existing ½ inch holes in the drum, thread in the lug bolts, and tighten firmly to lock the hub in position. With this done you can use the existing rivet holes in the hub as a guide and drill out the five holes with a 5/16 bit. My shoulder's a bit sore from patting myself on the back.. :-)

[Fowl Jeff]

At this point there’s still one large challenge. The inner lining on the new drum is about 3/8” too wide and will rub against the backing plate. Fortunately my brother had an old Ammco  brake lathe he let me borrow – in fact the dang thing is still taking up space in my garage. So after watching a few youtube videos, practicing with it, and ruining a few bits along the way; I was able to shave a chunk off the inner lining. Important tip: you can’t do this with the hub bolted to the drum – just mount the new drum into the lathe and get it properly seated so there’s no wobble. PM me if you have any questions about this.

Finally, I was ready to bolt the hub to the drum. There’s not a lot of room inside the drum and if your bolts stick out too far they’ll hit the steel tube that runs between the two brake cylinders. So for this I bought some grade 8 stainless steel low profile 5/16 bolts. I found them on a website called boltdepot.com. Here’s what the finished product looks like.

[Fowl Jeff]

And here’s how it looks mounted to the axle, looking straight down. Notice how the drum protrudes just a bit

[JBNeal]

Excellent work!!!  I ask if riveting the hub to the drum is necessary... On newer brake drums, the drum is held to the hub by the lugnuts and lugstuds clamping the wheel and drum to the hub, with the addition of a push nut on one or two lugstuds to keep the drum from falling off when servicing the tires.  This may also work for this vintage application

[59bisquik]

I have drilled the rivets out of my stock drums and have no issues. The brake shoes hold it on while changing tires with no issues. 

I drilled mine out when switching to wheel studs instead of bolts. With the drum off, it's also easier to pull the hub with a 3 jaw puller.

[Fiddy B2C]

So Fowl Jeff, how much will you charge for prepping the drum and sending out to those of us who need them?

[Fowl Jeff]

Hi Guys,

OK so as for the rivet holes - no argument from me! I agree they're not necessary. That said, I'm content with how my drums turned out. If you look carefully at the pictures above, notice that I left one of the bolts protruding about 1 1/4 inches and ground the threads off. That's because the original drum had a pin here for hanging the wheel on while threading in the lug bolts, and I wanted to emulate this. Plus I figured the original hub was fastened to the drum anyway.

Another mistake I forgot to mention: I tried using shims instead of cutting the inner drum lining. Found a company to make the shims for me and they even drilled out both sets of holes (1/2 and 5/16). BUT - this introduced a couple problems: (a) the lug bolts were too short - which is especially an issue on the reverse-threads, and (b) the farther the hub is away from the drum itself, the more tendency it has to get slightly misaligned and wobble. So I cut the drums and threw away the shims. As I recollect the past few months, I think I did more things wrong than I did right!

Hey Fiddy - I'll give it some thought. Given the posts above about the rivet holes not being needed, that basically leaves you with only needing to cut 3/8 off the inner lining. I suspect any shop that can turn brake drums could do this for you. But if you really need help feel free to PM me and I'll do what I can.

- Fowl Jeff

[B1B Keven]

Excellent write-up! Thanks for taking the time to post this with the pics!

 

[Fiddy B2C]

Great answer to a bunch of drum questions in this post.Thanks FJ!

[Darkrider]

Now if only it were this easy for the bigger trucks lol

[TimO]

Thanks, Fowl Jeff for this information... I've been looking for a long time for new drums.  I look forward to fixing my truck and having decent brakes, after a few years of them being marginal.  Brought the old girl ("Darla") out of the barn last Sunday and the brakes went to the floor.  No more putting it off, now.  Thanks again.

[Fowl Jeff]

You're welcome TimO, good luck with Darla!

[Silverdome]

Any part number that would  fit the 10" drums on cars?

[John-T-53]

Very good information Jeff and thank you for sharing. I have had this subject in the back of my mind over the years, thinking of when my drums will finally become too thin to use.

 

I would recommend riveting the drums to the hubs. This ensures that the lug screws are not absorbing the shear of the drum mounting plate as you brake.

 

5/16" bolts in the rivet holes are a plus over nothing, but the bolts still do not fit tight enough within the holes to make it a completely solid assembly. When rivets are installed, the shank is compressed, which completely fills the holes and any imperfections within, eliminating any slop potential. I believe that this is the reason they were built this way from the factory.

 

If you end up going this route, check the drums on your brake lathe after riveting to ensure trueness.

 

I don't think it's hard to do if you have the correct tools, but I am unsure what type of rivet gun, dies, and where to obtain. I have had little success in finding tools in the rivet dept.

 

A friend of mine has a '65 Chevy truck with 4-wheel drum brakes, and lost two wheels on the road at different times. The lug studs were sheared completely off. His truck originally had them riveted onto the front hubs and rear axle flanges.

[DJ194950]

24 minutes ago, John-T-53 said:

5/16" bolts in the rivet holes are a plus over nothing, but the bolts still do not fit tight enough within the holes to make it a completely solid assembly. When rivets are installed, the shank is compressed, which completely fills the holes and any imperfections within, eliminating any slop potential. I believe that this is the reason they were built this way from the factory.

 

Wonder if anyone on the forum has done the rivet replacement?.

 

After a quick interweb - (Rollins (tv show) sucks, my opinion, Texas is fine)  -search it appears the tools to do such a size solid rivet are available But not cheap and not readily available at the local auto repair parts places to loan! 

My rivets were all ground off when I purchased my 50 Ply. 4 dr. but have not been any problems except when installind wheels (dual pattern) that do not rest on the centers or on missing locating pins. Can be a rear pain at times!

 

DJ

[John Zellmer]

Jeff,

 

I purchased the recommended drums and had the flange machined 3/8" as directed.  Everything is great until I tighten the hub nut.  The tighter the nut, the more the drum rubs and with sufficient torque (about 40 ft-lb) the drum locks.  I installed a homemade 1/8" spacer plate between the drum and hub.  This helps, but doesn't solve the rubbing/lock-up problem.  I've tried placing colored chalk on various surfaces to determine what is rubbing against what, but with limited success.

 

I'm considering increasing the space thickness to 1/4" or having the drum flange machined further.  Any suggestions from anyone before I give the machine another $70??

 

Thanks

 

John

[joenavy85]

On 7/10/2018 at 2:47 PM, John Zellmer said:

Jeff,

 

I purchased the recommended drums and had the flange machined 3/8" as directed.  Everything is great until I tighten the hub nut.  The tighter the nut, the more the drum rubs and with sufficient torque (about 40 ft-lb) the drum locks.  I installed a homemade 1/8" spacer plate between the drum and hub.  This helps, but doesn't solve the rubbing/lock-up problem.  I've tried placing colored chalk on various surfaces to determine what is rubbing against what, but with limited success.

 

I'm considering increasing the space thickness to 1/4" or having the drum flange machined further.  Any suggestions from anyone before I give the machine another $70??

 

Thanks

 

John

Brining the thread back, as I am about to do exactly this. Did you ever get an answer or find a solution to the binding in your drums? I have the recommended drums already, and they will be getting machined later this week. I'm thinking of having a little extra taken off, probably 7/16 instead of 3/8.

[Fiddy B2C]

I know this is a fairly old post, but when I read one that I will eventually end up needing I save a keyword so I can come back to it.  I however just realized that this solution won’t work on my truck as it is for the 1/2 ton trucks and I have a B2C.  I don’t know what I was thinking...I guess I was just so excited to read through such an easy well thought out solution...

 

The drums on ole Fiddy are still In pretty good shape, but I know eventually, I’ll need to figure something out...

[Fred Rascher]

Ver interesting  do you think those drums would fit my 38 Plymouth LT57 ?  not sure of the size yet having a problem getting the  drums off. 

[Crisjr14]

OK going to see if anyone would be able to help me I am also stuck with the same situation on my 53 meadowbrook rear drums could anyone tell me if these bigger drums will work for me I have included some pictures with measurements as well thanks 

[Racerstev]

Has anyone found a 10” drum that will work? 
 

Steve

[Ivan_B]

I've been looking into the 10 inch drums, for a couple of days now. If I understand the objective correctly, at a minimum, we need to find a 10 inch drum with a 5x4-1/2 bolt pattern, which is deep-enough (2 + inches of working surface). While the rest (center hub hole and the total depth) can be adjusted at a place with a large lathe. Is that right?

Here are a couple of quick options I found:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=667749&cc=1132164&pt=1744&jsn=991 1973 Maverick, $40

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=6902340&cc=1372676&pt=1744&jsn=1130 2001 Ranger, $37

The first one has a smaller center hole and bolt holes, than the second one.

 

Does anyone have a 10 inch OEM drum to play around with, to approximate how these will fit? All of my are currently installed on the car, but I would sure like to procure some spare drums for future use