1949 pilot house

[Los_Control]

Like to say hello, this is my first post here. Been reading for the past couple days and what a amazing source of info. Thank you very much.

I have not yet pulled the trigger and made the deal for the 49 dodge. Will be honest with you, have watched this red headed step child, sit in the corner of my uncles yard for over 25 years.

I have been looking for a flathead ford truck for some time, I had a 1951 ford flatty v8 when I was in high school.

Last weekend, I helped my uncle move Molly to another spot in the yard, (yeah I named her already) She really impressed me. She is an all original, un-butchered titled 1949 1/2 ton pilot house.

I found 3 rust spots in the cab, 1 under the rear window at the bottom of the cab, easy repair, 1 at the drivers door top hinge, and 1 pin hole in the floor.

It still has carpet in it, over the top of the original rubber mat, probably will find more when removed.

All the gauges and chrome look to be in excellent condition and a easy interior restore, Odometer shows 96k miles, will assume is original and not 196k.

No radio and still has original cover where radio would be installed.

I need to check the motor, think it to be the original 218 with factory 4 speed. Clutch feels good and goes through all gears. Have not attempted to turn motor over.

It is complete with the oil bath airfilter, original radiator horn unmolested wiring, just looks all original and untouched.

Uncle bought it for $300 years ago and drove it to where it was parked. He has over 2 acres with old trucks and cars, you know the type 

I believe it was a factory flatbed, it has no bed and short cab length running boards.

It comes with a complete 1952 parts truck with no title, all the sheet metal is rusted, flathead 6 with a 3speed trans, trans top was removed years ago and most likely why it was parked.

Again it has short cab length running boards and no bed.

And there is a complete bed sitting on a 1/2 ton frame, looks like someone planned to make a utility trailer and cut the frame and cab off. Gas tank, rearend stock wheels and hubcaps tailgate all there.

Needs a little body work for dings and such, but no rust and decent original black paint. It needs all new flooring and it has the tall sides on it, believe to be correct for the 49.

Now uncle told me that he was going to take the 1949 and put the bed on it, give it to his niece for yard art and plant flowers in the back of it.

He was serious , He owns a few 55 ford trucks, 52 ford, 47 ford, old flathead internationals that he drives, 55 packard, 53 plymouth wagon 60's chrysler 300's, 46 chevy truck, couple 49's a 57 with corvette 327. He was going to make a flower pot out of the dodge.

I talked him out of doing that I think, I looked up on craigslist all over the country for trucks to compare it to, I told him what they were asking for them.

He seems to think he should be able to get $1500 for what he has then, I think I would like to be the one to give it to him.

He is 80 years old, trying to get his house in shape. Idea is, when he passes, will be less for his kids to take care of. I am a retired remodel carpenter and he wants to pay me, I want to buy his truck ... Is this how it all starts?

Going back over there tomorrow, need to make a decision if I want to deal for the truck or not. I am currently remodeling a 1947 travel trailer for him, then he wants to start on the house after.

Any idea how to explain this to the wife? Honey, I have met Molly and she is going to be taking up some of my time.

Anyways I just wanted to say hello, wonder if you have any advice for me on what to look for, how to go about getting the truck to start ... if it will, or have the other engine also to work with.

Any links you might share that would help me etc.

I plan to put some oil in the cylinders before attempting to turn them over, thought about hooking a gas can up to the carb and see what happens.

My only goal so far is to make a daily driver/grocery getter. Not a total restore or show truck.

[B1B Keven]

Welcome! Love the story, thanks. Save Molly!! Bring her home.

Though, I'm kinda partial to the '49's.   My old truck:

 

[Merle Coggins]

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like a good project to go after. 

Check the tag on the drivers side A pillar, between the hinges, for the model number. I wouldn't be so sure it's a 1/2 ton truck if it has short running boards and has/had a flat bed. More likely a 3/4 ton truck. B-1-B would be a 1/2 ton. B-1-C would be a 3/4 ton. 

Merle

[Los_Control]

Good info and thank you, I say 1/2 ton because of the 5 on 4.1/2"  bolt pattern, but maybe the older dodges had 3/4 ton with 5 lug?

I did notice that the rear leaf packs on the 52 parts truck, were considerably smaller and softer then the huge stack the 49 has.

I kinda wrote this off as having overloads, could be it is a 3/4 ton. I will check the tag, both trucks do have the tags. And both have the short running boards.

The 3rd frame with the bed, has the long running boards.

Will go back out there tomorrow to get some work done and take some pics while am there.

I know where to expect to find the numbers on the engine blocks, identify them. I am wondering if a number on the rear axles to identify the gear ratio?

Wonder if checking the vin number would be a more complete way? I dunno. But thanks for the tip, I saw the tags but had no idea what they were telling me.

[B1B Keven]

3/4 tons had 5 on 5 bolt pattern with 15 inch wheels.

Edited September 23, 2016 by B1B Keven
Opps. Typed too fast.

[Merle Coggins]

No VIN as we know it today. Only a chassis serial number on the tag. There is also an engine number on a machined surface just above the generator, at the top of the block. The chassis serial number is also stamped into the left front frame rail above the axle. There usually is a number stamped into the differential housing too, that would identify the gear ratio. Sometimes at the very top, and sometimes on a flat spot on one side. You can do a forum search for some of these things as they come up often.

Also, other differences between the 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks to look for. A 1/2 ton truck would have 5 X 4.5" lug pattern with lug bolts. A 3/4 ton truck would have 5 X 5" lug pattern with studs and lug nuts. A 1/2 ton truck would have 108" wheel base, whereas a 3/4 tonner would have a 116" WB. They would both have the same engine. A 218 CID flat head 6 cyl. with a T172 engine number. Front and rear axles are basically the same except for the hubs and springs.

Merle

[JBNeal]

If it has a valid title and is in good condition, 1500 could be a good price...I've gone through the bonded title process with TXDoT and just thinking about it makes the top of my noggin warm up, so if a title is in hand, that piece of paper is worth a lot of time that ya don't have to mess with infuriating apathetic govt clock watchers...btw Marvel Mystery Oil is your friend

[ggdad1951]

SAVE MOLLY!  SAVE HER WE SAY!  

 

THEN POST PICTURES!  we LOVE pictures!

 

Welcome!

[Los_Control]

Well, I got the wifes ok, she told me .... Ride her one time , and you going to have her move in huh?    

I showed her B!B kevens truck and she liked it. I went over to uncle's place today, but was just not a good day to discuss trucks.

Been a ongoing property dispute with the neighbor, uncle was at the lawyers yesterday and the surveyor was out today. All went well and just like uncle told the kid in the first place.

The surveyor drove a stake in the irrigation line and caused a flood, neighbors called the cops cause they did not like the surveyor telling them where the true property lines were ... just a mess. All day was one thing after another.

 

I got a few pics while I was out there. not messing with things to much until we make a deal. I found a crank that fits through the grill and the motor, stuffed it in the cab.

Pretty tight where it is parked, either stand back and take pics, or get real close. I took a pic of the number off the engine block on the 1949, not sure what it means.

I did see the bottom of the doors have some rust, I did not see it the first time. The 49 is a B1C, The 52 parts truck with no title, is a 1/2 ton but the tag is missing off the A pillar.

Anyway here is a few pics to give idea what I am looking at, until I own them, I am not doing anything. I am a nuub so the site will only allow me to add a couple pics, will have to make another post.

 

[Los_Control]

engine number

[Los_Control]

more engine, rats nest in carb then the bed

[Los_Control]

the parts truck engine I did not get the number off of it.

[Los_Control]

Had better pics, wanted to show the rust in the front sheetmetal, but they did not turn out for some reason.

Anyway here is a good idea of the 1949 I want to fix. and the parts that go with it.

I mentioned to uncle that the grille was gone in the 52, He claimed he had some of that around also.

He has a pile of doors and hoods near by, is another pilot house hood in the pile so who knows.

He has one shed with just good tires and wheels, another shed with alternators, generators, heads and intakes, One shed is full of complete running engines and working trans,

iirc, think he does have one shed with just chrome and grilles, headlights and tail lights etc.

[Merle Coggins]

Well, you confirmed my theory. The '49 is a 3/4 ton. But not to worry. It'll actually ride a little nicer with the longer wheel base. The bad news is that they bed on the chopped frame is for a 1/2 ton. So to make it fit you'd either have to shorten the frame on the 3/4 ton truck, or stretch the bed sides to add a few inches.

As for the engine... I believe D5 would be a Dodge car engine from the late 30's or early 40's. But it sounds like you may have other engine choices available.

Good luck with this new adventure. I'm sure we are all looking forward to seeing the progress.

BTW... You may want to find yourself a copy of this book. It's a great research tool for these trucks.

[Los_Control]

Actually I like that news, I have not yet told uncle I wanted to deal for the dodge. He still wants to make a flower pot out of the 49 B1C.

He has a 1954 1/2 ton ford truck roller, I think it would make a perfect flower pot.

His opinion is, there's a million of those old fords out there, nobody has one like the dodge .... so we will see.

When he finds out the 1/2 ton bed wont fit as is, he will have to use the 1/2 ton parts truck.

I think the value of the 1949 just went down, And as a carpenter, I like a nicely made flatbed.

I will approach him on a deal soon, but try to find out as much as I can first .... like what motor is in the 1/2 ton.

 

Thanks again for the info, I read about the wheel base difference and you told me about it, still did not know for sure if the bed was a B1B or not.

[Los_Control]

Like to thank JBNeal for the photo. I really had no idea that molly was the hunter green. Under all the years cruft.

I finally had a chance to talk with uncle today and tell him my intentions with Molly were true.

He seems to want to sell me the better of the 2, the 52 1/2 ton with the bed, and I still want Molly with no bed and build one.

I just said lets sleep on it, Will see you tomorrow and we talk then.

I am a future owner of a mopar flathead 6 truck   \o/

 

 

[Los_Control]

Ok, game on!

I let uncle settle down over the property dispute deal, and then approached him with the deal, trade my labor for molly.

He is very pleased to do it, happy to see someone in the family fix it up. And save him some cash at the same time.

The picture below is not molly, we will call it "flower pot"

I will push it straight back where the bed is, and switch the bed off the frame onto flower pot.

I checked the engine, and it is the original 1952 flathead, numbers start with T306, I will pull the motor to eventually put in the 49.

I could use some ideas on what all to keep. Just plan on making it a roller, and the girl wants it for yard art, will never be driven again.

Sometimes it would be real easy to forget a important piece that I may need later and very difficult to find.

I plan to keep, motor, radiator, heater, maybe the fuel tank. I was also given another plymouth flathead 6 that was in the truck that the bed is coming from.

Gives me 3 218 flathed sixes to work with.

I pulled the plugs on molly today and put some oil in the holes, give it a couple days to do it's work, before trying to turn it by hand.

I also found some more rust in the cab today, nothing to bad, just another thing to fix.

Second photo is the newly found rust, When you close the door, you can see that cab corner move.

It sits nice and flush and hard to see, for the photo I am actually holding it in my left hand and pushing it back to expose it. I just thought it was a odd place to rust myself.

[Jeff Balazs]

I can't quite tell but from the photo it looks like maybe that area was a low spot that water would set in. At any rate it surely shows the importance of getting these cabs sealed up good when you restore it.

Hey have fun with your new project.........they are very nice trucks when you get them back on the road.

Jeff

Oh yes....save everything you can from these trucks. If there are extra doors etc......get anything even remotely useful off them before it gets turned into a flower pot.

[Dave72dt]

That gives me more the impression of a cut than rust.  It looks too straight but maybe the pic is deceiving.

[Los_Control]

That was my first impression, or maybe a stress crack that was common with these years.

13 hours ago, Jeff Balazs said:

I can't quite tell but from the photo it looks like maybe that area was a low spot that water would set in. At any rate it surely shows the importance of getting these cabs sealed up good when you restore it.

After reading this from Jeff, and thinking of the rust on the back of the cab. They are all inline with each other and basically floor height.

I expect to find more surprises under there, when I get all the original flooring and rug up, seat removed and all cleaned and swept out.

Water would get in through the broken glass, and sit on the floor in this area. Makes me concerned about the cab mounts to the frame back there.

I am naive, in thinking this will just be work and a few extra steps to repair, the cab will be off anyways and all flat metal and easy to duplicate.

As long as it is a solid welded patch panel, wont bother me if it does not look 100% original. Very few would be able to see it or tell the difference anyways.

And I will need a area like this to practice on, before I tackle the rust on the bottom of the door skins. 

[48Dodger]

Molly is a deluxe cab meaning, corner windows, and vents (door). She is missing a grille bar, but not the hard to find 4th one. She has the hood ornament and good usable trim all around. She's missing the wiper switch, but seems to still have the wiper set up.

You'll notice that Flower Pot and Molly have different hoods. 51-53 have a body line along the mating point of the hood/fender. The door body lines are different too. 48-50 bodyline goes right to the door jam. The 1/2 ton frames differ as well. Just subtle differences, mostly mounting points. The wiper arm locations are different too. 

If you prefer the 48-50 look over the silly looking 51-53 look (haha) you could put the 49 cab on the 52 1/2 ton frame. Then fit the 108 wheel base bed on it and have a great truck.

Otherwise, the 52 is a great truck too. Just know there's not a lot of body interchange between the two.

Glad to hear you're saving both!

48D          

[Jeff Balazs]

4 hours ago, 48dodger said:

If you prefer the 48-50 look over the silly looking 51-53 look (haha) you could put the 49 cab on the 52 1/2 ton frame. Then fit the 108 wheel base bed on it and have a great truck.

Otherwise, the 52 is a great truck too. Just know there's not a lot of body interchange between the two.

Glad to hear you're saving both!

48D          

Silly looking? Oy vay Tim. Clearly you are confused. That early front grill is the #1 reason to call your truck the flying brick.

[48Dodger]

8 minutes ago, Jeff Balazs said:

Silly looking? Oy vay Tim. Clearly you are confused. That early front grill is the #1 reason to call your truck the flying brick.

lol....."The Brick"...its only flying if I lose down force and grab some air....which I'm pretty sure would happen with a 51-53 grille!!!

48DownForce

[ggdad1951]

tim, you shut your fool mouth!

[Jeff Balazs]

44 minutes ago, ggdad1951 said:

tim, you shut your fool mouth!

Amen Brother!

Tim...... everyone knows that with the later grill all you need is to build a Hall (ala Chaparral) effect skirt and ducting and at least 200 mph is possible.