I promise I read through all the past threads.... Pertronix confusion with pictures

[Tatback]

I'm confused as to the instructions. After breaking down last week (bad coil, no spark) the wife ordered me the pertronix kit and coil as it was on my goodies list.

I'm trying to install it but I'm confused as to the coil +/- Orientation and the connection of the wires.

Here are the included instructions. (48 251 positive ground)

And here is my current coil and wiring configuration. In the picture the positive side of the coil is on the left. On the negative (right) side of the coil that single green wire connects to a plate in the distrubitor.

The other two on the left (positive side of the coil) I have no idea where they go.

The instructions say only two wires should be attached to the coil at the end.

Please help as I'm lost and have no idea where to go.

Oh and the obligatory side of the road pic

[DonaldSmith]

I'll have to go out to my car (hibernating in the garage) to see how I hooked up my Pertronix wiring.

 

Stay tuned.

 

 

[Jeff Balazs]

Ok you have a ignition lead coming from your ignition switch going into the trigger. Then the lead off the trigger goes to the negative side of the coil. The positive side of the coil is a lead to ground.

That is all there is to it. No other wires needed including distributor ground. Pay attention to the wire size as it should not be more than I believe 18ga.

Jeff

[casper50]

you need to find out where those extra wires go or just hook them back up the way they are.

[Dodgeb4ya]

The other wires are part of the M-5 transmission wiring.

[DonaldSmith]

Here are photos of my installation, 6-volt, positive ground. 

 

Ignitor in distributor:  Remove the points, condenser and wires.  The eccentric screw (to the right of the igniter) interferes with the igniter.  Cut back the igniter base or the screw.  The igniter has two little studs that fit in the screw holes for the points.  The two igniter wires have to fit where the one wire came in.  I cut out part of the grommet for the wires.   The black wire goes back to the ignition switch.  The white wire goes to the negative (-) post of the coil.  The positive (+) post has a wire going to chassis ground or battery (+) post. 

 

 

Now, I have the M-5 semi-automatic transmission, so I was concerned with providing the ignition interruption for the shifting.  I called Pertronix.  They said, put a 7-ohm, 5-watt resister in the circuit from the PRI (primary) contact of the transmission relay to the negative (-) post of the coil.  this shorts out the ignition for the shifting, without frying the igniter. 

 

I found a 7-ohm, 12.5 watt resistor from Mouser Electronics, an RH0107R000FC02, 3 bucks plus 7 bucks for shipping.  I checked with Pertronix and they said that 12.5 watt would be OK.

 

So I have two wires coming out of the distributor, the black to ignition and the white-black to the (-) post of the coil.

I have two wires to the (-) post of the coil, the white-black wire from the igniter in the distributor, and the wire from the 7-ohm resistor in the circuit back to the PRI post of the transmission relay.   

I have one wire from the (+) post of the coil to ground. 

 

 

A picture is worth a thousand words, but some photos need a few words to explain what's going on.   The (+) post to the left at the top has one wire to ground.  The (-) post has the thin white-black wire from the igniter and the wire to the resistor and transmission relay.  The resistor is mounted on the frame, on a heat sink.   Below the coil the thin black wire to ignition is somewhat visible.   (My photo got rotated from the position I wanted, sort of looking over the fender.  I hate it when that happens.)

Edited January 30, 2016 by DonaldSmith

[Tatback]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

And a huge THANK YOU to DonaldSmith for that incredible answer. I will have to cut the wire ties and see where everything goes. Seems like the guy who sold it to me changed a few things around, I'll have to straighten those out before I proceed.

I'll be diving in tomorrow and tackling all of this. Hopefully.... A cruise will be in order tomorrow night.

[Tatback]

Don... This is where I'm getting really confused. In the wiring diagram I have, it shows the PRI for the Trans Relay wired to the positive (+) side of the coil.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I saw you searching the threads this morning...I knew something was up.....

[DonaldSmith]

My wiring diagram also shows the PRI going to the positive side.  Hmmmm. Of course!

 

Conventional ignition system:  Ignition circuit to the (-) pole of the coil - "Hot"always on.   Ground circuit through the points back through the block to the (+) post of the battery- circuit intermittent with the distributor lobes.  Points break, coil fires.

 

Pertronix:  Ground to the (+) positive pole of the coil - always grounded - negative from ignition circuit, black wire interrupted by igniter, to white-black wire to the (-) post of the coil.  Igniter breaks he circuit, coil fires.

 

So, the Pertronix is the opposite of the conventional.  

[dale]

Conventional coil hookup plus or minus doesnt really matter I believe. By the picture it looks like he could use a Pertronics high output coil.

[Jeff Balazs]

I am curious why the ignition needs to be interrupted on this type of set up? Seems like something that has the capacity to cause problems......at least with the trigger system.

 

Jeff

[mopar_earl]

I am curious why the ignition needs to be interrupted on this type of set up? Seems like something that has the capacity to cause problems......at least with the trigger system.

Jeff

The semi automatic trans won't downshift if the ignition isn't cut out. It causes the trans to not be under load so it can down shift.

Earl

[soth122003]

Hey Tat,

 

When Don says to cut back on the igniter base or the screw, I would cut back on the ignitor base. This is just in case you have to switch back to points and condensor. My Pertronix unit failed after a year and a half, but I reinstalled the points and condensor and was on my way again.

 

Joe

[DonaldSmith]

I second the emotion.  Cut back the base, not the screw.  Pertronix said to remove the screw, but it wouldn't come out.  in my frustration, I attacked the screw it with the Dremel.  I left enough screw to allow reinstallation of the points.  

Edited June 15, 2017 by DonaldSmith
typo

[Tatback]

Hahaha.... Remember when I said I read through all the past threads before posting? Well... I followed suit and attacked the screw with a dremel as well before even posting lol

I guess if all my friends jump off a bridge I do too.

But I do appreciate the heads up and will be carrying the points and condenser along, just incase.

I did get a flamethrower coil as well to replace this one.

[knuckleharley]

>>Oh and the obligatory side of the road pic<<

 

 

The good news is your car looks really good. It would look better without a tow rope hooked to it,of course,but it still looks good.

[CoronetGuy]

Curious to see how this works out for you. I had a local guy install my pertronix kit. Ever since then, the gyromatic will not downshift like it should. And we haven't been able to figure out a way to correct it.

 

Oddly enough, if i'm sitting at a street light for a long time, it will sometimes downshift on its own. If I put it in neutral, then put it back into driving range, it will be downshifted in the correct gear. What ive been doing in the meantime if I do a rolling stop or are making a quick right turn, I would shift to low range while I'm below 7mph then accelerate and shift back to driving range at about 25mph. I've gotten used to it so it doesn't bother me all that much but my wife hasn't been able to quite figure it out and so she doesn't want to drive it anymore

[Tatback]

I haven't been able to test it out yet. I did call Pertronix on the phone and probably talked (frustrated) the guy for 20-30 mins about my wiring. I can list the steps that he gave me if you would like. He did tell me that I did not need a resistor so we'll see how it goes without one. DonaldSmith installed a resistor in his setup and hasn't mentioned a problem.  CoronetGuy, maybe the lack of resistor is the problem? 

[DonaldSmith]

Update, May 30, etc.  Pertronix working sweet(ly).

 

Earlier, I had no-go with the Pertronix installed.  I had read that the timing might have to be advanced, so I advanced the timing a good chunk, and began to get some engine running, but not good. Things stunk.  Poor driveability.  No fun.

 

The other day, i  fiddled with advancing the timing some more.  I got 16 inches of vacuum instead of 5, but not yet good.  Poor idling and acceleration. 

 

I discovered that the distributor was stopped from turning further by an interference between the oil filler tube and the vacuum tubing to the vacuum advance mechanism.  A little prying on the tubing, and the distributor was free to turn more (counterclockwise, of course). I hit the sweet spot, 20 inches of vacuum, good idling, good acceleration, fun again. 

 

Never mind that the vibration damper shows extreme retarding.   Damper rebuild for another day. 

[Jeff Balazs]

Doesn't seem correct to me. My Pertronix trigger works fine within the proper timing marks. Perhaps the kit you have is not the correct one for the distributor you have? It seems more likely to me that the trigger is not positioned in the right location in relationship to the magnetic sleeve......and that is what is causing the need to be off the timing marks. If that is the case it can't be doing your engine any good.

 

Jeff

[DonaldSmith]

I don't have a magnetic sleeve.  The trigger must read the lobes.  The trigger dropped in where the point assembly was.  Maybe I got the trigger too far counter-clockwise;  I did have to trim the eccentric screw.

But hey, it's working, runs sweet, no overheating, no pinging.

 

The timing marks is (are?) another issue.   

[DJ194950]

Where the timing marks properly positioned when running the points Ignition??

 

DJ

[DonaldSmith]

My timing may have been way off for the points ignition.  I remember trying to get the piston at top dead center and seeing when the points would close and a test light would come on. But things got out of hand.  At one point the timing was so far off that a backfire blew the muffler apart.  So I don't really know where the timing is with TDC, but the engine is running nicely now.

 

Lately, my mechanical abilities seem to be compromised by the ease at which I forget important steps.  The news is that the car is running nicely now.  Don't ask me how.

[CoronetGuy]

Update: Never installed the resistor in my pertronix wiring. 3 Weeks ago the car just randomly died as I pulled up to a stop. Strangely enough, that day and the previous day the trans was shifting as it was supposed to about 90% of the time. Car has no spark at the plugs. I have spark at the coil. The engine and trans wiring was already in pretty sad shape. So I dropped the $$ on an engine and trans harnesses from Rhode Island Wiring. Car still has no spark. I'm thinking the Pertronix failed. Any tips on how to test the Pertronix?