P15 Motor Serial Used for VIN vs Body Number - DMV Screw Up?

[Furylee2]

This is where it's locate on a 41 Plymouth frame.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I would be very concerned if the engine number was stamped is such a place that it can only be seen with the body removed from the frame...this does not seem right..

[48DeSotoCustom]

It's good to know that ma mopar did stamp engine numbers into the frames and thanks to all those on here that shared the location. While in the process of having the vin changed on my title I could only find frame rail part numbers. Now when I pull the frame from the body I know where to look.

[James_Douglas]

I would be very concerned if the engine number was stamped is such a place that it can only be seen with the body removed from the frame...this does not seem right..

Well,

 

Given the fact that the car in question was purchased new by my mother.  I know for a fact the man who purchased it in 1970 across town never drove it. I was the one who pulled it from behind 15 other mopars in his shop where he stored it for 31 years.  I know that the body had never been taken off the frame.

 

That is the spot where Desoto stamped the number.

 

James.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Dominic had your 1949 DeSoto? Green ?... I saw it there years ago.

[James_Douglas]

Dominic had your 1949 DeSoto? Green ?... I saw it there years ago.

 

Yep that is the one.  Mom got it new in 1949.  I came home in that car from the hospital.  Hell, I got my first kiss in the back seat of the car when I was like 9 or 10 with it sitting in my garage.

I tried to get it back from him for years.  It never moved from that back corner of his #1 shop.  It was the first car in. 

 

I just finished today assembling the replacement engine.  I HATE having to pull the engine from a restored car.  My guess is that with it sitting for 30 plus years, even though he drained it, that we got some cancer in the bottom of one of the water jackets and that is where the oil is pumping into water jacket.

 

Dom was something!

 

James

[denmopar]

A few years back, I was going to buy a nice '54 Savoy from a TV personality in Mass. (Steve Magnante.) Came to find out the Mass.

title had the body number (from the cowl,) not the VIN (from the left-front door jam.) Not Steve's error...Previous owner's.

That gave me the jitters and I backed out of the deal....Too bad, as that Savoy was a clean original. I wasn't about to get in a possible quandry with NY DMV to get it straightened out....

May have been simple to fix, but after doing some similar battles with New Jersey's DMV years before, I chickened out.

[fedoragent]

My 1949 Desoto which was my late mothers and I got it back 48 months ago...

 

Was first sold to her in VA new in 1949.  The car was driven, by her to California in 1956.

 

The it went to collector who sat on it from 1970 until I pulled it from his shop, not register by him, a few years back.

 

The California paperwork had the engine number and not the body number.  My 1947 Desoto sold new in CA had the body number by the way.

 

I had to do some paperwork with THE SPECIAL PROCESSING UNIT OF CA DMV, to get them to swap it.  A California Highway Patrol, not local police, had to come to my house and confirm the number on the door.  Then send it off to them and they made the change.

 

Call the SPU not the local office or the 800 number as they do not know anything and 1/2 of everything they think they know is wrong.

 

These are all the numbers I have for the SPU.  May be good may not.

 

 

800-777-0133

916-657-6560

916-657-7654

916-657-8506 or 8099

 

Good luck.

 

James

James,

 

FYI, called over to the DMV today and they gave me another number for CA DMV to check YOM plates status:  916-657-8035.  Might want to add that to your list.

 

Thanks,

Jon

[Dartgame]

My coupe was from out of state and the engine number was used for the vin. When I applied for the Illinois title the state requested an inspection. In order to get the the title the body number on the drivers door post was then used, instead of the engine number. Pain in the butt because I had to take it into the Secretary of State police for the inspection. At least they were fast and efficient in this instance. (Contrary to most of my experiences.)

[Voyager_1700]

On 12/17/2015 at 2:07 PM, knuckleharley said:

I think you had better fix it right now while it is fresh and you are able to fix it. Some states,like Va,used motor serial numbers instead of chassis or body numbers,and now some states,like NC,will refuse to give you a title if if the car or truck you bought in Va has a clear title using the motor number,and that motor is still in the chassis if it doesn't match the chassis and body (if applicable) numbers. I know a guy in that position right now. IF you sell the car to someone and they are unable to get a title,they can sue you for fraud.

 

Yes,I know about the Interstate Commerce Clause and how it would apply in cases like this and nullify any NC DMV laws,but the NC DMV doesn't seem to give a damn because nobody can really afford to hire a lawyer to sue the state without spending 10+ times the value of the vehicle,and then end up losing because they have to sue the state in a state court,and then appeal it to a federal court after losing.

 

Plus the state employees doing this can't even be fired,never mind sued personally for violating your rights.

Please tell me that guy in NC got it squared away.. very similar boat.. I just bought a 34 Plymouth Coupe and it's a resto mod and there aren't any tags on it.. NJ titled it with the engine serial number.. I have a bad feeling this is gonna be a long up hill battle.  

 

[Sniper]

In Texas the engine number is used for the VIN. I ran into a similar concerned when I got my 51, back then it was the engine number used, except on Fords.  I talked to my county tax assessor, that's who handles this stiff, about what to do when I swap in my 230 I am building, she was very helpful and gave me the documentation I needed to deal with an engine swap.

 

 

[joecoozie]

Here's a good one.

I once bought a 1940 Buick from a storage unit. The guy from the storage place got a title BUT he used the intake manifold part number as the VIN.

I quickly resolved the issue by calling DMV and explaining the situation (several times) to them

Filled out a form for changing VIN on title and had a garage sign off on it. It worked out okay

 

As far as the original posters issue it would be totally up to him.

BUT

The problem is that some states do not accept the engine number on a title as valid and some states do.

If someone from one of the states that does not accept the engine number ever wants to buy the car that could be an issue.

[Sniper]

12 minutes ago, joecoozie said:

If someone from one of the states that does not accept the engine number ever wants to buy the car that could be an issue.

 

The various states know how other states title vehicles.  If there is an issue they have ways to deal with it.  However, the issue maybe that the person at the DMV, or your state's equivalent, might not know those things.  So it might behoove you to do some research to "help" them do their jobs, lol.

[rcl700]

On 12/17/2015 at 10:42 PM, Plymouthy Adams said:

both are true identifications...depends on what the state used at the time when processing the certificate of origin...I have no clue what my car was or was not process with....state of Georgia did not issues titles till after 62 and to this day will not issue a title for a car 62 and back.....don't care where it comes from or what title you may have now...it WILL become a broken chain title if it passes through GA

Question on GA. I now have what was my father's 48' but it has not run is so long he can't seem to find the pink

slip

 Can I just get him to give me a bill or sale,  notarized to register in GA? 

[JerseyHarold]

19 hours ago, rcl700 said:

Question on GA. I now have what was my father's 48' but it has not run is so long he can't seem to find the pink

slip

 Can I just get him to give me a bill or sale,  notarized to register in GA? 

If the California title is lost, why not apply for a replacement title from the Califorina DMV.  If they want to physically examine the car, explain that it is being stored at a relative's house in Georgia.  Maybe a Georgia law enforcement official, or DMV employee, would be sufficient for VIN verification.