Daily driver.........first impressions.

[Dave72dt]

The other day before it became like a rain forest here, went for a drive on a real windy day.

On the highway from a dead stop, going against the wind, had to floor it to get to speed 100 kmh or 62 mph, had a hard time climbing to speed, but once there no problem. Now with a lot of traffic on a 2 lane highway with most doing 65-70 mph, this ain't fun.

I am wondering why this engine is so sucked out at times, it does not burn oil, runs well enough. I just seems to not breath well enough and rev fast enough. Now is this the results of a 3.23 rear gear, or a tired engine?

Easy test. Next time ,turn the truck around and see if it makes it up to speed any faster. 3.23's into a steady head wind is similar to going uphill. You're trying to push a wall of air. Find some 3.50ish gears or put in the 318

[55 Fargo]

My '52 1/2 ton has a 3.0 rear end and a 251 Chrysler engine with a 4 speed.  I never use 1st unless there's a stump to be pulled. I've never had a problem starting out on a steep hill in second gear.  I can cruise on the freeway at 65 all day.

Old Yeller.jpg

Hi Reg, you have what I basically have a 251, granny 4 spd, and mine is a 3.23 set of gears. Now with yours, how do you find it turning onto a highway or busy roadway, and you need to get to 60-65 mph in a hurry? I really find mine lacking say on those windy days, getting on the highway, and some idiot is not far away doing 70 mph, and me trying to get to 60-65 mph, as fast as I can.

Reg how do you find the pickup from a dead stop, mine is lacking at times, maybe something wrong with mine.

 

My rear end gears are very close to Reg's , I have a 2.94 from a Dakota and I like it real well . My engine is a 218 and fairly fresh . Three speed trans . 28 inch diameter tires . 

Repeat question for you too Jerry, how do you find performance off the line, or when you have to get to speed ASAP..

[Reg Evans]

Not a problem for the truck to get rolling from a dead start.  My driveway for the first 700' is a bit more than a 16% uphill grade. Piece of cake !

My rear end came from a 66 T-bird and was stamped 3.0 however I've never opened it up to see if it truly is.

The  50 Chrysler 251 transplant was rebuilt probably 20 years ago and at the most has 30,000 miles on it.  Last time I checked the compression it was around 110 psi on all cylinders.

Back then I dropped the engine off at our local Kragen Auto and in a few weeks they returned it to me rebuilt for $1000.  They told me they sent it off to some place in Arizona.

Still running strong......knock on wood.

[Jeff Balazs]

There are so many variables with these trucks that it would be hard to say that a particular gearing is going to work best.

With my truck I have found that the 3.55 gearing is not optimum for the slower speed driving I have to do each day. It seems fine at speeds around 50 and higher but on hills at speeds below this I find it annoyingly sluggish. Just not enough power to lug it so I spend a lot of time rowing through the gears. Not my favorite thing when combined with crappy stop and go driving. It is not horrible because I have a relatively short commute........but it is nothing special either. It would get real old stuck in a lengthy surface street commute.

 

So what is the answer? Not sure yet. Obviously more power would help........but then I wonder what it would be like with a nice non overdrive 5 speed. Would an extra gear help it out a lot? Or is it a matter of just more power? Wish it was easier to just try 3.73 gearing. I do like the general feel of the truck but I can't help feeling it is not quite optimum as it is now.

 

Jeff

[Reg Evans]

What are the many variables with these trucks that you mention ? 

[Jeff Balazs]

What are the many variables with these trucks that you mention ? 

Well Reg........how about condition of the engine......and for that matter displacement? Then there are the differences between the models......weight .....wheelbase....etc. Mine has a fluid drive 4 speed. Others a three on the tree.  How about non standard items? Even tire diameter comes into play. And then there are the driving conditions and climate which can be very different for each of us. I think a 1/2 ton with a fresh large displacement engine is going to react very differently to a gearing swap than say a tired 218 1 ton. This is what I am talking about when I mention variables.

 

Jeff

[55 Fargo]

Well hijinks at it's best today. Wife and Daughter have the "Flu" real bad, so was looking after them for the bulk of the day.

Late in the afternoon, pulled out Fargo ran her a bit drove down road to neighbours farm and back, parked truck outside.

Little while later start truck, it starts, then stalls and will not start again, oh **** now what.

I was a little or a lot low on gas, so primed carb, nope, pulled fuel line off carb, fuel pump works great BTW. Carb bowl full, accelerator pump pumpin gas, nice solid streams.

Meanwhile, I had already primed carb with more gas, no start, and run battery down, so it's getting late in the day and gettin cool, so gonna pull out 4 WD ATV, it won't start, battery low, this is a 1 year old machine, but I hardly drive it, so charge it up and start, leaving battery tender on from now on. I then pushed the Fargo back in the shop, did the ignition tests, ballast is fine, coil tested fine on meter,tried a different coil and wire, still no starting or firing, WTF.

Have son watch dummy sparkplug, as I crank engine, no spark.

I pull dizzy, and see point gap moved in again, tightened up little wire and condenser connection. The US made older points,I have in this dizzy are not the best, sorta misaligned, have tried to straighten them, but should be replaced.

Install dizzy, put cap back on, and still no fire, then hook up wire from dizzy to coil, bazinga, she fires up like nothing.

The darn crappy points closed up the gap, no wonder she would' start.

Drove truck tonight in pitch dark down through Deer country to the highway, 65 mph no problem still a bit slow getting there, and still some rear driveline vibes. Now ain't this fun............

Edited November 8, 2015 by Fargos-Go-Far

[HanksB3B]

What rpm is your engine turning when you drive 65 mph ?

 

Hank 

[55 Fargo]

2600

[Jeff Balazs]

Fred;

Obviously the points are the weak item in this situation. I came to this conclusion fairly early on with my build. Even in the best conditions they are subject to failure or degradation from a variety of sources. Dirt....moisture....movement.....metal transfer.....wear. This is why I decided to eliminate them altogether and use a Pertronix trigger instead. It is just simpler and in my opinion much less prone to failure. One sealed component with no moving parts and two conections outside of the distributor. No more fiddly ground wire or condenser either. Just this trigger and a matched coil is going to give all the spark you will ever need with one of these engines. I think this installation truly is in keeping with basic simplicty of the overall design of these trucks.

 

Jeff

[55 Fargo]

Fred;

Obviously the points are the weak item in this situation. I came to this conclusion fairly early on with my build. Even in the best conditions they are subject to failure or degradation from a variety of sources. Dirt....moisture....movement.....metal transfer.....wear. This is why I decided to eliminate them altogether and use a Pertronix trigger instead. It is just simpler and in my opinion much less prone to failure. One sealed component with no moving parts and two conections outside of the distributor. No more fiddly ground wire or condenser either. Just this trigger and a matched coil is going to give all the spark you will ever need with one of these engines. I think this installation truly is in keeping with basic simplicty of the overall design of these trucks.

 

Jeff

Yes well I agree, with your post, I was able to correct this situation in no-time flat, no waiting for any part to be delivered in the next 3-5 business days.....LOL

Still have not re-tried my slant six dizzy set-up, not sure why it failed too, old module, bad grnd or short, have not investigated it yet.

[55 Fargo]

Sidenote, had truck out this morning on highway, speeds at 60-65, these trucks like 60 mph, IMHO.

This has nothing to do with a revving engine, it has all to do with design, suspension handling etc, these truck were not built for 70-80 mph cruising, in stock suspension form, if yours is great or anyone on this forum.

I find the speed on the truck itself is more of a stumbling block, than my engine running too fast....just an observation

[Jeff Balazs]

Yes well I agree, with your post, I was able to correct this situation in no-time flat, no waiting for any part to be delivered in the next 3-5 business days.....LOL

Still have not re-tried my slant six dizzy set-up, not sure why it failed too, old module, bad grnd or short, have not investigated it yet.

Yes but what I am suggesting is simpler and in IMO actually less prone to any sort of failure. I do have a spare on board but whether I will ever need it is questionable. So far it has been excellent.

I did follow your other thread but refrained from comment. I will just say that I think there are too many potential failure spots in that system. I like the simplicity of the trigger. It either works or it doesn't. Less potential faults to chase.

 

I do agree with you regarding the speed thing. The suspension and frame are not all that well suited to cruising at higher speeds. It is what it is.

 

Jeff

[pflaming]

A 3/4 wheel base might handle 75/ 80 better with good radial tires.

[55 Fargo]

Yes but what I am suggesting is simpler and in IMO actually less prone to any sort of failure. I do have a spare on board but whether I will ever need it is questionable. So far it has been excellent.

I did follow your other thread but refrained from comment. I will just say that I think there are too many potential failure spots in that system. I like the simplicity of the trigger. It either works or it doesn't. Less potential faults to chase.

 

I do agree with you regarding the speed thing. The suspension and frame are not all that well suited to cruising at higher speeds. It is what it is.

 

Jeff

 

The slant dizzy, should be very good, its proven itself for years, the module boxes could fail though, the modification went well, so have not discovered the issues, could have been a bad wire for all I know.

The fact you have a spare, most likely you will never have an issue.

You an I both agree, these trucks were built for work, not speed, in the stock form.

A 3/4 wheel base might handle 75/ 80 better with good radial tires.

Good radial tires make a difference, 80 mph, in these old crates is getting up there, and if you feel comfortable cruising yours on the Interstate at 80 mph, my hats are off to you. The SWB will make for a choppier ride, but the engineering of the suspension and steering is not designed for super high speeds.....

[pflaming]

I fully agree on the top speed question. I travel comfortable with the semis and can pass at will, yet the semis speed is all I need. I enjoy the sounds, rhythms, aromas and motions of an old vehicle for then I am driving not just steering and braking a smooth, quiet, cloistered ride. And I do miss driving on muddy roads, getting as much momentum as I can on a down hill in order to make the next hill or break through the next drift. Even more fun was driving a 38 IH two ton or a 47 Ford two ton loaded with wheat which required constant shifting and split shifting. Sorry about my rant, I just enjoy the full experience of these old vehicles.

[Plymouthy Adams]

pflaming, on 08 Nov 2015 - 3:43 PM, said:

blah blah blah...... I just enjoy the full experience of these old vehicles.

they why do you have all the modern stuff on your truck...??   kinda seems a bit out of whack to claim the " total" and yet original parts are now trashed...no foot stomp starter, now disc brakes, upgraded ratio, 12 volt w/alternator, tach, modern radials and the list can go on..

[Don Coatney]

 split shifting.

Using your best English please describe in your own words "split shifting"?

[Jeff Balazs]

Using your best English please describe in your own words "split shifting"?

I'd like to know what this "cloistered ride" is all about?.......then again maybe I wouldn't. Methinks he doth use some silly words.

 

Fred I know you have time into these other distributor builds but if you stop and think about what I am suggesting I think you will come to the same conclusion as I did. There is just less to go wrong and you can't hardly tell it from bone stock until you go to use it.

 

Jeff

[55 Fargo]

I'd like to know what this "cloistered ride" is all about?.......then again maybe I wouldn't. Methinks he doth use some silly words.

 

Fred I know you have time into these other distributor builds but if you stop and think about what I am suggesting I think you will come to the same conclusion as I did. There is just less to go wrong and you can't hardly tell it from bone stock until you go to use it.

 

Jeff

Pertronix must be a half way decent upgrade or they would not have been in business all too long, most users appear happy with the product.

I think points are just fine, infact for most on this board, it would be a good choice, as most do drive their vehicles all that much, and seems a lot don't drive them at all. Good ole Normscoupe had a nice P15 Coupe, that he mostly drove from garage to the end of his driveway. Norm was a great Guy, and too bad he's gone....

[pflaming]

split shifting and cloistered ride. Don't know if I should respond since there are many synonyms. Split shifting:= on a two speed tryanny shifting from 4th and low to 3rd and high, or of course 3rd and low to 2nd and high, etc.  Cloistered ride= a ride so quiet you cannot hear much if anything, so smooth you cannot feel the road, with a blue tooth in ones ear talking to the Priest!  

 

So there you have it. Guess I should start a glossary!.LOL!  Fire = house cleaning;  Patina = nature at its finest; paint = political cover-up, very popular these days! 

[Don Coatney]

Split shifting:= on a two speed tryanny shifting from 4th and low to 3rd and high, or of course 3rd and low to 2nd and high, etc

 

Two speed tryanny? You flunked. Try again in your worst English.

[Plymouthy Adams]

still musing the word tyranny....not even close on the split shifting...and we have discussed this before...

[Jeff Balazs]

Pertronix must be a half way decent upgrade or they would not have been in business all too long, most users appear happy with the product.

I think points are just fine, infact for most on this board, it would be a good choice, as most do drive their vehicles all that much, and seems a lot don't drive them at all. Good ole Normscoupe had a nice P15 Coupe, that he mostly drove from garage to the end of his driveway. Norm was a great Guy, and too bad he's gone....

Well Fred this thread is all about using one of these trucks as a daily driver....... which means it must start and run daily. I am not saying it couldn't do that with a set of points in it but I do doubt it would do it all year on the same set of points. My bottom line has always been to use the truck in this manner. Everything I have done during the build was with this goal in mind. I have made quite a few mods which were made to either improve reliability or enhance the driving experience. They may not all stand the test of time but I feel pretty certain this ignition system will.

 

Jeff

[TodFitch]

. . . but I do doubt it would do it all year on the same set of points. . .

I get between 10,000 and 15,000 miles from a set of points on my '33. And I recall getting about the same from points on the last vehicle I drove prior to getting one with electronic ignition in the early 1980s. I don't know what average miles per year for a car is nowadays but, if I recall correctly, in the 1970s and 80s it used to be about 12,000.

 

So, at least with quality parts (which might not be as available today), going a year on a set of points for a daily driver should not be an issue.