Runs great for a while then cuts out bad!

[46Ply]

The 47 P15 218 runs great for a while, but then it cuts out to the point where you think it's going to die.  It did this once before, and the points appeared to be like new, but they were way out of adjustment.  After adjusting and timing the engine, it ran good for a short time, but now it's erratic and not dependable.  So now, what do we check and where to start?  electrical?    fuel?

 

The car has a new gas tank, new fuel pump, fuel filter.  And so far, we've put maybe 200 miles on it, in short runs, but can't depend on it.

 

 

[Conroe Powdercoating]

coil getting hot?, I just went through this with my 51 /218 and I ended up putting a pertronix module and their coil and havent been happier with the way it starts and runs now. flawless. I still dont know what the issue was with mine, but a crapload of new parts and lots of time still didnt make it reliable until the ignition module and blammo, I'm enjoying/trusting the car again.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Conroe Powdercoating

[46Ply]

An old timer today told me it is most likely condenser.  And also, as others here have noted, look for loose or bare wires on points.

I've found part numbers for points, condenser, etc. and the Napa and Std part numbers.  But I have yet to find a parts house who sells these.

 

I would consider electronic ignition, but first I want to know what's wrong.  Don't want to change a lot of things at the same time and still wonder what it was when we get it running properly.

 

Any good old parts houses left that have the catalogs that go back to 1947, and can find me the parts I need?

 

It's an IGS 4207-1 distributor.  Part no. 1120566 in case anyone can refer me.

Edited July 28, 2015 by 46Ply

[Mark D]

Roberts motor parts has everything you need. 978.363.5407

[Conroe Powdercoating]

An old timer today told me it is most likely condenser.  And also, as others here have noted, look for loose or bare wires on points.

I've found part numbers for points, condenser, etc. and the Napa and Std part numbers.  But I have yet to find a parts house who sells these.

 

I would consider electronic ignition, but first I want to know what's wrong.  Don't want to change a lot of things at the same time and still wonder what it was when we get it running properly.

 

Any good old parts houses left that have the catalogs that go back to 1947, and can find me the parts I need?

 

It's an IGS 4207-1 distributor.  Part no. 1120566 in case anyone can refer me.

rockauto has parts for 'em

[46Ply]

Thanks guys.  Appreciate the help.

[46Ply]

Hallelujah!  Installed a new condenser and the car is now finally running the way it should!  Not sure I believe it yet.  The problem had to be the condenser, considering the improvement it made, and nothing else was done to it.

 

There does remain one other problem which has always been there.  Starting at about 50mph and up it feels as if the brakes are being applied, or as my brother explained it....  When we were kids and pulling another car with a log chain, you can feel it when the driver in the car being pulled put on his brakes, (to maintain tension on the chain).  Engine still running smooth but appears to be some sort of drag.

[46Ply]

Update on 47.  Car runs great....  most of the time!!  But, occasionally, it gets to running rough at highway speed.  For this car is about 55 or 60.   So... back off accelerator to around 40,   runs okay.  Eventually settles down then you can get it back up to speed.

 

What to check for?   Coil?

 

Last thing we did was change the condenser, and that eliminated most of the problem.

 

I'll put a new coil on it, if I can find the proper part number!!

Edited August 7, 2015 by 46Ply

[DonaldSmith]

Mechanical fuel pump not keeping up? 

[Mlindblom]

Plugged up fuel filter? Carburetor rebuild? other tune up parts?

[greg g]

did you clear your fuel line from the pump inlet back to the tank?  Did you do the fuel flow quantity test? are you sure your needle and seat are clean and working properly?  Remember 90% of electrical problems are addressed by repairing the carburetor  and fuel system, and that 90% of carburetor problems are addressed electrically.

 

Sounds like low fuel rate for sustained cruising.

[mlozier76]

Do you hear a light tapping sound from the motor when it is not producing power? The car runs good on flatter ground until power is needed (ie hard acceleration or long uphill travel). I had a similar thing happen to me this weekend when trying to power up the large hills around here.  My points were not quite adjusted right. When the vacuum advance tried to adjust the timing it pulled the points too far away and wouldn't make good contact.  I could hear the points tapping. You may want to check that out. 

[46Ply]

We put a new fuel pump, gas tank, fuel sender, and fuel filter on it already.  Haven't touched the carb yet.

[jeffsunzeri]

double check your points gap. If the gap was accurate, then try advancing the timing a few degrees (turn the distributor against the direction of rotation about 5 degrees).

[46Ply]

did you clear your fuel line from the pump inlet back to the tank?  Did you do the fuel flow quantity test? are you sure your needle and seat are clean and working properly?  Remember 90% of electrical problems are addressed by repairing the carburetor  and fuel system, and that 90% of carburetor problems are addressed electrically.

 

Sounds like low fuel rate for sustained cruising.

 

 

Do you hear a light tapping sound from the motor when it is not producing power? The car runs good on flatter ground until power is needed (ie hard acceleration or long uphill travel). I had a similar thing happen to me this weekend when trying to power up the large hills around here.  My points were not quite adjusted right. When the vacuum advance tried to adjust the timing it pulled the points too far away and wouldn't make good contact.  I could hear the points tapping. You may want to check that out. 

Thanks guys for these ideas.  I'll pass them on to my mechanic.  (As previously stated, this car is in Illinois and I'm in NC.)

[46Ply]

Still trying to get this car to run properly.  Problem is,  my brother does not have the time or the knowledge to correct it.

The engine still continues to run rough, with no power.  He took it to an old guy who tried to get the distributor out, but he's too old to get it out.

So, now we're looking for someone in the vicinity of west central Illinois who has the proper equipment and knowledge to work on this car.  I've studied the forum trying to learn all I can about this.  But, I'm in NC, the car is in Illinois.

Would love to get it to someone who can fix it.

The car runs great at times sporadically, but is not consistent or dependable.  I now have another P15 and want to sell this one, but can't do that if it won't run!

Any thoughts, recommendations, will be greatly appreciated.

(I don't want to trailer it out to Moose!)

 

Update:  Might have found a guy to work on it.  I'll keep you posted.

Edited August 20, 2015 by 46Ply

[soth122003]

Hey all. I've got a similar problem on my P-15 now.

 

It was running great. Drove it to work and back no problems. Then one day it ran ruff and died. I finally traced the problem to a clogged fuel filter. Changed that, cleaned the carb and had it running again. Then after the car would warm up to about 170 degrees, it would shut off. I could restart right after but it would die within a few minutes. I changed the coil thinking that might be the problem but no go. The engine is a 1950, 230 dodge D-34 with a pertonix mod installed in the distributor. I don't think it is fuel as it runs fine when cold, but once it warms up it dies.  Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

Joe

[Jeff Balazs]

Joe;

Did you fit a matched coil from Pertronix as well as the module?

Also what sort of shape is your wiring in? Old ignition switch? Is it losing spark....or is it just dying? If you still have spark when this happens then it could be something like a fuel pump. Just some ideas.

 

Jeff

[soth122003]

Hey Jeff,

 

Didn't match the coil, but the car ran great for over a year like that. wiring under the hood has been replaced, but under the dash is original and in poor shape. No bare wires just old and starting to crumble. I will look at it later today though. Fuel pump is real good. When I disconnected the fuel line, I got a spray of fuel out from the pressure left on the line from the pump.

 

It just dies. I took the carb top off right after it died and the float bowl was still full. Checked the carb jets and passages, no obstructions (used compressed air to make sure). I am leaning toward an electrical problem at this point. The ignition switch is original and has a little play, but I haven't noticed any loss of power by jiggling the key.

 

Joe

Edited September 12, 2015 by soth122003

[Jeff Balazs]

Joe;

If you can confirm you are losing the spark then that would help narrow things down.

I would get the matching coil and carefully check the wiring if it was mine. There have been folks that have had problems with these systems because of mismatched parts and incorrect wiring. Pertronix is very specific on wire size to module and coil. Can't remember the size at the moment but it is small and needs to be.

 

Jeff

[soth122003]

Thanks Jeff,

 

I just put it on my wish list at Amazon for about $33. As far as losing spark, it seems weird. The car just shuts off after about 10-15 minutes with the eng temp at 170. It starts right back up and runs for another 10-15 minutes and just dies. Fuel is fine, coil is very warm, and I can touch it for about 5 seconds and all the other components, i.e. the distributor, voltage reg, starter relay, and even the key switch and relatively cool to the touch, maybe 100 degrees. the coil is probably about 150-170. This is just sitting in the driveway at idle, so I only have the rad fan blowing over it and it gets pretty warm under the hood.

 

I also checked the dizzy cap for cracks or burn marks it looks new. Rotor looks fine as well. Puzzling to say the least, because the car runs great. Idle is set at about 500 rpm, and the timing is set to 0 degrees. vacuum advance is working fine and the voltge reg is charging the batt at about 7 volts.

 

Joe

[soth122003]

Hey Jeff,

 

I think you're right about the coil. Just let it run for about 15 minutes, it died and I checked the coil temp against the oil filter temp and it was significant. Coil is hot to the touch and I can only touch it for a few seconds. The oil filter, which is a good indication of eng temp is warm and I can hold my hand to it for a while. I wish my infrared thermometer was here but it's at work about 45 minutes away.

 

I ordered the Flamethrower 1.5 ohm coil from Amazon, should be here in about a week. Thanks for the help and I'll let you know how it goes.

 

Joe

[DJ194950]

Sounds like a automatic reset circuit breaker is cutting out, but does the 48 have one hooked up in the igition. circuit?

 

Try taking a jumper wire direct from the battery to the coil to see if it will continue running after motor shutting down.

 

A thought to check?

 

DJ

[Young Ed]

Quick check when it dies put a baggie of ice on the coil to cool it back down and see if it restarts.

[Jeff Balazs]

Joe;

You should call Pertronix and double check with them that you have ordered the correct coil.

It probably is but it depends on the specific module you have in your distributor. Be sure to check your wiring sizes against the instruction list. The new coil is a 40k volt item so starts should be very quick.

 

Also I would suggest you adress the crispy wires and old switch you have. They may still be working...... but this sort of stuff can cause a lot of problems for you if left in place. Beside the obvious one's the potential for added resistance or intermittant current flow due to worn or dirty contacts can cause electronics to fail prematurely. If you protect that module it should last a long long time.

 

Hope this helps.

Jeff