There's A reason Bodywork Is Expensive

[48Dodger]

No reducer doesn't sound good......paint should flow "thinner than honey, thicker than milk" off the stir stick.

 

Also, hard to tell from the pic the pressure is to low.....doesn't have an even drop flow out look. 

 

The tip could be smaller...1.3....but I don't really think that's the problem. 

 

My guess would be the reducer...or lack of using it.

 

I would check the window for respraying over the first coat. Even if you sand it down, reintroducing solvents can cause problems.

 

48D

[55 Fargo]

No reducer doesn't sound good......paint should flow "thinner than honey, thicker than milk" off the stir stick.

 

Also, hard to tell from the pic the pressure is to low.....doesn't have an even drop flow out look. 

 

The tip could be smaller...1.3....but I don't really think that's the problem. 

 

My guess would be the reducer...or lack of using it.

 

I would check the window for respraying over the first coat. Even if you sand it down, reintroducing solvents can cause problems.

 

48D

I have to agree, this paint may have been too thick, reducing it, and even turning up the air, may have better atomized and allowed this paint to flow out. From where I am sitting it looks like severe peel to me, but maybe it is my computer image....PS have started painting something where this has happened, added more reducer, and even added some mineral spirits to slow things right down, and save the paint job... With a smaller tip, for sure more reducer wwould have been required for better flow.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Fargos-Go-Far

[55 Fargo]

I'm shooting Single stage acrylic enamel Restoration Shop brand, 8-1 with only hardner, no reducer. I've got a 1.4 tip, and my gun reads 21 psi max on the side, and most guys recommend 18-25 at the gun from what I've been reading and seeing in videos. It's stupid that they list psi at the nozzle when barely anyone can test that.

I had fluid wide open and set my fan from there, it's making about a 8-10" oval pattern in a spot test on my cardboard, and I was using some nice smooth cardboard to start testing. I have a particle and water remover right at the tank and a bulb filter right at the gun....but I went out and just hooked on my blow gun and I got a PILE of water passing the filter for a short time, and then it quit...so that might have built up in the hose while it sat. It was a hose I use all the time, but this same thing occurred last time and it was a new hose on my car. I do have a lot of oil build up in my filter at the compressor, not sure why it's getting into my air, other then I have a cylinder pushing it in from the compressor motor.

I could understand some over spray issues on sports where I'm fully extended, but the doors where I can two hand the gun and keep it exact are just as bad as the other spots. I did apply my first coat somewhat light, which I was told to do and come back with 2-3 wet coats after that. My concern is that no matter what it sprays this rough finish, even on the paper it just seems rough right off the hop...only time it isn't rough is if you just flood the spot, but then it's running like mad.

I'm at a loss....this little incident will cost me another $200 for more paint, and another 10 hours of sanding. Thank god I only painted the cab today...but I was worried I would have the same issues as last time....and did

To be honest with thicker enamel, you may have done better with a conventional spray 1.5 to 1.7 tip, whether a suction or gravity, that paint likes a lot of air to break it up.

The spraygun you have would have 10psi at the cap for compliance, heck your not a body shop, get a Binks Model 7 and hose her down. Seriously you will have less waste with an HVLP and less overspray, but gettting a new gun dialed in on paint day might not be that easy....

[NiftyFifty]

The paint calls for no reducer, it says you can reduce, but honestly it mixed up perfect...very nice consistency, poured well, but not like water...and the flash time was already about 10-12 minutes...so reducer would have really shrunk that. I could try a wider tip...I have a 1.7, but paint calls for 1.3-1.5 . Re spray says 24 hours,...so I may try a light sanding again and a respray tomorrow....can't hurt at this point, already ordered another gallon.

As for my filter..not sure the size...it was purchased at Harbour freight a couple years ago, I only ever use it to paint, the rest of the time it sits. I only used it one other time, and that was my car.

Edited May 3, 2015 by 4mula-dlx

[48Dodger]

For compliance reasons, almost all sprayable products say "no reducers needed....but you can" (read that as air pollutants).

Its a hand washing legal deal....dumb really.

 

Just cuz it sprays, doesn't mean it will flow the way you need it to.

Flash times aren't that different with reducers....infact, in some cases, it can speed up flash times. 

 

Hope this is adding to your thread Fargos-Go-Far......doesn't feel OT yet. lol

 

48D

Edited May 3, 2015 by 48dodger

[Dave72dt]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ETO-SUOmL.jpg

This is the one I'm currently using and I should be adding on another in tandem. As you can see, there is a lot of area for filtration compared to what you may find at Harbor Freight. A little pricey for a one time paint job but as you know, stores aren't exactly giving the paint a way either.

[NiftyFifty]

I'm starting to think my filter is a 40-60 micron, and most online reference are recommending a 5-10, so even with the filter at the gun it might be letting some stuff by, and creating an issue with all that oil I have in my tank. I have some reducer, but don't think it was the issue, as I wouldn't want it any thinner really. I guess I'll sand out the back tomorrow and spray with a larger tip and just see if that's an issue. I did use a 1.4 last time as well when this happened

[55 Fargo]

Okay, so got home tonight after 12.75 hour shift.

I immediately sanded my fender with 320, slicked it up nicely, wiped it down and tacked it up.

I mixed Tractor type enamel, with hardener, mixing 8 ounces of thick paint, 1 ounce of wetloook hardener, let sit for 20 minutes. 

Next I added 3 ounces of xylene, stirred this up, it was too thick on how it felt on my stir stick, then added 2 more ounces, remember this paint was thick.

I filled the cup on my conventional spraygun with a 1.5 tip, set my air pressure at 45, set up my flow and pattern, nice big spray pattern.

next i sprayed a light mist coat on the entire fender, waited for a short flash time, then shot on a nice full medium coat, went on like glass.

The shop was cool at 63f, so got a little run, and some dust specs, my garage was not overly clean, I was in a hurry on this job.

My bodywork was crappy, but this fender was beat from one end to the other and very warped. I did shoot primer on the inside, followed by rubberized undercoating.

Here are some pics, and need to paint the other fender, which is a much better panel to begin with.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Fargos-Go-Far

[55 Fargo]

This is about as good as any 25 footer paint job out there. This back fender was beat up bad and will replace it when I can. At least the truck is mostly 1 color now...

[pflaming]

I just finished reading the previous posts and realized anew why I like patina. It gives a unique finish but does not screw things up for whoever may follow. Seriously, to my way of thinking what the Painter needs to know is just overwhelming and so I fully admire what is involved.

[Young Ed]

Fred not sure why you think that. Looks good to me. Presentable but not so perfect you'd be afraid to haul a sheet of plywood or a bag of dirt

[NiftyFifty]

Looks good Fargo, I'm hoping for some new colour tomorrow after spending about 5-6 hours sanding today. Going to hit it all fast tomorrow with 400 grit and say to heck with it! Got a new 5 micron filter and my friend who was a painter is bringing his gun....fingers crossed

[55 Fargo]

Looks good Fargo, I'm hoping for some new colour tomorrow after spending about 5-6 hours sanding today. Going to hit it all fast tomorrow with 400 grit and say to heck with it! Got a new 5 micron filter and my friend who was a painter is bringing his gun....fingers crossed

Hope all goes well, and reduce this if you cannot get it to flow out nice and wet...PS your Buddy will know as soon as he stirs this paint if it will flow right for his liking...

[Merle Coggins]

Looks good from my house, Fred. You've got a cool old truck that isn't afraid to do a little work from time to time.

 

Merle

[55 Fargo]

Looks good from my house, Fred. You've got a cool old truck that isn't afraid to do a little work from time to time.

 

Merle

Believe Me Merle it does look better all the way from your house.....LOL it has the bumps and dents and bruises of a faithful old work/farm truck given another chance to haul again......

Edited May 4, 2015 by Fargos-Go-Far

[NiftyFifty]

Well today's paint went on better, and I guess the fault was my technique, but the painter I had out today could understand why, as the Restoration Shop paint only comes with one type hardner, and it dries way way too fast. I wasn't layering it on anywhere near thick enough, but he was amazed at how wet he could spray with no run...so much to the point that the dry spray became a huge issue. Just painting the roof and then the top at the door jams, didn't give you enough time to make it from one side to the other without dry spray. He said the paint was plenty thin enough so reducing it wouldn't help it. I guess that's why it's $150 a gallon and PPG is like $600, but I'm darn glad I messed up $150 paint and not $600

Only issue was that because it had to go on so thick to flatten out, that the gun was building globs and I got the off spec in the paint, but I can wet sand and polish those out I think. Sadly I also messed up some of the body work, I tried not to burn through the paint, but some spots I did hit bondo...and I knew it might cause issues.

I guess I'll see next weekend what the white goes on like.

Edited May 4, 2015 by 4mula-dlx

[55 Fargo]

Looks great, glad it turned out...

[NiftyFifty]

Round 2.....completely different results then the orange paint....same exact brand and acrylic enamel, just ivory instead of orange and this paint ran like crazy with a heavier 1st coat. I thought it was staying put, but on my first fender I realized it was making bad runs and pulls, so I tried to speed up a bit but there just wasn't a real happy medium between runs and dry spray.

I sanded out as many runs as I could without breaking through primer, and gave it two more coats today, looking better, but still some over spray issues in spots. My recommendation... Don't use Restoration Shop paint...spend a bit more on the next line up! I don't recommend Omni either, but my issue with it was poor coverage...4 -6 coats to really get good colour out of it.

[Plymouthy Adams]

not sure what you used for reducer..that in itself will make a world of difference with the Rustoleum...the stuff they recommend..pure garbage

[NiftyFifty]

No reducer in this paint, and it flows just fine.....the hardner is the issue with it....it just dries too darn fast. I just went out and checked everything, and the overspray was more of an issue then I thought again....and the stupid thing is, I was going on heavy again. I think the shop being about 5 degrees cooler last night was a huge advantage over today's spraying.....but I'm out of paint, patience and spending money...so it is what it is.

[55 Fargo]

Round 2.....completely different results then the orange paint....same exact brand and acrylic enamel, just ivory instead of orange and this paint ran like crazy with a heavier 1st coat. I thought it was staying put, but on my first fender I realized it was making bad runs and pulls, so I tried to speed up a bit but there just wasn't a real happy medium between runs and dry spray.

I sanded out as many runs as I could without breaking through primer, and gave it two more coats today, looking better, but still some over spray issues in spots. My recommendation... Don't use Restoration Shop paint...spend a bit more on the next line up! I don't recommend Omni either, but my issue with it was poor coverage...4 -6 coats to really get good colour out of it.

Hey again glad you were able to save the paint.

Now what is going on? Are you adjusting and spraying with the viscosity you have, thinner paint, finder tip and less needle flow, you have to test and adjust then spray accordingly. Why a heavy 1st coat, why not a lighter 1 st coat then spray for coverage on 2nd and possibly a 3rd. Again the paint should not be going on too heavy at first, and you need to pay attention to flash times.

I am not pro or expert, but have had to adjust for weather temps brand of paint etc....glad it will work out. I do not see a problem with the paint, but experience with changing paint conditions is a must...

[55 Fargo]

No reducer in this paint, and it flows just fine.....the hardner is the issue with it....it just dries too darn fast. I just went out and checked everything, and the overspray was more of an issue then I thought again....and the stupid thing is, I was going on heavy again. I think the shop being about 5 degrees cooler last night was a huge advantage over today's spraying.....but I'm out of paint, patience and spending money...so it is what it is.

Drying fast, maybe just a slight amount more of reducer, runs are not usually associated with fast drying or painting drying so fast as it exits the gun and does not flow out and land on the intended panels, causing dry spray.

if you were running warmer in the shop today, and had dry spray, you could have used a slower reducer just adding a bit to allow it to flow out before it dries. I dfo not think the hardener i kicking too fast, it sounds like it needed more solvent to flow.... a fine line many times, from too thick and dry to too thin and runs....

[55 Fargo]

not sure what you used for reducer..that in itself will make a world of difference with the Rustoleum...the stuff they recommend..pure garbage

What Rustoleum? He be using Global Restoration Shop Acrylic enamel, but get this Tim they sell it without reducer, just add hardener and shoot, they were selling it with reducer until last year, no doubt this is a problem. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

my bad, I read Restoration and my mind acknowledged Rustoleum...I have been a bit off my game for the past few weeks...too much going on..bad excuse but the best I can offer up for now...

[pflaming]

Wasn't going to call you on that, but since you brought it up . . . .