1939 Plymouth Business Coupe

[1952B3b23]

Hi Guys,

 

I picked up a '39 Plymouth coupe this past July. The guy i bought it from was going to build a street rod out of it but bought one instead, thankfully. The car was last registered in 2011 and the guy i bought it off of never drove the car at all. The guy he had bought it off of was the one that used it as a weekend cruiser. Shes a really solid car with the only rotted spots being in the running boards. The frame and sheet metal is nice and solid which made me real happy. The car had undergone an amateur restoration job somewhere in the early 90's. The drive train appears to be all original including the 75 year old wiring. So here's what i've done to the car since i've owned it:

 

1. Redid the entire brake system including getting the master cylinder re-sleeved in stainless steel. The old MC was completely shot and could not be honed and rebuilt therefore a re-sleeving was in order. 

 

2. Installed an aftermarket radiator from a '47-'49 Plymouth coupe. The original was leaking and after getting a quote to re-core it for $900 i quickly decided on the $200 aftermarket.

 

3. Sanded and painted the wheels gloss black.

 

4. Redid the wiring to the back half of the car. The harness to the rear tail lights and license plate light was all original. 

 

5. Got the car registered and drove her around for about a month, what a blast.

 

I've now stopped driving it because of excessive engine blow by. I'm getting lots of smoke coming out of the oil breather and crank case ventilation pipe. There's also liquid oil on the breather cap after then engine runs for awhile. Im still deciding what i'l be doing about that but basically its another winter time project. My main reason for buying this car was to have something to cruise around in while i finish the '52 Dodge truck i have. So ill need to get it back and running strong for this coming spring.

 

I've attached some pics of the car for your viewing pleasure.

 

Thanks for looking in,

 

-Chris 

[deathbound]

Looks nice & solid! What brand radiator & any mods to make it fit? Any other plans for it?

[1941Rick]

Another Champion Cooling fan....

[1952B3b23]

Thank you. The brand of radiator was "American Eagle" and I got it off eBay. I'm pretty sure it's for a 47-49 plymouth coupe but my memory could be slightly off. If you want more info I can dig it up.

The only mods I had to do was to cut about a half inch at an angle off the top corners of the radiator support. They hit the tank and wouldn't let the radiator recess back into the opening. I also had to cut the piece of sheetmetal that hung down over the original radiator. I just trimmed it back to match the contour of the tank. Then it was a matter of making some metal tabs to allow for bolting to the rad support. That was only on one side. The other side I was able to use the holes pre drilled in the radiator bracket, some had to be massaged a bit. The top neck on the aftermarket rad came down at a 90. I had to cut the 90 off so it'd clear the fan. If you need more details of the mods and pics to show them let me know. I'll be happy to explain further.

My other plan for the car is to fix the Rot on the running boards and get it painted black. I want to have the car running good and looking decent for the spring. Then once my truck project is done I can do more to this old girl.

-Chris

[1952B3b23]

Another Champion Cooling fan....

The champion and American eagle ones do look damn near the same. Who knows they probably are.

-Chris

[1952B3b23]

I had mentioned in my first post in this thread that the car needs some engine work. So with that in mind i've started to strip the front sheet metal off. The bottom flanges on both fenders where they bolt to the running boards are rotted out so i'll need to fix that when its off. The first things to go where the hood, hood side covers, and the bumper. Man those bumper bolts that go through the frame sure where rusted on there. Thankfully my dremel tool with a cut off wheel did a good job of zipping 2 of the 4 bolts off.

 

Thanks for looking,

 

-Chris 

[The Oil Soup]

I bought that same radiator from Champion for my B4B. Part # CC4749

[Ulu]

Nice old Plymouth Chris.

[1952B3b23]

Nice old Plymouth Chris.

Thanks Ulu. I think I've seen your build thread for your plymouth over on the HAMB. I can't seem to find it again, mind sending it to me? I'd like to follow along.

-Chris

[1952B3b23]

I got a question for you guys about removing the front sheetmetal:

Can I remove the front fenders and grill as one unit? If so does anyone have pictures of the process? Or brief explanation would be great.

Thanks in advance,

-Chris

Edited November 5, 2014 by 1952B3b23

[Andydodge]

The front sheetmetal can be removed as a unit, just a matter of unbolting the correct bolts, fender to cowl and the radiator support ones, also take the inner panels and wiring away from theareas that may catch but you'll need at least one, maybe 2 friends to help carry it........btw what are the headlights from?.......the original were square..........nice car........andyd

[1952B3b23]

Thanks Andydodge. My goal is to try and minimize the number of rusty and crusty old bolts I have to fight with the sheet metal on the car.

I have no idea, the headlights where like that when I bought it. I don't know if it's some sort of conversion kit. Any ideas?

-Chris

[Plymouthy Adams]

these cars were offered conversion kits long ago..plenty took the styling cue and made the change...the nose of the 39 is very clean and has always been a favorite of mine...do take care good care of the girl...

[DonaldSmith]

Sealed beams were required from 1940 on.  Their reflectors didn't corrode, since they were part of the lamp.  There must have been numerous conversion kits to update one's car.  Too bad, in a way, since some of the earlier cars  came with beautiful headlights.

 

I'm sure the boys can post some beautiful pre-1940 headlight photos.   

[Reg Evans]

Here's a beauty

[1952B3b23]

Very interesting, thanks for the info. I do like the look of the round better than square so I'm glad mine has the conversion. Plus it's relatively easy to find 6v sealed beam lights.

I did score a 39 front fender at a swap meet a few weeks ago that still has the opening for the square light, pretty neat.

Real nice vert you posted there Reg, thanks.

-Chris

[deathbound]

Sealed beams were required from 1940 on.  Their reflectors didn't corrode, since they were part of the lamp.  There must have been numerous conversion kits to update one's car.  Too bad, in a way, since some of the earlier cars  came with beautiful headlights.

 

I'm sure the boys can post some beautiful pre-1940 headlight photos.   

 

My 1938 Plymouth:

 

Very interesting, thanks for the info. I do like the look of the round better than square so I'm glad mine has the conversion. Plus it's relatively easy to find 6v sealed beam lights.

I did score a 39 front fender at a swap meet a few weeks ago that still has the opening for the square light, pretty neat.

Real nice vert you posted there Reg, thanks.

-Chris

 

Same here....I prefer the '39 Dodge headlight (sort of teardrop shaped).

Found this.....possibly what you have:

Wedford Arrow Headlight Conversion Bezel Round bulb GE 1939 Plymouth Dodge

 

Edited November 6, 2014 by deathbound

[Young Ed]

I did score a 39 front fender at a swap meet a few weeks ago that still has the opening for the square light, pretty neat.

-Chris

 

I believe if you took those lights apart you would still have a square headlight opening too the conversion just covers it up.

[1952B3b23]

My 1938 Plymouth:

 

 

Same here....I prefer the '39 Dodge headlight (sort of teardrop shaped).

Found this.....possibly what you have:

Wedford Arrow Headlight Conversion Bezel Round bulb GE 1939 Plymouth Dodge

 

 

Very nice car you have there! Also thats exactly the headlight conversion thats on my car. I remember seeing the word "Arrow" embossed in it. If i remember i'll take a close up shot of the headlight for better comparison. Thanks for posting that info.

 

I believe if you took those lights apart you would still have a square headlight opening too the conversion just covers it up.

 

Ohhhhh okay that makes sense. Thanks.

[blucarsdn]

Nice looking '39 coupe, interesting paint job..

A little added info on the "sealed beam headlights.. As a correction to an earlier comment,, Sealed Beam headlights were not required during or after 1940. All vehicles BUILT in the USA in 1940 and later had to have sealed beam headlights, the 1940 law does not apply to vehicles built prior to 1940.

Most of the retrofit sealed beam headlights found on the '39 Plyms are made by a company called Arrow.. This style usually has a small "jeweled" glass lens above the sealed beam..

A good source for any patch panels you might need is The Plymouth Doctor..

[Plymouthy Adams]

It is my understanding that 1940 was the introduction of the 7 inch round sealed beam and was not made standard till much later.  The need to retrofit was never implied and those that changed from square to round did so for styling cue or ease of maintenance...headlights approved prior to the required 7 inch would be grandfathered in as is usual with advancements...similar to the standardization of many items in the auto/cycle world..it was not till 1975 that bikes were universally standardized in controls as to what hand or foot would operate what control including shift...but the old bikes are still legal...even with the DOT standardization of headlight it was well in the late 80's and maybe even later that if you imported to the  US a Euro version it had to go through a number of changes for federalization and lighting was a main part of this as the Europeans used many shaped and sizes.  Only a couple smaller countries with major market being the US did they go with DOT standards..England used the 7 inch system but still made left and right hand version of their lenses depending on the market it was being sold...the lens was cut/desgined to project the beam to the edge of the road and not into the eye of the oncoming driver..Germany used 7 inch but albeit a lot of flat faced lenses...at one time illegal..(due to no adapters for proper checking/aiming headlight at inspection stations) still may be but with the many designs of lenses today who would truly know at first glance...and now we have HID and to that end a aftermarket influx of illegal lighting.only a housing designed for HID is legal for HID lighting...I surel y wish that they would enforce this law...big fine to owner..big fine to seller though seller states he is clear if marketed for off road..according to DOT...no such wording is a GOJFC...

 

hope this BRIGHTENED your day.....

[1952B3b23]

Nice looking '39 coupe, interesting paint job..

A little added info on the "sealed beam headlights.. As a correction to an earlier comment,, Sealed Beam headlights were not required during or after 1940. All vehicles BUILT in the USA in 1940 and later had to have sealed beam headlights, the 1940 law does not apply to vehicles built prior to 1940.

Most of the retrofit sealed beam headlights found on the '39 Plyms are made by a company called Arrow.. This style usually has a small "jeweled" glass lens above the sealed beam..

A good source for any patch panels you might need is The Plymouth Doctor..

Thanks for the comment. Yea the paint job is interesting to say the least. I hate the two tone gray and black. Looks uglier then heck but it was like that when I bought it. I plan on getting it painted all black sometime in the near future.

The head light conversion on my car is indeed "arrow" brand. I double checked that tonight.

-Chris

[1952B3b23]

Plymouthy, thanks for the comment. Interesting bit of info you shared.

-Chris

[1952B3b23]

Well I've been working on the car lately trying to take the front sheet metal off for some engine work. All the bolts holding it on are extremely rusty. I've had to cut all the bolts holding the running boards to the fenders off and a few that bolt the fender to the cowl. The flange on the rear of the fenders that bolt to the running boards are completely rotted out. On the passengers side, the portion of the cowl directly behind the fender is rusted out. I took some pics to show what im talking about. 

 

Pics 1-4: Showing all of the rusty and crusty areas inside of the fender. Once i get them off the car ill have to rebuild them, as well as repair the rotted running boards (or make new ones).

 

Pic 5: This is a shot of the inside of the fender. The previous owner must have driven the car through fresh asphalt, as this is an example of the heavy coating on the inside of each fender. This stuff is a pain to try and chip off and was really piled up on the fender flanges seen in pics 1-4. I'm sure this helped rot this area as badly as it did.  

 

Pic 6-7: This is a shot of the Arrow headlight conversion. You can kind of make out the "Arrow" script under the parking light jewel.

 

Pic 8: Someone was practicing there archery and shot the passengers side of the car right below the windshield. I found the arrow head behind the kick panel on the inside of the car. 

 

Now that i have the rustiest of the bolts removed it should go a bit faster in removing the front end sheet metal.

 

Thanks for looking,

 

-Chris 

[Plymouthy Adams]

maybe the arrow shaft was an indicator that the conversion did not go how we say easy or normal..was looking for the rust aforementioned in the photo..