TodFitch Posted June 30, 2014 Report Posted June 30, 2014 Check the rear axle vent bolt to b sure it is not plugged up. If the vent bolt is plugged it can cause an axle seal to leak. Edit: That is if the '41 has one. Same part number for the "Housing Vent Assembly" from 1940 through 1948. The '36 through '39 used a different number. Quote
mattimuss Posted July 9, 2014 Author Report Posted July 9, 2014 Hey All, "Life" took over and has kept me away from both the '41 and here. Had visits from both in-laws and out-laws the last two weeks. In-laws from S, Carolina and Hawaii. My brother [the out-law] is an OTR driver and he 'popped' in for the weekend. So I have been playing host, cook, chauffeur and entertainer. Gotta love it... I was able to put a few hours in this evening which lead to the complete tear down of the brakes. The wheel cylinders are toast [see pictures]. The pistons are either rusted solid or have turned to sludge. The sludge is something totally new to me...very interesting! I was able to pull all the soft...well, not so soft lines. They are hard and cracked. I also got the rear distribution block and differential vent off. While totally coated with grime, I was able to blow through the vent. That doesn't mean anything as I might have unclogged it when I removed it. Going to clean/service both and blow some air through them. Next I will pull the master cylinder and the brake lines to it and either clean/service the lines or make new ones. I am guessing replacements are in order based on the wheel cylinders and how rusty the brake lines across the differential are. Lastly, what is the elongated thing above the speedometer on the dash [see dash picture]? I'll keep posting as I work through this.... Quote
Lumpy Posted July 9, 2014 Report Posted July 9, 2014 High beam indicator. That had me stumped for years. ken. Quote
Dave72dt Posted July 9, 2014 Report Posted July 9, 2014 Make new lines. Brake lines will rust from the inside as well as the outside. Quote
deathbound Posted July 9, 2014 Report Posted July 9, 2014 When I did my brake job, I had my rear wheel cylinders (stepped bore) re-sleeved in S.S. here:http://www.brakeplace.com/. Very happy with the work & 10 days from the day I shipped them to the day I received them. Maybe a little more than re-popped foreign junk, but I still have my original MADE IN U.S.A. wheel cylinders that will never pit. Here's a link to my brake work, along with some other stuff:http://p15-d24.com/topic/26625-new-front-disc-brakes-front-end-rebuild-steering-rebuild-for-the-38-plymouth/ Quote
Young Ed Posted July 9, 2014 Report Posted July 9, 2014 When I did my brake job, I had my rear wheel cylinders (stepped bore) re-sleeved in S.S. here:http://www.brakeplace.com/. Very happy with the work & 10 days from the day I shipped them to the day I received them. Maybe a little more than re-popped foreign junk, but I still have my original MADE IN U.S.A. wheel cylinders that will never pit. Here's a link to my brake work, along with some other stuff:http://p15-d24.com/topic/26625-new-front-disc-brakes-front-end-rebuild-steering-rebuild-for-the-38-plymouth/ Great place locally here in Minneapolis. I've been through their shop. I get most of my brake parts from them. Quote
mattimuss Posted July 10, 2014 Author Report Posted July 10, 2014 Hey All, Yea Dave, I had pretty much already made up my mind to fab new brake lines. Might as well get 'em done now while I have the brakes all apart. I taught myself brake and fuel line fab on my '69 A108. I find it to be kinda fun doing those [see picture]. Thanks 'Death', you jogged a dormant part of my brain. We have a similar business out here called Bush Brakes. I called the owner and chatted with him about the master cylinder and tha wheel cylinders. He can re-sleeve the wheel cylinders for $70-$75 each and will take a look at the master cylinder before quoting. I would rather go this route than Chinese junk. Steve, the owner, did a great job rebuilding the Budd calipers on my '68 New Yorker. Thanks Lumpy, I would never have guessed that. And since I have yet to drive the car it would have been a long time till I figured that out! Quote
mopardude Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 IGS-4111-1 is an original distributor for a 1941 Plymouth according to my Autolite manual. I had a book somewhere that showed spark plug cross references, I'll see if I can find that. I do know that Champion J11C plugs will work. Not sure on other brands. Quote
Don Coatney Posted July 10, 2014 Report Posted July 10, 2014 IGS-4111-1 is an original distributor for a 1941 Plymouth according to my Autolite manual. I had a book somewhere that showed spark plug cross references, I'll see if I can find that. I do know that Champion J11C plugs will work. Not sure on other brands. I and many others have had problems with Champion plugs over the years. They would be my last choice in spark plug replacement. Quote
mattimuss Posted July 11, 2014 Author Report Posted July 11, 2014 What the???!!! Whoever engineered the master cylinder configuration in a '41 Plymouth should have his testicles removed via his toes! I have to tell you guys that I have replaced several master cylinders throughout my life...and this one is hands down the worst I have ever worked on! My God, what a mess... Ok, I've vented enough...maybe. The master cylinder was in practically the same condition as the wheel cylinders, so I'm very happy that I pulled it...maybe...I'll let you know in the morning. I will be taking the master and wheel cylinders in tomorrow to see if they can be sleeved/rebuilt. I'll keep y'all posted. So now to all you "Master Plymouth Mechanics", any tips/tricks on putting the master cylinder back in, without hurting myself or kicking the dog, because all I see is a nightmare awaiting my sorry a$$! On a good note, after sitting for almost two weeks I hooked up the battery, pumped the gas pedal once, pulled the choke out and pressed the starter button. She fired right up. I took the time to let her warm up and adjusted the idle down. This somewhat counters the master cylinder debacle...maybe. Quote
deathbound Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 Hey All, Yea Dave, I had pretty much already made up my mind to fab new brake lines. Might as well get 'em done now while I have the brakes all apart. I taught myself brake and fuel line fab on my '69 A108. I find it to be kinda fun doing those [see picture]. Thanks 'Death', you jogged a dormant part of my brain. We have a similar business out here called Bush Brakes. I called the owner and chatted with him about the master cylinder and tha wheel cylinders. He can re-sleeve the wheel cylinders for $70-$75 each and will take a look at the master cylinder before quoting. I would rather go this route than Chinese junk. Steve, the owner, did a great job rebuilding the Budd calipers on my '68 New Yorker. Thanks Lumpy, I would never have guessed that. And since I have yet to drive the car it would have been a long time till I figured that out! Whadaya mean "out here"??? I'm just north of you! I think I paid around the same as you got quoted & seemed most of the brake places were a little higher around here, so I chose the linked shop, from a referral. My rears have a stepped bore. I usually like to deal local, though. I did have a local shop (http://www.chtopping.com/) re sleeve my stock MC with a smaller S.S. sleeve with a 1" bore & they used modern over the counter internal parts. Quote
knuckleharley Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 >>Next I will pull the master cylinder and the brake lines to it and either clean/service the lines or make new ones. << Make new ones. There is no way to tell how rusty your old brake lines are inside by looking,and new brake lines are cheap insurance. You can buy it by the roll from auto parts stores,and you can even bend the new stuff with your hands and not kink it. Brakes are not a place to be cutting corners. 1 Quote
frankieflathead Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) What the???!!! Whoever engineered the master cylinder configuration in a '41 Plymouth should have his testicles removed via his toes! I have to tell you guys that I have replaced several master cylinders throughout my life...and this one is hands down the worst I have ever worked on! My God, what a mess... Hey, Matt. Nice car and you're making great progress on it. If I understand your comment correctly, you were having predictable problems reaching some of the bolts that attach your master cylinder. I'm not 100% sure about your '41, but on my 1949 D24 Dodge there's a large removable panel in the front floor that goes almost the full width of the car. It unbolts (if the fasteners aren't rusted solid) and allows access to the master cylinder from inside the car. Makes the job a whole lot easier. I think your car is probably put together the same way. If you lift your floor mat at the door sill, you should see a row of bolt heads a little way in toward the transmission tunnel. That you managed to get the M/C out from underneath the car is a tribute to your wrenching skills and persistence. Edited July 11, 2014 by frankieflathead Quote
Jim Yergin Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 The '41 m/c is actually towards the front of the car under the steering column, not under the floor. I wonder if the difficulty in getting to it caused the relocation back under the floor in the later models. Jim Yergin Quote
frankieflathead Posted July 11, 2014 Report Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) The '41 m/c is actually towards the front of the car under the steering column, not under the floor. I wonder if the difficulty in getting to it caused the relocation back under the floor in the later models. Jim Yergin Thanx, Jim. I imagine it must be a bear to get at. Edited July 11, 2014 by frankieflathead Quote
mattimuss Posted July 15, 2014 Author Report Posted July 15, 2014 Mornin' All, I took the master & wheel cylinders down to Bush Brakes. The master cylinder was repairable, all four wheel cylinders are junk. Has anyone purchased replacement wheel cylinders from Andy Bernbaum? I spent a couple hours working on the car last night, mostly cleaning brake parts. I took the time to clean the baking plate and axle on the passenger side, the side that is leaking gear lube. After thoroughly cleaning and drying I let it set for a few minutes. When I came back there was new gear lube seeping and pooling at the bottom of the bearing area, so it looks like I'm pulling an axel. I did a search for "rearend seals" within the forum and read the results. If I read these correctly all I have to do is pull the backing plate and the axel, with bearings pressed on, and the seals should come out. I do not need all the special tools recommended in the service manual? Is it really that easy? Are there any recommendations on reassembly? Where is the best place to get replacement seals? If I replace one side I might as well do the other too... Quote
mattimuss Posted July 15, 2014 Author Report Posted July 15, 2014 No joy on Rock Auto, unless another year/make/model works on the '41. I am very open to that!!! They do have rebuild kits but Steve at Bush says the wheel cylinders are beyound rebuild kit help... Quote
TodFitch Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 No joy on Rock Auto, unless another year/make/model works on the '41. I am very open to that!!! They do have rebuild kits but Steve at Bush says the wheel cylinders are beyound rebuild kit help... You can get the cylinders sleeved with either stainless or brass. A number of places will perform that service, I'd recommend the place that did mine but the fellow retired a couple of years ago. Quote
steveplym Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) I have wheel cylinders on my Plymouth from Bernbaum. No issues to date and that's been about 10 years ago. Edited July 16, 2014 by steveplym Quote
mattimuss Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Posted July 20, 2014 Hey All, Quick question: Should I be seeing diff oil coming out of the axle bearings? Quote
greg g Posted July 20, 2014 Report Posted July 20, 2014 No. If you are seeing this after driving, it is possible your diff vent is blocked. look for it atop the brake line block on the drivers side axle. A brass fitting with a small button thing on top. This needs to be free to allow pressure build up in the diff to be vented. If the pressure builds it pushes lube past the outer seals. If you are seeing it with just the car sitting, chances are you seals are shot of the diff is seriously over filled. Quote
mattimuss Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Posted July 20, 2014 Hey Greg, Car is sitting on jack stands, diff vent is out of housing and everything is off the diff housing up to the shims. The passenger side it actually dripping and there is diff oil in the bearings on the driver's side. I figure I have to replace the inside seals but wanted to make sure before tearing into it further. Quote
Don Coatney Posted July 20, 2014 Report Posted July 20, 2014 Over greasing of the outer bearings can also blow out the seals. Service manual addresses this issue. Quote
mattimuss Posted September 4, 2015 Author Report Posted September 4, 2015 Well, the day finally arrived this past Wednesday...I drove her for the first time under her own power! It took more than a year to get to this point. It was a long, arduous journey that could not have happened without the help from the members on this forum. So a huge thank you goes out to all of you who have had the patients to answer all my 'dumb' questions. Things I learned during her not-so-maiden voyage: 1. The brakes are very 'soft'. Pumping them does not make the pedal firmer so I feel that it is in the adjustment. After reading more on brake adjustment I decided to bite the bullet and purchase an Aamco 1750, it should arrive next week. 2. No brake lights. This should make some of you laugh...I have been chasing brake lights for two days. When someone presses the pedal neither of the brake lights on the rear fenders come on. I checked the bulbs, all good. I pulled the leads out of the stop light switch, checked and cleaned them, still no brake lights. So I dove into the repair manual to see if there is a testing procedure for the stop light switch and discovered, and I hope I am right about this, that the lights on the rear fenders are running lights and not the brake/signal light, which is located in the trunk handle. I still have no brake light [the bulb checks fine] and do not know how to test the stop light switch, but at least I have located the brake/signal light! 3. Transmission will not go into 3rd gear. My gut tells me that the car has sat too long and the transmission needs to be serviced. Here I have a question: I could not find, in the service manual, any info on how to flush the transmission. To be precise, what to use to flush the transmission. I seem to remember someone telling me years ago to pour a quart of kerosene into the transmission, drive it around until it warms up, drain it and fill it with new gear oil. Thoughts? I have attached a picture of her not-so-maiden voyage...more to come! 1 Quote
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