Buying my first classic, 1954 Plymouth Belvedere. Advice?

[Dave72dt]

Don't do it.

Your Dad is right.

All the conditions you state point to not doing yourself or the car any favors.

Daily driver, out of cash, bad electrics, bad brakes, overheating, not a proficient mechanic.

there's another factor in this also that isn't mentioned in this thread and is on the aaca thread.  The woman that seems to be pulling the strings and controlling the finances.  if she doesn't like being seen in a dependable, paid for,  90's cars, and talked you into a 2year old car that seems to be financially more than your work can accommodate, she'll get tired of being seen in an old classic that needs constant work.  Get rid of the girl.  I think she's the kind we called high maintenance.  JMO

[Spy]

Get rid of the girl.  I think she's the kind we called high maintenance.  JMO

 

She's a great girl, was just raised to be a bit spoiled due to absent parents with plenty of money, and I'm too concerned with giving her everything she wants. It's not entirely her fault when it comes to the classic though. I'm personally in love with this 54 Plymouth, and we share an interest in "antique" things (music, cars, appliances, lifestyle). She is blind to the financial aspects of life though. I really want this car but I would have no financial buffer.

If I were back home in Texas, I'd have a place to park/work on the car, friends who are classic car mechanics, and a lower cost of living but.. that's not the place I'm in right now. I've all but decided to get a 90's Honda at this point.

[Plymouthy Adams]

for sure it is hard to run with the big boys when you are not even in the drivers seat..

[54Illinois]

Check out Texas CL listings...till you get back

[jeffsunzeri]

Like shooting craps, old cars are a special pleasure, but not when you need the rent money.

 

Don't be disappointed. When it's meant to be, the right car and opportunity will find you.

[Dave72dt]

Maybe you can talk her into buying it for you, or for herself, even. Best of both worlds, you get to keep the girl and get the car to play with and your cash stays in your pocket.

[Spy]

Maybe you can talk her into buying it for you, or for herself, even. Best of both worlds, you get to keep the girl and get the car to play with and your cash stays in your pocket.

Haha, that would be perfect. Unfortunately she's broke. She swears she'll buy it from me later if I get it now. But that doesn't do me much good at the moment. x.x

[knuckleharley]

The big expense on old cars is usually repairing rust, upholstery and chrome. 

My advise is to get it moving under it's own power to the point you know what you have,and then focus your time and money on brakes,suspension,new fuel line and rubber hoses,new brake lines and hoses,and new tires.

 

If you can afford it,go for a dual outlet master cylinder instead of just rebuilding your old single port master cylinder.

 

Make it safe to drive and enjoy driving it around while you are saving money and figuring out what you want to do with it as far as cosmetics go.

[Spy]

Well it does seem to be running well under it's own power right now. Concerns are just the electrical wiring, overheating, and the brakes (It does stop, just not quickly, need to pump the brake pedal). Honestly I'm not even too worried about the electrical as an immediate catastrophe, I can live without dash lights and a radio for a while.

 

I am also worried about the engine needing to be rebuilt. It turned over 4-5 times before firing up, but otherwise it had lots of power. You tell me?

[knuckleharley]

I know a 90's cash car might keep more money in my bank and keep me on the road immediately, but I feel that in the long run a classic will be cheaper to maintain myself, and will be worth more if I sell.

 

 

A used modern car can be one of the most expensive mistakes you can make if it doesn't have a factory warranty that goes with it. They are insanely expensive to repair,and to even get a repair estimate on because they have to be hooked up to a computer to discover what is wrong with them. Shock absorbers on used 90's cars can cost 250 dollars or more for each shock,plus labor. I think I paid about 300 bucks to get a shift sensor installed on the Allison automatic trans in my 06 GMC diesel pu by the time I paid labor and shipping. A rebuilt transmission runs between 5 and 6 grand for that truck. I have been told it costs right at $1,000 to replace the water pump. Most of it is labor.

 

I just had the remote control door lock and power window sensor/switch replaced in the same truck a couple of weeks ago,plus one of the speakers was bad. $457.

 

I'm thinking once you start comparing these modern car and truck repair prices to what it cost to repair your 54 Plymouth,the Plymouth is going to start looking REAL good.

 

The main thing you want to keep in mind is it pays to fix something right to start with so you don't have to do the work twice. Buy quality parts and install and service them properly.

[Young Ed]

Well it does seem to be running well under it's own power right now. Concerns are just the electrical wiring, overheating, and the brakes (It does stop, just not quickly, need to pump the brake pedal). Honestly I'm not even too worried about the electrical as an immediate catastrophe, I can live without dash lights and a radio for a while.

 

I am also worried about the engine needing to be rebuilt. It turned over 4-5 times before firing up, but otherwise it had lots of power. You tell me?

That sounds fine you just aren't used to a carberated non computer controlled engine

[Ulu]

If you're prepared to work on your own car, there aren't many easier to fix than an old Plymouth. They were well designed and well built. They have a few quirks, but in general they are about the most straight forward cars to fix and maintain.

 

I will say this: You must replace the original wiring on these cars. when I started removing my original wiring, the insulation simply crumbled in my fingers as I pulled the wires out. Inside the wire was dark and corroding from moisture which had penetrated the old cloth insulation.

 

The wiring is very simple to do, but if you try to use the old wiring you'll have problems. I've never seen a Plymouth catch fire due to old wiring, but I watched a '53 Pontiac burn the original wiring & nearly the whole engine. The engine was simply started after not running for a while, and the normal vibration knocked insulation from the ignition wire right where they were clipped to the car.

 

Fortunately the car was parked with the hood up, so we got the fire out in seconds.

 

But if we'd been driving it at the time the whole car might have burned.

[Plymouthy Adams]

4-5 turns............I think you are doing a very good job of talking yourself out of the car....

Edited May 13, 2014 by Plymouthy Adams

[knuckleharley]

 

 

I am also worried about the engine needing to be rebuilt. It turned over 4-5 times before firing up, but otherwise it had lots of power. You tell me?

That's not unusual. Old cars have mechanical fuel pumps instead of the electrical ones that start pumping fuel under pressure the minute you turn the ignition key.

 

What kind of oil pressure does it hold once it is warmed up and idling? Does it smoke,knock,or make any other rude noises? If all this seems to be ok,run a compression test on the engine and that will tell you the condition of your rings and valves.

 

Have you changed the oil and filter in it yet? When you do,make sure you use 30 weight non-detergent oil. You can buy it at any NAPA store by the case pretty cheap,so just keep it in the trunk so you will have it when you need it.

 

Sounds to me like the brakes need to be bled,but don't let that fool you. If the car has been sitting for a long time you can bleed the brakes and have them working fine,and then a few days later  the dried out rubber seals start leaking like a sieve,and you have no brakes. Brakes is not a area to cut corners. Replace the old lines and the hoses,and rebuild or replace the wheel cylinders and master cylinder.

 

When/if you get ready to rebuild the brakes,make a post here about what you are doing and ask for parts numbers and vendor suggestions.  Learn from their experiences before you spend unnecessary money. People here are friendly and willing to help if you ask.

 

The thing to do to keep from getting overwhelmed is to tackle one thing at a time,and when you have finished that,move on to something else.  Focus on safety items first and then you can drive the car while you wait to do other things.

 

BTW,that is a really nice looking and clean old Plymouth. I am no expert on the creatures,but it seems to me that most women seem to like attention,and your wife just may enjoy the attention she gets while riding around in a nice old car. Especially if she likes antiques in general.

 

BTW-2,if you have no place to work and no tools,you might want to check with your local community colleges and trade schools to see if you can get one of them to do some of the work for you.  IF you and they can fit it into your schedules,you can save a bundle this way because all they charge for it parts. No labor.

Edited May 13, 2014 by knuckleharley

[Spy]

4-5 turns............I think you are doing a very good job of talking yourself out of the car....

It's not that I think it's bad, my friends 67 Impala turns over 10+ times before starting up, and it is a very reliable daily driver for him.

 

I just read in an earlier post, that with these engines you can't really tell when it needs a rebuild. One hint is if it takes longer to start. Would 5 turns be considered cause for concern?

[knuckleharley]

It's not that I think it's bad, my friends 67 Impala turns over 10+ times before starting up, and it is a very reliable daily driver for him.

 

I just read in an earlier post, that with these engines you can't really tell when it needs a rebuild. One hint is if it takes longer to start. Would 5 turns be considered cause for concern?

They are very easy to check. If they engine doesn't make any noises while running and it doesn't smoke badly,it doesn't need to be rebuilt.

 

The truth is engines just don't come any simpler than flathead 4's and 6's. Not at all complicated and everything is easy to get to in order to work on it.

[Spy]

What kind of oil pressure does it hold once it is warmed up and idling?

 

Well, after all the sound advice I got from this thread, and my thread on AACA, I've pretty much accepted that I shouldn't buy this car in my financial and living situation. I have a despised list of 10 Honda's and Toyota's from the 90's on craigslist that I'm going to start calling about tomorrow.

 

So I don't actually have it, to look into any of that. Probably won't ever have it.

 

 

They are very easy to check. If they engine doesn't make any noises while running and it doesn't smoke badly,it doesn't need to be rebuilt.

 

No smoke, no knocking, car sounded and felt very healthy mechanically.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Spy

[Niel Hoback]

Maybe it hurts now, but you will see the wisdom of the decision later.  Please don't take offense at this, but it just doesn't sound like you have the basic mechanical experience to wrap all of your assets in an old car that you already know needs work.  After your schooling, a decent job will come along and you will have the resources to buy a car you can enjoy without worrying about being able to afford it.   

[knuckleharley]

Well, after all the sound advice I got from this thread, and my thread on AACA, I've pretty much accepted that I shouldn't buy this car in my financial and living situation. I have a despised list of 10 Honda's and Toyota's from the 90's on craigslist that I'm going to start calling about tomorrow.

 

You really can't go wrong with a Nissan Altima,and they are probably a little cheaper than either the Honda or the Toyota. As a matter of fact,I consider them to be the best value for the money of any new car sold.

 

Sorry to hear you are not going to be buying the Plymouth,but you know what? That's what they make next year for. Just because you can't do it right now,that doesn't mean you won't be able to find and get something similar in a year or two if that's what you really want.

Edited May 13, 2014 by knuckleharley

[Dodgeb4ya]

You made the right decision not to buy the plymouth as a daily driver. If you bought it as a fun weekend car to drive and learn to work on as needed with extra funds I'd say yes buy it in a heart beat.

I've had a few customers do what you wanted to do as a daily driver-they ended up selling their classic car because it was not as comfy, fast and easy to drive every day to work as was their newer modern car.

As a second fun car the old cars are awesome!

Bob

Edited May 13, 2014 by Dodgeb4ya

[Tim Keith]

Old cars like that can be good daily drivers if they can be driven like they would have been when it was new.  Freeway driving conditions are so different today.   If you talked to Mr Asche he would say that a Plymouth like that could be used every day,  but it would need lots of ongoing attention to get in trustworthy shape.  A fun 2nd or 3rd car.   I wish I'd bought a clean P15 when I was young, but it would have been a poor choice as my only car.

[50desotocoupe]

I most likely will have an opinion contrary to what everyone else has mentioned.  I say the only way to learn in life is to try it.  If you like the car and it interests you as a daily driver...then by all means buy it for a daily driver. People have pointed out the positives and negatives on both sides.  I say go for it!

[Dodgeb4ya]

If you can afford it go for it.

[Ulu]

It's not the last cool old car you'll see for sale. They'll wander through your life every now and then.

[Spy]

If you can afford it go for it.

 

Basically my final decision is, if he will take $2,500 for it, I'll go for it. Then I'll at least have some money to get it safe for the road. Otherwise I'll get something cheaper and reliable from the 90's, save up cash until I move back to Texas next year, and buy a classic then. 

 

The guy with the Plymouth hasn't responded to call or email in the past couple days, it's possible he already sold it.