Factory Brake Job

[HanksB3B]

Around 30 years ago after we were done stripping a parts truck that my friend "Slick" (the guy that got me into this whole Mopar mess) Slick cut me loose and said take everything you want before I dump the cab and frame. 25 years passed and I returned to the storage locker where I had carelessly left the extra parts.

To my surprise I remembered the lock combination and thanks to the building management’s in-efficiency …they were still there. (I didn’t live there anymore)

 

A trip to Sandblast Jose’s shop and the parts were one step closer to being worth restoring.

 

x

 

One of the lower (heel) cam pins on my truck was frozen solid from rust. In all the years I don’t think these were ever wire wheeled.  The inboard side of these cam pins has a slot that facilitates a what the Dodge Truck Manual refers to as a major brake adjustment, in which both the heel  toe are adjusted. It just made sense to wire wheel and lightly coat the pins with high temp grease so that the fine tuning of both the upper and lower adjustment cams go smoothly.

 

 

Continued on post #2

Edited February 8, 2014 by HanksB3B

[HanksB3B]

 

I measured the thickness of installed drums at .187 and the drums recovered from the locker at .375. Twice as thick…it’s a no-brainer… Time to install the sandblasted ones.

 

 

A quick squirt of CRC Brakleen and a wipe down with a clean microfiber towel (lint free)

 

 

A quick coat of Dupli-Color (Great Fast Drying) Caliper paint and in less than five minutes they are looking better than what you’d expect to see on the Dealer’s Parts counter back in 1951.

 

 

Today is brake adjustment and cotter pin day and oh yeah don’t forget the test drive part..

Happy Saturday.  Hope your projects go as smoothly as this one did,

 

 Hank 

 

 

P.S. This will probably get me through until I start mocking up my other set of spindles with the Rusty Hope Kit. Since I am hoping in the future to install a 3.54 or 3.73 differential .

Edited February 8, 2014 by HanksB3B

[MBF]

Lookin' good Hank!  Nice find and recovery.

[HanksB3B]

Well I got it all buttoned up, got the wheels back on, lowered the truck off the jack stands, torqued the wheels, took a test drive and skidded all over the driveway with locked up wheels. No big deal and actually was expecting to back off the toe adjustment of the leading and trailing shoe...but no I had to see this thread http://p15-d24.com/topic/35156-b1b-brakes/ and in post #11 JBNeal helps me out by showing that I have the felt washers and metal cap wrong. The truck has been running this way for a couple of years with what appears to be no ill effect in brake shoe wear but it may be enough to contribute a little bit to the binding situation.

 

I guess today will be an Instant Replay,

 

Hank 

 

(See Post #1 picture #5 and compare it to this):

Edited February 10, 2014 by HanksB3B

[Plymouthy Adams]

well..if looks equals good brakes you should be able to stop on a dime and get nine cents change...clean and neat job..

[HanksB3B]

Well..Not so fast partner:  Truck=2 (days)  Hank=0 (and Wiped Out ! Who needs a Gym ?)

 

Athough my assembly is correct now as shown,

 

 

I'm struggling to adjust the heel and toe brakes without either the AAmco or Miller Brake Tool. I know a few of you have homemade tools and I guess it's my time to make one.

 

 

 

I will try to read whatever instructions and tips I have compiled from former P15-D24 threads and posts and try to get the brakes working. They have had very good stopping power for driving around town at 45 mph max in the pas.t

 

If anyone would be so kind and either direct me to past threads or has some poor-mans hands-on tips, I'd really appreciate it.

 

True, I have other stuff to do, but  because driving is a whole lot more fun than researching (especially because it's supposed to be 85 deg. on Valentines Day, a ride down to the ocean would be a lot more fun.

 

Thanks,

 

Hank

 

P.S. Other than stopping power, there is a lot to be said for disc brakes which I am usually able to change in 20 min. per wheel. 

Edited February 11, 2014 by HanksB3B

[John-T-53]

_{Looks pretty hank! Hey are those two metal lawn chairs partially in your second picture yours??}

 

_{As for adjusting, I don't have a miller tool or a home made version, but just used the drums as a reference to adjust the shoes. It's a trial and error process, but not that bad. Rotate the cams so they're way in and first adjust the end with the eccentric anchor bolt (I don't know which end is called the heel / toe). Get the anchors adjusted so they are just under dragging while rotating the drum, then move the cams out slowly. You'll have to go back to the anchors and adjust again, and then back to the cams, but it works.}

 

_{Edit: Very important....make sure the hydraulic line at the rears doesn't hit the rivet heads on the inside of the drum! I had this happen on mine after I made a new line and failed to check for this. Took the drum off one day to inspect and caught it just in time!}

Edited February 11, 2014 by John-T-53

[HanksB3B]

_{Looks pretty hank! Hey are those two metal lawn chairs partially in your second picture yours??}

 

_{As for adjusting, I don't have a miller tool or a home made version, but just used the drums as a reference to adjust the shoes. It's a trial and error process, but not that bad. Rotate the cams so they're way in and first adjust the end with the eccentric anchor bolt (I don't know which end is called the heel / toe). Get the anchors adjusted so they are just under dragging while rotating the drum, then move the cams out slowly. You'll have to go back to the anchors and adjust again, and then back to the cams, but it works.}

 

_{Edit: Very important....make sure the hydraulic line at the rears doesn't hit the rivet heads on the inside of the drum! I had this happen on mine after I made a new line and failed to check for this. Took the drum off one day to inspect and caught it just in time!}

 

 

No the lawn chairs are just some of the strange stuff that ends up at SandBlast Jose’s shop. Why are they Vintage ? 

 

That’s sort of the route I’m taking. I do have a vintage K&E Beam compass that just might work and I definitely owe my truck a homemade tool like whoever posted the PVC one. Looks perfect for the job. I know my front spindles are 1.25” dia. Do you know (or anybody) what the rear axle diameter on a 51 half ton is because naturally I want the tool to work for both. I’m scanning the brake section and will put it on my Kindle and read it a few times and will take whatever advice I get here on the Forum. I’ve run trouble free brakewise for years without the tool it’s just that my truck is a little fussy lately.

 

I'm working on the fronts and have replaced one of the lines at the rear as it was getting sliced but that was some years ago. Good advice for anyone replacing their rear brake cylinders and lines.

 

Thanks for helping,

 

Hank  

  

Edited February 12, 2014 by HanksB3B

[ggdad1951]

_{Looks pretty hank! Hey are those two metal lawn chairs partially in your second picture yours??}

 

_{As for adjusting, I don't have a miller tool or a home made version, but just used the drums as a reference to adjust the shoes. It's a trial and error process, but not that bad. Rotate the cams so they're way in and first adjust the end with the eccentric anchor bolt (I don't know which end is called the heel / toe). Get the anchors adjusted so they are just under dragging while rotating the drum, then move the cams out slowly. You'll have to go back to the anchors and adjust again, and then back to the cams, but it works.}

 

_{Edit: Very important....make sure the hydraulic line at the rears doesn't hit the rivet heads on the inside of the drum! I had this happen on mine after I made a new line and failed to check for this. Took the drum off one day to inspect and caught it just in time!}

 

this is also what I did, takes longer but if you have the "feel" it goes pretty quick.

[HanksB3B]

this is also what I did, takes longer but if you have the "feel" it goes pretty quick.

 

Thanks for ther encouragement guys. I do have the "feel" (or at least I used to). I picked up what I think are a couple of tricks so far:

1. Make it easy on yourself. Without a nut, turn the eccentric anchor pins so that the cotter pin loads from the top. (hunting around for the angle where the cotter pin passes through can prove to be somewat time consuming) 
2. Before final tightening, (and enough for a gentle test drive) the lockwasher under the nut that holds the brakes and tie rod only needs to be tight enough to compress the lock washer.
3. By holding the anchor pin with a right angle screwdriver (or my jerry-rigged setup) the cotter pin is easily placed as in picture 3 and the nut tightened once the void in the castle nut is aligned with the hole..   
4. The arrows are then simply aligned so that the arrows face each as described in the Truck Manual as shown in picture 5.      

I'm hopful that by using this method that allows the eccentric pin to be rotated without loosening the castle nut, I will be able to adjust both the eccentric anchor pin and the 1-1/16" cam nut.

 

I gave it a rest today. Will see what tomorrow brings. Is it possible that my brake "GRABBING" is due to an air bubble in the system? 

 

Hank   

 

P.S. To make this method work (and it really should be the case) the pins need to be clean, the holes thru the tie rod bottle brushed clean and the pins lightly greased.

Edited February 12, 2014 by HanksB3B

[55 Fargo]

Looks great Hank, I vote for you, as having the best threads and post design and quality. You really do a great job, of organizing and detailing your posts. Evidently you also appear to do very fine detail work....

[HanksB3B]

Looks great Hank, I vote for you, as having the best threads and post design and quality. You really do a great job, of organizing and detailing your posts. Evidently you also appear to do very fine detail work....

 

Fargos-Go-Far,

 

That's really nice to say. This is a great forum with great guys with great trucks! 

 

Hank 

 

and here's you might like (whoa, it's off topic) but here goes.. 

Edited February 14, 2014 by HanksB3B

[HanksB3B]

_{Looks pretty hank! Hey are those two metal lawn chairs partially in your second picture yours??}

 

_{As for adjusting, I don't have a miller tool or a home made version, but just used the drums as a reference to adjust the shoes. It's a trial and error process, but not that bad. Rotate the cams so they're way in and first adjust the end with the eccentric anchor bolt (I don't know which end is called the heel / toe). Get the anchors adjusted so they are just under dragging while rotating the drum, then move the cams out slowly. You'll have to go back to the anchors and adjust again, and then back to the cams, but it works.}

 

_{Edit: Very important....make sure the hydraulic line at the rears doesn't hit the rivet heads on the inside of the drum! I had this happen on mine after I made a new line and failed to check for this. Took the drum off one day to inspect and caught it just in time!}

 

 

this is also what I did, takes longer but if you have the "feel" it goes pretty quick.

 

I think I've got the feel and so honestly I was surprised my left brake binded up causing me to back-up to free up the brake then by applying minimal pedal pressure to get er parked.  Forum member RodFru2u suggested using a flat file to give the leading (or toe) a slight taper and by slight I mean a 22.5 deg taper about 1/4" long off the esisting 45 deg bevel of the Mesothelomia Material of our brake shoes. 

 

Hank 

[HanksB3B]

Harbor Freight Brake Job:

 

I had a good feeling when I saw this tool in Harbor Freight this morning

 

It allowed me to scribe a line. The right hand brake assembly was fairly consistant 

 

But the left brake the left hand brake (the one that was binding) was all over the map. In general the tool helps to get a fairly accurate visual look and feel for what is really happening.

 

I was also able to closely approximate comparison points between right brake shoes and the left brake shoes. 

 

I'm not done, but have a good feeling that things are going to go well,

 

Hank 

Edited February 15, 2014 by HanksB3B

[TodFitch]

I like that caliper/dividers method of looking at the shoe adjustment. Maybe you should add that post as a new thread in the technical archives area. . .

[Jeff Balazs]

I am curious how you are going to arc these shoes accurately?

Mind you it is not something I have to worry about.....but I am curious.

 

Jeff

[Don Coatney]

I am curious how you are going to arc these shoes accurately?

Mind you it is not something I have to worry about.....but I am curious.

 

Jeff

Me too

[HanksB3B]

Me too

 

Me three.

 

Soon when everything is running smooth I'm hoping to mock-up a set my back-up set of spindles with the Rusty Hope Kit that :)Charlie  sent me. After I read up on what calipers I need I hope to either Rock Auto or Rebuild from salvage. I need to read the chapter on brakes in the Truck Manual. My brake shoes as dead flat, Roberts OEM from back a while. I remember glancing in the brake chapter about "arching" the shoes and I thought it was for the bigger trucks and not applicable to my 1/2 ton B3B. Thanks Jeff and Don.

 

Please advise about arching the brake shoes. Thanks

  

Hank    

[TodFitch]

Having drums that have been turned a bit, and not all the same, I've been interested in this subject. Haven't found a ePay deal on an arcing machine in my budget so. . .

 

I believe from what I've read that you actually want the shoes to be arced to a slightly smaller diameter than the drum. I found some sticky back sand paper at my local hardware store that was fairly thin stock. Can't recall the exact thickness at the moment, but I did take the calipers to the store with me when I was looking. I cut  lengths of it to be about the circumference of each drum and stuck them in. Then I simply rubbed the shoes for each drum against the sand paper in the drum until they contacted evenly. Pretty unscientific and probably no where near the official specification for arcing shoes.

 

But it did allow me to use the Amco tool and get a pretty good fit which I was not able to do before the sanding operation.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Thirty thousanths undersize is the undersize shoe grinding machining specification. My Ammco Safe-Arc 8000  machine automatically grinds this undersize on shoes.  Helps for initial shoe wear in and noise elimination.

Bob

Edited March 4, 2014 by Dodgeb4ya

[55 Fargo]

Twenty thousanths undersize is the  under size shoe grinding machining specification. My Ammco Safe-Arc 8000  machine automatically grinds this undersize on shoes.  Helps for initial shoe wear in and noise elimination.

Bob

Nice to be able to get that instant worn in effect via the arcing machine. Bob I followed your experience and directions for my past 47 Chrysler brakes, they took a bit to wear in, but those brakes were and still are excellent, could put someone through the windshield when hitting that pedal hard. The new owner says they are the best out of several vintage Mopars he owns....

[Dodgeb4ya]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Fred!!

Bob

[TodFitch]

Twenty thousanths undersize is the  under size shoe grinding machining specification. My Ammco Safe-Arc 8000  machine automatically grinds this undersize on shoes.  Helps for initial shoe wear in and noise elimination.

Bob

I think the sandpaper I got was a little thicker than that. Maybe 0.030, so my effort ended up with the shoes undersized by that amount, about 0.010 smaller than they should be. If/when I find a Safe-Arc machine in my price range I'll try to snag it. In the meantime the sandpaper was cheap and readily available and got the shoes to fit the drums far better than they did before the operation.

[HanksB3B]

I am curious how you are going to arc these shoes accurately?

Mind you it is not something I have to worry about.....but I am curious.

 

Jeff

 

Accurately might not be the correct word but the blacksmith in me got the better of me today I guess but here goes:

 

 

Working on this truck has become a vice.

 

 

If you bisect and angle each leg is equal in length.  

 

 

Bisect again and it starts to become an arch.

 

 

x

 

 

 

To be continued...

 

Hank 

 

Things seem to be coming together. Anticipating a successful test ride tomorrow.

Edited February 18, 2014 by HanksB3B

[HanksB3B]

My theory is that when pressure is applied to a brake shoe that is out of adjustment it causes the leading edge to rotate about a single eccentric axis. This can result in an acute angle forming  between the toe of the shoe and the drum, causing the wheel to lock-up. Because of the design difference (1-wheel cylinder front vs 2 rear wheel cylinders back) This condition can only happen to the front brakes...maybe..

 

 

We'll see about all that,

 

Hank  

 

P.S. All the above explanation really means is that my truck has a wedgie  

Edited February 18, 2014 by HanksB3B