Brake Bleeding and Crush Washer Question

[plymouthcranbrook]

I am having a problem with two areas of my recent repair effort on my 52 Cranbrook.  The first is related to bleeding of the front brakes. l seem to be unable to get any brake fluid out of the left front lower cylinder.   Right side bleed ok on both upper and lower, Left has good fluid on the upper but not the lower.  Line between the two is open, and unscrewing the line from the lower while keeping the upper connected shows a little fluid coming out. I have not finally adjusted the brakes but using my sizing tool the shoes are close to the drum.  And all three other wheels did bleed out ok.  Second problem relates to the crush washers that connect the brake rubber hose to the upper front wheel cylinder. When removing the cylinder I noticed that the  washers were the strangest I had ever seen. Shaped liked a saucer with a thick base.  One was bent so I called around looking for a new set.(Rock Auto apparently does not supply these with new cylinders) Several said no, the did not have them(One said that they come with new cylinders)  I found one place that after several discussions thought they had the correct ones. When they arrived they were flat and fit loosely over the male part of the hose. Being sure they could not be right, I then went to the local NAPA store and found a washer that although flat, fit very well around the hose and was big enough to cover the sealing area. The left side(where the problem with bleeding was) seems to have sealed ok but the right side where bleeding seems ok is oozing at the connection.  Does anyone have any experience with this and have any ideas?  Any assistance greatly appreciated as it seems almost every job that I start on this car takes forever and has complications.  Thanks.

Edited September 26, 2013 by plymouthcranbrook

[desoto1939]

I have a Wagner Brake catalog at Home I will check the catalog to see what is the proper size flat washer that should be used on your brakes hoses.

 

The other issue sounds as if you might some blockage in the small brake line that connects the two wheel cylinders.  Can you run a smal semi stiff wire up in to the line to see if there is any blockage.  Might even disconnect the line and then run the wire from the top to the bottom.  Is the line pinched in any place.  I would think you should have a good stream of brake fluid when pumping the brake pedal.

 

I have single cyls onmy 39 Desoto so I am not up on the double wheel cylinders.

 

Just my thought on the issue.  Send me you home email and I will send you the information

 

Rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol

[_shel_ny]

Did you starting with the lower cylinder on the front. Manual shows that as the procedure to clear air from the tube. Seems it should work either way, but you never know. As you have not adjusted the shoes, you may not have enough pressure on that cylinder. You can pull the drum, put a bar clamp on the shoes, and bleed that way. Adjustment of shoes is then not a factor.

[plymouthcranbrook]

Yes, I did start with the lower one on each wheel.  I could hear and feel the shoes hitting the drum when the pedal was pushed on each side. The right one went great except for the small leak.  I blew through the small line and got a good flow of air but will try putting a small piece of piano wire through  to check.  Thanks for checking the washer size. I will check back

Edited September 26, 2013 by plymouthcranbrook

[TodFitch]

I think the washer you are looking for is listed as "Brake Flexible Hose Gasket" with a parts type code 5-62-07. For '39 through '48 the part number is 1123332. Maybe your '52 uses the same number.

 

Unfortunately, I can't tell you a modern cross reference for that number. Hopefully Rich can find it in his Wagner book. If he does, I'd like to add it to my database.

 

If you were looking for the one used in '33 and '34 I could have helped you with a modern cross.

[desoto1939]

I think the washer you are looking for is listed as "Brake Flexible Hose Gasket" with a parts type code 5-62-07. For '39 through '48 the part number is 1123332. Maybe your '52 uses the same number.

 

Unfortunately, I can't tell you a modern cross reference for that number. Hopefully Rich can find it in his Wagner book. If he does, I'd like to add it to my database.

 

If you were looking for the one used in '33 and '34 I could have helped you with a modern cross.

I know I helped my friend with his 39 Desoto and was able to tell him the size of the crush washer that went on his 39 Desoto.  They come in various sizes.  He got his from a local NAPA store in Maryland.  When I get home I will check my wagner brake book.

 

This is why having the various catalogs that i have collected and also on CD come in handy.  The reference material is priceless for answer questions. The cost of the various CDs are reasonable for your reference library. I know I am doing a sales pitch but only so much info can be given away.

 

rich Hartung

[Young Ed]

I just got a new copper oil pan drain plug gasket from napa. They had a catalog with quite a few pages of various OD and ID copper washers. Bring your old one and see if they can match it  up.

[ptwothree]

I just, 5 min. ago put the finishing touches on the brakes of my '51.  As long as the copper washer fits the male end and sealing area and is not too thick, it will work.  I would take that whl cyl off the car and install the hose off the car as it's tough to get a wrench on it given the way it's mounted to the cyl.  I put mine in a vise and installed the hose.  

 

I would also check the bleeder screws for blockage.  One of mine was full of crud and would'nt pass fluid.  Check the flex hose, make sure it's not plugged.   

 

And lastly, don't over tighten the cam bolts.  This is a pivot point for the shoes.  If too tight, they won't release...been there and done that.  Good Luck!!!

[plymouthcranbrook]

If you can find the old number it would be greatly appreciated. No one I have talked to has the washers separate or in most cases with the wheel cylinders.  The ones I bought from NAPA seemed to fit very well and I was surprised that the one side didn't seal. I am going to remove it again on Sunday and see if I can figure out what is not right. I spoke to Vintage Power Wagons about the bleeding problem and their suggestion was to use a power bleeder. I noticed a home made one in another post and will look into it as well.  Thanks for all the information. If anyone else has any ideas please pass them on.  It seems funny that the washers that were on it we so different from any I have seem before.  Thanks ptwothree for the suggestions. I will try and see if they help.

Edited September 27, 2013 by plymouthcranbrook

[_shel_ny]

I have not tried a pressure bleeder.  I have used a vacuum pump with good results.

[Dave72dt]

I'd be curious to see what the saucer shaped washer actually looked like. Some diesel engines used a saucer shaped copper washer to seal the injectors against compression and combustion pressure and may have been used as an alternative sealing washer for the brake line

[Dodgeb4ya]

Here is a couple of pictures of the OE copper MoPar type brake hose washers. The larger outer diameter of the washer also completely covers the backing plate brake hose hole to prevent dirt ect getting by and into the brakes.

Bob

[plymouthcranbrook]

Here is a couple of pictures of the OE copper MoPar type brake hose washers. The larger outer diameter of the washer also completely covers the backing plate brake hose hole to prevent dirt ect getting by and into the brakes.

Bob

That is what they look like. Does anyone have a source for them?

[plymouthcranbrook]

Got everything solved. Went back to Napa when I couldn't find a supplier of the original parts. Found a washer just a little thicker than the ones I first tried. Took out upper cylinders as suggested and put on the hoses in a vise.  Bought Vacuum  bleeder for the lower left cylinder and after several tries got a little fluid through it.  Then pedal bled it the rest of the way. The left lower never got a hard stream out of it as the others all did but no air.  Then readjusted  the brakes and put it back together. Went on a 6 mile ride and everything seems good. Happy me.

Edited October 4, 2013 by plymouthcranbrook