Can A Flat Head Be A Daily Driver, 230Cu, Route Van

[wayfarer]

Here is a link to Robert Horne's 5-speed swap. This is great for maintaining the stock bell.

http://p15-d24.com/topic/17737-5-speed-not-t5/

 

If you can swap bellhousings then look at my website for the AX15 swap.

[De Soto Frank]

RE: Rims & Tires...

 

 

I know there's a camp that feels an old vehicle cannot be a reliable, viable daily driver, unless all of its operating systems are replaced / "upgraded" with modern hardware / software (tires).

 

I just have to get this off my chest:  these machines were well engineered from the factory for their original purposes;  in the case of a truck (1950 thinking), to haul loads from point A to Point B. 

 

Route vans ( ie: "step-vans", "door-to-door" delivery vans, etc.)  were further refinements of that philosophy.

 

Put the original equipment back into proper functioning order, and it will fulfill its original design function, as when new.

 

That means that: points ignition, bias-ply tires, multi-piece rims, drum brakes, solid I-beam front axle, etc. all STILL WORK.

 

Now, this talk of taller rear-end, 5-speed tranny, modern rims & tires(radials), (did I hear "lowering of the body / chassis" ?), might be for naught.

 

A bulky box truck is not unlike a boat:  the body / hull design is going to have a lot to do with the ulitmate performance & handling  of the vessel...  in terms of speed and highway driving, that big box body, with its vertical rear-end treatment is going to have a LOT of drag to it;   you will probably need more power than the 230 flathead will furnish  to shove this thing down the higway at 50 + MPH.

 

Chevy's stock engine for their Box Vans in the 1960's & '70's was the 292 six (HUGE torque), usually backed-up by a 4-speed (top gear=direct drive) and 4.57  or 5.13 rear.  They might have done 65-70 mph, screaming

 

I like the idea of the 5-speed tranny to get an overdrive and tame the RPMS down, but again, the engine might not have enough grunt to swing that OD.

I'm a big fan of keeping things stock and learning to accept them the way they are and enjoy them as-is.

 

 

Two of my very frequent drivers  / tour cars are a 1928 Ford Model A Special Coupe, and a '41 De Soto sedan.  Both are bone stock, and mechanically un-restored.  Both are rock-solid reliable, as-built.

 

That's me,  I've said it, gotten it out of my system...   ...  be thoughtful about what you do to your vehicle...

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

I think it will be kinda "Tanky" to drive around town and not a good freeway driver. Don't mess with the rear end as parts are not easily available for that "IRS" rear axle assembly..

I'd leave it stock but make sure all the drive train is up to snuff 100%. It's an around towner. Start delivering bread cookies and milk!

Edited September 13, 2013 by Dodgeb4ya

[55 Fargo]

RE: Rims & Tires...

 

 

I know there's a camp that feels an old vehicle cannot be a reliable, viable daily driver, unless all of its operating systems are replaced / "upgraded" with modern hardware / software (tires).

 

I just have to get this off my chest:  these machines were well engineered from the factory for their original purposes;  in the case of a truck (1950 thinking), to haul loads from point A to Point B. 

 

Route vans ( ie: "step-vans", "door-to-door" delivery vans, etc.)  were further refinements of that philosophy.

 

Put the original equipment back into proper functioning order, and it will fulfill its original design function, as when new.

 

That means that: points ignition, bias-ply tires, multi-piece rims, drum brakes, solid I-beam front axle, etc. all STILL WORK.

 

Now, this talk of taller rear-end, 5-speed tranny, modern rims & tires(radials), (did I hear "lowering of the body / chassis" ?), might be for naught.

 

A bulky box truck is not unlike a boat:  the body / hull design is going to have a lot to do with the ulitmate performance & handling  of the vessel...  in terms of speed and highway driving, that big box body, with its vertical rear-end treatment is going to have a LOT of drag to it;   you will probably need more power than the 230 flathead will furnish  to shove this thing down the higway at 50 + MPH.

 

Chevy's stock engine for their Box Vans in the 1960's & '70's was the 292 six (HUGE torque), usually backed-up by a 4-speed (top gear=direct drive) and 4.57  or 5.13 rear.  They might have done 65-70 mph, screaming

 

I like the idea of the 5-speed tranny to get an overdrive and tame the RPMS down, but again, the engine might not have enough grunt to swing that OD.

I'm a big fan of keeping things stock and learning to accept them the way they are and enjoy them as-is.

 

 

Two of my very frequent drivers  / tour cars are a 1928 Ford Model A Special Coupe, and a '41 De Soto sedan.  Both are bone stock, and mechanically un-restored.  Both are rock-solid reliable, as-built.

 

That's me,  I've said it, gotten it out of my system...   ...  be thoughtful about what you do to your vehicle...

 

Well said Frank, not every vintage car/truck/van need to be modified, changed ,hopped up to be reliable drivers. Yes they may not get away with it on the freeway, but plenty of around town, and small single lane US and State highways to travel on. 

[rkldesign]

Yes well said, I am 99% sure that I will go the original route as the parts are all there and just need to be checked for function.

The body gets lift off next week and will try and post pics of the process.  I have not been able to find pics of a bare chassis and so this will be fun and neat to share.  IRS rear end and offset engine location.  

 

Richard

[Desotodav]

There's quite a few pages of good information on route van's in Don Bunn's book (see attached photos). It sure will be good to see more photos of your van Richard once you get the project underway.

[De Soto Frank]

There's quite a few pages of good information on route van's in Don Bunn's book (see attached photos). It sure will be good to see more photos of your van Richard once you get the project underway.

 

 

Holy Socks, Batman !  That rear suspension is something else !    I wonder if the drive-line engineers at Dodge were inspired by certain German vehicles from the War...

[48Dodger]

Jim,

 

When is the BBQ?  I will use that date as my deadline!  

 

Richard

 

The Clements Tailgate BBQ is usally the first weekend of April...so maybe April 5th, 2014.... its a good deadline for you, still a ways off.  

 

48D

 

2013 Clements tailgate BBQ

Edited September 19, 2013 by 48dodger

[ggdad1951]

Already lloking like I won't be able to make it this year as well.   The timing is right in sync with the Frozen Four again this year, and sadly will most likely continue to be butting heads.    Unless I can afford to fly out the weekend before the FF and then fly directly to it to meet up with my hockey cohorts...anyone need a kitchen?  I need more money again!

[Scruffy49]

Stock? Aw man... If that was mine it would have  440, 727 and C4 Corvette suspension... kidding, but I'd love to drop both my L6s in the pond and run a V8. Top speed on my truck as built is 53 miles per hour, wound up as tight as it can go w/o breaking anything. The original truck 218 snapped its crankshaft in half back in 58 or 63... the replacement 218 has broken rings, and the replacement 230 needs a ton of work to be "right" for my build tastes.

 

I'm kind of the forum oddball, my 49 B1B is undergoing a static drop, getting fender skirts, Spring Specil style paint and a bunch of other period low rider touches... It is already slow, might as well be low...

[Merle Coggins]

... It is already slow, might as well be low...

 

   

[Desotodav]

I was at a car show on the weekend where they had a 54 Divco van on display. Van inspiration for you Richard? Got a spare (reported to be) $500k?. Nice van though! I found a few photos on the internet from the MotorEx 2013... 

Edited September 23, 2013 by Desotodav

[DJ194950]

Was 500k, au or us??

Might make at dellerence to someone.

 

Doug

[rkldesign]

Desotodave, thanks for the pics of the book, now i need to find a copy for myself.  

 

Scruffy49, I was thinking of a LS1 with a t56 manual trans and 9 bolt rear but it is kinda rare and there are only a few running in our nation.  So will have to preserve history and it does make the project easier.

 

More photos to come soon. Body is going to be lifted this week or next.  Looking forward to working on the drivetrain with nothing in the way.  Also I have seen the chassis driven with no body on and so I want to do it too.

 

Can anyone give me tips on easy ways to get photos added to posts?

 

Thanks,  Richard

[Desotodav]

A search around on the internet for the book that we commonly refer to as the 'Bunn Bible' should locate one suitably priced for you. Here's one presently listed on Ebay... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-B-Series-Trucks-Restorers-Collectors-Reference-Guide-History-Don-Bunn-/251334582796?pt=Motors_Manuals_Literature&hash=item3a84b5620c&vxp=mtr .

 

Adding photos to posts was discussed a while back ... http://p15-d24.com/topic/32515-struggling-with-new-stuff/?hl=%20attach%20%20picture . I generally find it easier to attach thumbnails when I post pictures. There's some more info in the top-right of the forum screen toolbar - use the 'help' drop down then 'site help topics' then 'posting' and scroll down to the 'attachments' heading.

 

Thumbnail attached is from last weekends car show - features my mate Keith's 29 delivery van and my blue 52 truck 

[rkldesign]

I tried to post an image from my gallery.

Lets see if this works.

 

Richard

 

Desotodav, I ordered the book and am looking forward to reading it.

[Desotodav]

Well done Richard - on both picture attaching and also Bunn Bible wise! 

[rkldesign]

Got the Bunn Bible and it is a neat book.  I wish he spent more time on the Route Van and more pics too.  Looks like I will have to fill in the gaps with pics of my DRV.

[Jeff Balazs]

Richard;

I don't know if I would call it a bible........ but it certainly is a decent overview of a the Pilothouse trucks.

I am no expert but the best source of the info and help you are going to need is right here. That is a fact. One thing about this site that is very cool is the depth of information available. And as you go through the process of bringing your route van back to life every thread you start will be available to the next guy who steps into this process. Sweet huh? To think that as we all use this site to share info we are creating massive database on all things Pilothouse to share with others who have the same interest.

 

To me this is the best thing about the time we live in. 20 or 30 years ago a lot of this info would have simply gotten lost.......now it is so easy to share the experience. So post plenty of photos and go ahead and share your experience as the project unfolds. You will be amazed at how much easier your project will be and how many friends you will make.

 

Jeff

 

Jeff

[rkldesign]

Hey all thanks for the help, if anyone has a spare rear bumper from a b series truck I could use it.

 

WIll be posting more shots of the van in the next few days.

 

Richard

[rkldesign]

Shots of the beast prior to body lift off.

 

 

[rkldesign]

The lift off done at the mechanics shop.

 

[rkldesign]

Body delivered to Perfect It to do the media blasting and epoxy primer paint.  Will be done in two weeks and so I will get it prior to Thanksgiving.

 

[rkldesign]

Chassis at home and cleaning has started

[Scruffy49]

Hey all thanks for the help, if anyone has a spare rear bumper from a b series truck I could use it.

 

WIll be posting more shots of the van in the next few days.

 

Richard

 

The bumpers were only available for panels and Route Vans from the factory. The pickups with bumpers are running dealer or aftermarket vendor sourced units, usually just rolled c-channel.

 

Like so...

 

Any decent steel shop can roll you one. I'm thinking about slicing that one off since it is bent and running a roll pan until I have a chance to get my bumper straightened, shoertened and plated in so it has step running to the fenders. Unless I stick with throwing away the stock boring rear fenders and running 39-47 versions. Grandpa traded his Terraplane in on this truck new in 49. I'd honestly rather have the Hudson, so the 39-47 fenders give the PH a touch of that look.