Headlights Not Working

[DCurrent]

Hello all,

 

My headlights have not been working for some time now. I have been snooping around today to see if I can resolve the problem. First of all I have it seems no power to the switch. I was wondering if the leg towards the dash is to have power always or the leg away from the dash is to have power?

 

Also I noticed a toggle switch just right of the steering column. I have no idea what purpose this switch serves. It looks totally factory as the cut out for the toggle to go through is stamped and not drilled. Also the screws that hold the switch are counter sunk for just this switch. It seems to have three positions. Any ideas?

 

Thanks,

Darren

 

[_shel_ny]

I believe the switch is wired hot. EDIT: from the hot side of the ignition sw.

 

Smaller switch is for dash lights.

 

3 position.  Off, dim, dimmer as Greg G always says:)

 

There is a wiring diagram in the downloads if that will help.

Edited August 17, 2013 by shel_bizzy_48

[DCurrent]

I have a diagram, but it is useless as the wiring has been cut, spliced, taped, and cut again over the years. I eventually want to overhaul the whole harness, but that is a winter project. I'm just looking for a temporary fix for now. I figured the switch is wired hot, but where should the hot lead attach to the switch? Is it supposed to attach to the bottom of the switch on the bottom side of the fuse? Also I'm dealing with 12v not that it should make much difference. 

 

darren

[greg g]

There is a 30 amp fuse on the switch, if its out you will have no lights. Do your parking/running lamps work???  If so there is power to the switch.  The light switch should be powered from the out side of the ammeter.  the wires out of the headlamp switch are for the park lamps to the terminal block and the other goes to the stomp switch for low/high beams. then two wires leave the switch and go to the terminal block on the radiator support, one for high one for low. So by checking for power in to the switch, then out of the switch, stomp switch, at the terminal block and then out of the terminal block you can determine where the fault is.  Your head lamps are grounded to the bucket that wire is screwed into the bucket right where the tire splashes road debris on to it.  I found that by redoing those connection a better ground was established and the light were brighter.  I just turned mine on for the first time this season, and they didn't work.   Several cycles of the stomp switch restored them to operating condition.

 

Additionally, I powered my brake light switch directly from the bat side of the solenoid.  I put in a 20 amp inline fuse.  This pulls the load of the brake lights away from the headlamp fuse.  Mine used to pull down the fuse on the switch if I sat at a light with the brakes held down.  Apparently 45 seconds of head light and brake lights was more than teh fuse could deal with.

[Don Coatney]

As was mentioned the pictured switch is the dash light dimmer. I believe some are 2 position and some are 3 position. When I bought my cat the prior owner had done a half fast 12 volt conversion. I soon discovered that the dash light bulbs were still 6 volt as welll as the front parking light bulbs. Good grounds everywhere are tantamount in all electrical circuits on your car. As mentioned if the foot dimmer switch is sluggish sever stomps will clean the contacts.

 

[DCurrent]

yep, that is the toggle I'm referring to. I will have to remember to see if it works. I'm sure I have found the problem now.

 

Just for the record I have no lights at all. The above post said the switch is tied into the ammeter. Well since my car is now a 12v the ammeter showed only a discharge when the lights were on. That was its only purpose as I have a separate volt meter to show charge. That said, the wires on one side of the ammeter are completely disintegrated obviously from getting too hot!! Also, the hot feed wire that is supposed to attach to the bottom of the fuse has not been used. Why I have no idea or how the lights worked in the first place for a while during the short time I have owned the car. There is no evidence of a loose broken wire that I can see that is disconnected from the fuse.

 

So now I have completely disconnected the ammeter. If I supply a hot line to the bottom of the switch through the fuse, will that solve my problem? 

[greg g]

I would run a new wire (12gauge) from the battery side of the solenoid with an inline fuse to the in terminal of the head lamp switch.  that will safely put power to the switch and will be hot with ign off. I would wire from the switch to the solenoid and only attach it to power when you are ready to tes the switch.  The first notch of the switch should power one of the out terminal which will be for the park lamps.  the second position will power the line to the headlight dimmer switch.

 

However many items were powered from the out terminal of the ammeter. Those connections will need to be remade if your are going to abandon the ammeter and its power in line.  That line should be Isolated and made safe from inadvertent ground.

 

You might do yourself a favor if you were to go to the AP store and get a universal 6 or 8 circuit fuse box.  You could locate the fuse box in a convenient position and run all you circuits from it.  You can power it from the run terminal on the ign switch so those items powered through it would be off with ign off.  These circuits are pretty simple so should be easy to figure out going by an original wiring diagram.  Basically you would copy the circuits from the ammeter by substituting a feed from the fuse box.

Edited August 17, 2013 by greg g

[Don Coatney]

When doing this re-wire you should incorporate relays for all high current devices such as the headlights.

[DCurrent]

When doing this re-wire you should incorporate relays for all high current devices such as the headlights.

Yes I have already thought this through. I have collected some nos relays that will look like they belong on the car.

[DCurrent]

I would run a new wire (12gauge) from the battery side of the solenoid with an inline fuse to the in terminal of the head lamp switch.  that will safely put power to the switch and will be hot with ign off.

 

This is what I would prefer to do, but I'm having difficulty finding the power leg of the switch. I can only assume that the fuse is in between the power source and the switch itself.

[Plymouthy Adams]

you only need one relay....

[Don Coatney]

you only need one relay....

Headlights, horn (to replace the original 6V, heater motor, starter to replace the original 6V, etc.

[DCurrent]

you only need one relay....

I have one for the headlights and one for the horn. Metal cover relays are getting hard to find, especially those made in the states. I think the horns are wired direct to battery now since I have not found a relay between the button and horns. Not the perfect situation as they have a special button under the dash, but boy are they loud!! Love the sound of them.

[DCurrent]

After laying on my back most of the afternoon, and unwrapping wires from electrical tape, and trying to decipher which wire goes where, I think it is best to start the re-wiring process even though I really wasn't ready to do so. It's just too much of a mess to try and do it with not knowing where wires are coming from. Also many of the wires are just stripped of insulation that makes me uncomfortable.  

thanks for all the help!

[Don Coatney]

Battery disconnected?????

[_shel_ny]

 

This is what I would prefer to do, but I'm having difficulty finding the power leg of the switch. I can only assume that the fuse is in between the power source and the switch itself.

 

 

 

P15 diagram does not show the sw, so it doesn't help a lot.  This is a D25 and shows the sw wiring. I would think that you are correct that the fused connection would be the power.

 

This section of the schematic shows the leads out. 1st position:  park, tail, dash, lic lights. Second position: headlights (via the dimmer sw),tail, dash, lic lights.

[DCurrent]

yes I haven't seen any diagram that explains or pictures the p15 switch that I have. If anyone has a picture of a P15 headlight switch with markings I'd like to see it. Im going to have to pull the switch with the wiring attached if I can just to get an idea of what goes where. The problem is that the wiring is wrapped in electrical tape that makes it difficult to both trace the wiring and move things around. In addition to that the wiring has lost it's colored loom and they all look the same when bundled together.  

[De Soto Frank]

RE: Horn Wiring -

 

If your car still has the original trumpet(s), there should be a relay.  The power usually comes off the BAT(tery) terminal of the voltage regulator.

 

If you're running the original 6-volt horns on 12-volts, yeah, they'll be louder than hell... don't know if the double-voltage will harm them...

[Scruffy49]

This thread sure makes me glad I have a truck... panel light switch, parking light switch and headlight switch, but the floor mounted dimmer. ALL separate. Zero relays, everything is direct wired.

 

Metal bodied USA made relays? Easy... NAPA, Carquest, Federated and National Auto Parts, especially if you have a 12V conversion. 1960s or 70s Mopar and Fomoco products, big rigs through at least the mid 1990s.Awful high number of professional truckers still insist on the old style relays, don't trut the resin cased imported ones.

[oldodge41]

Edited. The diagram I was posting was not P15.

Edited August 18, 2013 by oldodge41

[DJ194950]

Where did you get this wireing diagram? Not saying anything.

It's the only p-15 wiring diagram that I've seen that did not have a horn relay. Obviously the pic does show that , but?  I must say that I only have 2 but I don't think that a wiring running throught the steer column and a brass contact and spring would be the best place to have a heavy amp load on the contacts inside the drivers area.

 

When I changed my 50 Ply. to 12 volt, the horn(s) would not work on any regular basis until- I added new Bosch type 12 v.relay, Increased the wire size to the dual horns, added a separate ground wire steerbox to frame and retuned both horn adjustments!

 

Replace all that old wireing now or just continue having one problem after another electrically, or making Lots of smoke!

 

Best to ya,

 

Doug

[DCurrent]

I dove into the wiring issue today. Wow! what a mess! I started with removing the wiring in the truck working my way forward. I am 99.9% positive I found the short issue the car was experiencing. The wires that cross over to supply lights to the right side were bare in spots and melted and burnt. There were so many wires cut, spliced, and re-spliced it was ridicules. The decision to replace all the light wiring was the right decision even thought I wasn't ready to do so. In this whole exercise of removing the wires deciphering some of them didn't prove to be so difficult after removing wires that didn't belong. I have a few questions though.

 

First, was the light on the trunk used as a third brake light, or as a running light? The bulb used only has one filament so I assume it could only be used for one purpose.

 

Secondly, the running lights up front only have one filament. I plan to use these as turn signals. The factory had turn signals as an option. if these are wired correctly should they operate as a turn signal and running lights using one filament, or do I need to find a contact that will accept a two filament bulb? If Ido need to find a contact to fit into the socket where can I find a couple?

 

Thanks   

[_shel_ny]

Front lights were not done as running lights. They were parking lights only.

 

High rear, brake only. To make it brighter some have installed a 2 filament bulb with the contacts soldered together

 

Help rack at the parts store should have 2 contact pigtail for the front.

Edited September 1, 2013 by shel_bizzy_48

[Young Ed]

When I redid mine I did as Shel mentioned. New pigtails in the front to make them dual filament. Also did the same with the rears. I also did the dual filament bulb soldered together trick for the center light. When it was new it was the only brake light. Mine is now a third brake light more like a modern car. Safer and I got tired of people telling me my brake lights were out.

[Don Coatney]

Trunk light is a brake light only and the only brake light in a factory wired car. You can add a dual filiment socket to the brake light, rear fender lights, and front parking lights and wire it the same as a modern car where all lights are on when the headlights are on, brake lights light all 3 rear lights, and turn signals work on all 4 corners. Before I upgraded to LED's I modified the bulb socket for dual filiment bulbs as pictured. I soldered the new socket to the mount.

 

 

Another option yoou might consider is switching all 3 rear lights to LED's as you are already running on 12 volts.