19fortybizcoupe Posted May 22, 2012 Report Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Been doing alot of research on trans upgrades on these cars. I wound up using Paul Curtis's kit for the S-10 T-5 trans swap..i just finished the install and am extremely happy with the end result. So I thought I would share.. Here is a pic of my car and the Paul Curtis kit and the 1985 S-10 5speed trans..Paul's kit utilizes all the factory Plymouth clutch parts except for the clutch disc. So I was able to leave the stock linkage, bell housing ,and everything.. Edited May 22, 2012 by 19fortybizcoupe Quote
19fortybizcoupe Posted May 22, 2012 Author Report Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) The only modifications needed is you have to have the S-10 throw out bearing collar and Plymouth throw out bearing sleeve machined to slide over each other. Paul has other options for this solution, but I chose this one. I had my local machinist do it, but many of you may have your own means for it..The other mod is you have to cut a small notch out of the passenger side bell housing rubber mount for the adapter plate to have clearance.. Edited May 22, 2012 by 19fortybizcoupe Quote
19fortybizcoupe Posted May 22, 2012 Author Report Posted May 22, 2012 The shifter location is a great fit for my application cause I'm a very tall man at 6' 6" so the seat is all the way back..However I will be "re-moulding" the shifter to give myself some more leg/knee room. here is a quick video of the test drive.. One other note on this upgrade in my application..I also installed a 1967 Dodge Coronet rear end at the same time. So keep in mind what ever your application is check and research your gear ratios and you will have to have a drive line made. All I provided to the drive line shop was the S-10 slip yoke from the wrecking yard that I got at the time of the trans.. Quote
40P10touring sedan Posted May 22, 2012 Report Posted May 22, 2012 This looks so very familiar...but I like it!!!!!!!! Perhaps next up you could/would install one of these- Quote
Mark D Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Nice job - I'm envious of the two extra gears... Quote
BeBop138 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Welcome to the T-5 club---nice work and the overdrive is so nice for cruzin those highway speeds. I used the Wilcap adapter and couldn`t be happier with the results. Quote
Don Coatney Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 ..I also installed a 1967 Dodge Coronet rear end at the same time. So keep in mind what ever your application is check and research your gear ratios .. What differential ratio did you choose? Quote
19fortybizcoupe Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Posted May 23, 2012 The rear end is the 2:94 ratio..Which with stock tires would not have worked, But since Im so low im running 26" tires..So its seems to be a great combo for me. The t-5 is tag#1352-145 which is 1st: 3.78, 2nd: 2.18, 3rd: 1.42, 4th: 1.10, and 5th: 0.72 Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 actually in first you have a marked improvement in ratio over the stock transmission and 3.9 rear ratio..first and second S10 is appears closer to a wide ratio transmission as the gears in the car for first is 2.95 and 1.94 for second and is what I have stated earlier about using the wide ratio tranny giving you the umph needed to get rolling without feather the clutch at higher rpm on takeoff The Stats: T5 first 3.76 with 2.94 gear overall 11.05 stock is 10.023 with 3.9 rear gear T5 second 2.18 with 2.94 gear overall is 6.41 stock is 7.137 bit of a loss and big drop in rpm between shifts..of course though you make it up a bit in third as the T5 is still multiplying a bit and yields a 4.17 overall with the 2.94 verse 3.9 in stock from. Then the extra gears kick in lowering the ratio to 1.1 or 2.94 in fourth and then 2.11 in OD.. Now we know you have the smaller tires which effective brings your rpm's back up which you probably need when in high and OD..but my question to you, what is the actual rpm you are turning while in OD pushing the 2.94 say at 70MPH...is your flattie running strong with reserved power (ability to continue pull) in OD? Reason I ask is because I have paper raced these ratio's for a very similar build I have in works and have found mine to be just below max torque in OD which is fine as I am pushing with the V6 and I also have the 2.94 rear gear but not driven on the road at this time..I have a .02 lower OD and of course a little more torque with the V6 and a few ponies in reserve to push higher to the max HP at its stated RPM.. we all know the flattie makes it 172 ft lb of torque at 1200 rpm and that is only 1/3 of the rpm of the max hp rating of 95 at 3600 rpm..torque does the work at an economical rpm whereas anything above the torque range you need HP which is greater rpm, more fuel consuption and greater wear due to faster speed of reciprocating parts..I am building for economy and yet still keeping it able to do the work at the same time with little trade off as possible. Quote
meadowbrook Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 I read the 230 produces 103 HP and 190 Torque, in 1950. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 and when did the 40 Plymouth get a 230?...I am basing my data on stock engine and did give him the benefit of the doubt by quoting actual 218 engine data instead of the original 201 he would have had as stock..the 230 did not become stock in the Plymouth till mid-production of the 54 model year..NOW IT IS POSSIBLE the man has a 230 in his coupe..but this thread makes no mention of that fact...and I asure you the poines at the torque ban are not that significant both are based on 1200 rpm for ft lb and 3600 for max HP...except that the stock 201 will be 84 ponies and the max torque some 154 ft lb making for certain a noticable power difference..I apologize if he has a 230 but again it is not stated in this thread so like most threads..limited data in get limited answers out.. Quote
Young Ed Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Tim wanna run those numbers again with a 218 and a 3.54 or 3.73 diff? Thats my target range. I don't know that the 3 spd truck trans has the same ratios as the cars for that comparison though I suspect they are close. Quote
greg g Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Does any one have reference to gear ratios for the standar equipmet car three speed across the production years??? I know there were some different 2nd gear ratios early in the 40's, but was there any veriance through the later years??? I have a trans out of a 56 Plymouth and wondered if the ratios may hace changed as torwue and HP went up and rear ends changed. I am thinking of switching to a modern rear end with a 3.30 to 3.7 neighborhood gear set and wondered it if might be worth puting the later trans in as well. Quote
55 Fargo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Does any one have reference to gear ratios for the standar equipmet car three speed across the production years??? I know there were some different 2nd gear ratios early in the 40's, but was there any veriance through the later years??? I have a trans out of a 56 Plymouth and wondered if the ratios may hace changed as torwue and HP went up and rear ends changed. I am thinking of switching to a modern rear end with a 3.30 to 3.7 neighborhood gear set and wondered it if might be worth puting the later trans in as well. Greg, I know the 51, 3 speed in my 47 Chrysler, allows me to get to about 25-30 mph, before I have to shift, that is with a 3.73 rearend. I think you would enjoy the later model diff say a Mopar 8 1/4, with 3.23 ratio. Might be better to keep the older trans with that set-up, for better boost on take off into 2nd and 3rd. I do have some type of later model 3 speed trans here, it also has a reverse light switch on it, which would be kinda handy.... Quote
19fortybizcoupe Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Posted May 23, 2012 Guys I'm sorry, I didn't intend on starting a storm here..I will get further data for you guys. I've been so excited on just getting it back on the road and having it drive so nice..I will have to use my garman gps unit for my speed and my engine analyser for RPM's seeings how my speedo does not work nor do I have a tachometer in the car..but these are numbers that would be helpfull to know. So this weekend i will try and collect that data and post it here..I will say this..The car takes off from a stop great. No lugging or high rpm's needed..And just for kicks I put it into 5th gear at surface street speeds. Aprox 35mph and though it was lugging it still was able to accelerate..you can see in the video I posted.. O' and for the earlier question, to my knowledge my car has a 201 engine in it. Engine code starts with p10 Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Ed..read again..the true truck tranny has lower ratio than the car tranny...if you were to tell me what tag number is on your tranny I will be glad to crunch the number and give you the comparable to stock..I have said it before and continue to believe the truck wide ratio will allow you to go to the 3.23 with zero trade off in performance in first and second compared to a car ratio tranny with 3.55 gears and as a plus yield added crusie range and better economy on top end.... Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Does any one have reference to gear ratios for the standar equipmet car three speed across the production years??? I know there were some different 2nd gear ratios early in the 40's, but was there any veriance through the later years??? I have a trans out of a 56 Plymouth and wondered if the ratios may hace changed as torwue and HP went up and rear ends changed. I am thinking of switching to a modern rear end with a 3.30 to 3.7 neighborhood gear set and wondered it if might be worth puting the later trans in as well. all three speed trannies, Plymouth 46-54 were: 1st....2.57 2nd...1.83 3rd...1.0 reverse 3.48 Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Guys I'm sorry, I didn't intend on starting a storm here..I will get further data for you guys. I've been so excited on just getting it back on the road and having it drive so nice..I will have to use my garman gps unit for my speed and my engine analyser for RPM's seeings how my speedo does not work nor do I have a tachometer in the car..but these are numbers that would be helpfull to know. So this weekend i will try and collect that data and post it here..I will say this..The car takes off from a stop great. No lugging or high rpm's needed..And just for kicks I put it into 5th gear at surface street speeds. Aprox 35mph and though it was lugging it still was able to accelerate..you can see in the video I posted..O' and for the earlier question, to my knowledge my car has a 201 engine in it. Engine code starts with p10 I for one am very interested in the specs of the tranny install in regard to rpm and speeds..thanks in advance for taking the time to retrieve this data for us.. Quote
Young Ed Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Ed..read again..the true truck tranny has lower ratio than the car tranny...if you were to tell me what tag number is on your tranny I will be glad to crunch the number and give you the comparable to stock..I have said it before and continue to believe the truck wide ratio will allow you to go to the 3.23 with zero trade off in performance in first and second compared to a car ratio tranny with 3.55 gears and as a plus yield added crusie range and better economy on top end.... I was talking 3speed mopar truck tranny that I'll be replacing with the T5. Here is the info off my T5 Ratios for 1352-145 = 1st=3.76:1, 2nd=2.18:1, 3rd=1.42:1, 4th=1:1, and 5th=0.72:1. Edit-this is the same as the original poster. So if my truck 3spd has the same ratios as a car the comparison will be the same. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 just for you Ed..if you find the actual ratios for the truck 3 speed..let me know.. Borg Warner T5 (later named Tremec) Ratios for 1352-145 = 1st=3.76:1, 2nd=2.18:1, 3rd=1.42:1, 4th=1:1, and 5th=0.72:1. 3.54 rear gear 1st 13.31; 2nd 7.71; 3rd 5.02; 4th 3.54 OD 2.54 stock based on car gears...1st 9.098; 2nd 6.48; 3rd 3.54; reverse 12.32 3.73 rear gear 1st 14.02; 2nd 7.88; 3rd 5.29; 4th 3.73 OD 2.68 stock based on car gears...1st 9.59; 2nd 6.83; 3rd 3.73; reverse 12.98 Quote
greg g Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Mine other one is a 56 so that why I wondered if there was any difference in the later ones. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Greg, my books don't go higher that the 54 but along with the early Plymouths and the "fast" second..the later high drive trannies also had taller gears..I did not mention these in my earlier post as it really is generally not collectively grouped on the average with the common three speed.. Quote
40P10touring sedan Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Guys I'm sorry, I didn't intend on starting a storm here..I will get further data for you guys. I've been so excited on just getting it back on the road and having it drive so nice..I will have to use my garman gps unit for my speed and my engine analyser for RPM's seeings how my speedo does not work nor do I have a tachometer in the car..but these are numbers that would be helpfull to know. So this weekend i will try and collect that data and post it here..I will say this..The car takes off from a stop great. No lugging or high rpm's needed..And just for kicks I put it into 5th gear at surface street speeds. Aprox 35mph and though it was lugging it still was able to accelerate..you can see in the video I posted..O' and for the earlier question, to my knowledge my car has a 201 engine in it. Engine code starts with p10 See what ya started...hehehe. This means you need to get that old girl out on some highway speeds and report back! BTW...yes, 40 plys had 201s factory...this of course opens up for an after the fact motor replacement like mine has{48 dated block}...I could very well have a 218 now in mine...I'm still going to the 265 anyway! As an after thought, can you move your seat back any more...even relocate new holes to do so? Quote
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