Restoration Guidelines/Principles

[Jim Shepard]

I'm curious about what guiding principles folks have when doing a restoration. I got to thinking about this the other day as I was posting on the car side relative to a discussion on dual carbs. As an example (and to kick off the discussion), here's what guides me in anything I do with my B2B:

As had been suggested by a member, when trying to figure out the linkage on my factory 2BB setup, the simplest would have been going with a complete Lokaror other "cable" type fix. I'd probably still have to fabricate the brackets on the engine and/or carb. I did consider this, but the bigger issue for me is what I consider my "guiding principle" approach to anything I do with this truck. Foremost is my desire to keep it as stock as possible. If I do something non-stock, I try and do it as "stock-looking" as I can. Some things I've done (3-pt seat belts and radial tires) that are not stock or "stock-looking" I've done for what I consider to be over-riding safety reasons. Other modifications, such as this carb setup and the Fenton cast iron headers, while not stock and not "stock-looking", are things that could have been done back in the '50's with then-available materials. So, I guess my principle is this: If I'm some kid sittin' back in 1959 with this truck, what would be able to do and still maintaine a stock-looking vehicle, but maybe soup it up a little? I would have been able to put a factory 2bb on it; cast iron Fentons; dual Smitty's; 12V generator, and the like. That's what basically guides my approach to any modifications. How 'bout it? What guides you folks? Remember - no critics here.

[ggdad1951]

I'm TRYING to do a thourogh RESTORATION. Now, I know the following on my truck are not restoration level: radial tires and non stock head bolts. Beyond that I'm trying to find NOS parts that can either be restored to use or use as is. If I need to fab something up, I do my dangest to make it as original as I can. My restoration has led me down lots of paths of doing things that have NOT been easy or cheap.

For examples:

my VR rebuild to electronic constituted a COMPLETE tear down and refurb of the parts so when reassembled it LOOKS 100% new from 1951

several parts that were CAD plated are now SS with a light blast on them to look CAD

expensive wiring harnesses

CAD plating of LOTS of parts

and purchase of NOS parts to BE stock (heater box control valve cost $275 by itself) not including the restoration of the heater box and the air valve and air inlet

having new geni and starter tags MADE and restamping them with the proper sized punch set

figuring out how to properly set split rivets

But I've learned a ton and hope that some of my pain helps others in their endevours. The big smile I will have for my first drive won't be a bad reward either!

Edited February 21, 2012 by ggdad1951

[Todd B]

when my dad was alive we had several talks about this. He wanted me to be completely original and that I "Would ruin the value" of the truck by putting chrome wheels or not a stock color. I strongly beleive you have to do what you want, and in most cases keep the wife happy too. I enjoy the original look and the amount of work and money it takes to do that. However, if I had a choice I would rather have a fast truck that stands out of the crowd. To answer Jim's question, what guides me? When you spend 4 hours cleaning and go out for dinner and the people look and say, wow that is nice. Its all worth it to me.

Todd B

[TodFitch]

I believe the original meaning of the word restoration was to return something to a prior condition or state. So if you have a car built in 1946 that was altered over the years you could pick a year, say 1963, and restore the car to the condition it was in that year.

The hard core automotive restoration community has pretty much settled on the condition of the vehicle as it left the factory. Largely this is due to issues in documenting the condition of the car at any other time in its life. For example look to the antenna location thread going on now, apparently different dealers installed radios in slightly different ways, so documenting how the vehicle came from the dealer isn't always possible.

For myself, I've set an artificial target for myself as "how the car might have looked when it was 3 to 7 years old if it had been reasonably well maintained." Except I violate that with upgrades where I feel it makes sense to me if the upgrades can be removed without damage. For me, that includes seat belts, quartz-halogen headlights and a voltage regulator.

My big hang up is language: Adding equipment that was never there or swapping out the drive train for something newer is not "restoration". You could call it "improving" or "modifying" but please don't call it "restoring". Its not your car I care about, its the language.

The final thing is that the vehicle is yours. Your state probably cares that it is reasonably safe to drive and may have periodic inspections to enforce that. Other than that, it is yours to do with as you please. But don't expect clubs filled with people who want "factory restorations" to be friendly to your bringing a chopped/channeled/frenched/raked/re-engined/whatever car to their events. Or, for that matter, bringing you factory original car to a rodding convention. Seems like there are rod clubs around here that are even more snooty than most clubs dedicated to restoration. Fortunately, most people in most clubs are fairly tolerant.

[ggdad1951]

My big hang up is language: Adding equipment that was never there or swapping out the drive train for something newer is not "restoration". You could call it "improving" or "modifying" but please don't call it "restoring". Its not your car I care about, its the language.

do you mean adding things that were not "off the line" on the vehicle? Or is addign NOS or restored options available still ok? Lord knows if I didn't add a few things on mine, it'd be VERY bare!

[Young Ed]

I think he means putting a hemi and an automatic in and calling it restored. My truck is by no means restored but I enjoy its 218 and 3spd floor shift tranny just the same. And I occasionally use it to move something which makes it all the better. My plymouth and truck I plan to keep basically stock. My 40 plymouth pickup project I'll be doing along the lines of the original poster. Maybe a little more custom like modern seats. It will have a 5spd that will hopefully only be seen from underneath.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Young Ed

[HanksB3B]

I have to think about it off-line a little and will edit and add to my post as I go:

The theme I started with was that "I wanted a brand new old truck, as if it had just come off the assembly Line".

For the most part this is what I feel I've accomplished, but in some cases "missed the boat" and in other cases decided otherwise. The most boring, snobby and awful car show we entered the truck in was a car museum show in El Segundo Ca. Our truck got no notice because it wasn't a 57 Chevy or a Shelby Mustang. The show was definately not Concours caliber, nor do I think any of the judges would have noticed that I chose to use pop-rivets in lieu of spiral tacks to secure my cowl lacing and this change, made for the sake of practicality, is a good place for me to start.

Items Not Stock and why:

1. Pop Rivets: My Cowl Lacing is secured with pop rivets because the tapered spiral nails are prone to coming out. They may have been good to go from the factory, but as we all know eventually the cloth rotted and we replaced ours re-using the spiral tacks. On my truck closing the hood on a disengaged section caused the tack to leave a deep scratch on my first paint job 20 years ago. An additional hole was added at the crown of the radius because experience showed that the cowl lacing would slip off here (and look like someone at the factory should have thought this out more carefully).

2. My Wheels: I have two in Storage (wish I had three more and hope to "do-the-right-thing by them") but hubcaps are a treasure and I don't have any. From a practical standpoint, the old steel white 70's wheels got thrown into the mix of the truckload of parts I had sandblasted and powdercoated and at $20/wheel made financial sense to me at the time. They are shod with Michelin 235/75/R5. I've gotten complements from people who don't know any better, but they ride well and for now are fine.

3. My Engine: Why did I paint it "Ford" Blue? Because I didn't know any better and had never heard of Don Bunn. Did I like John-T 53's "Crate Engine" all done up in silver and black?, you betcha, but do I think silver is a practical color?, not even. Would I re-do my engine in silver next time?, probably.

4. Fasteners: 20 years ago I could bring a one gallon bucket of bolts and have them cad plated for $40 combined with window regulators, and door mechanisms, etc I'd be paying $80 and that would probably have included my rusty ol' horn turning into a golden shiny brand new looking part. Today that same bucket of bolts $140 and as you know some of them don't come back looking so great and over the years metal fatigue make them a questionable choice for re-use. Stainless Steel, I love the stuff like I love my door handles. Did I paint over it? No I think it looks great, and couldn't care less about a stuffy old judge at a stuffy old car show. Am I happy with my "restored" mirror arms?, would I do it differently next time? no.

5. Interior: My interior is totally stock with one small exception. The push-in-clips that for some reason were only available in brown (I had to paint mine black) used for holding the cardboard interior in were in my mind unforgiving. Sure good enough to leave the factory and are historically correct, but would be very difficult, if not impossible to remove without damaging the carboard. So I sinned and decided to use plastic wallboard fasteners secured into the inner cab sheet metal and secured the cardboard with SS oval head screws seated in SS finishing caps. I think it looks great.

6. Paint: I removed and didn't paint my Paint Code Tag. After my truck was painted I re-attached it to the firewall to remind me of the historically correct color.

7. Running Boards: Mine aren't shiny and slippery. I had them non-slip black powder coated.

That's all I can think of for now,

Hank

Edited February 23, 2012 by HanksB3B

[Dave72dt]

I'm pretty much in line with Tod's definition although I use the term resurection. Most of our trucks are not what anyone would call numbers matching and most have been altered from the factory version. How many are running dual filament bulbs in their parking lights and taillights. Anybody found duplicate rivets for the front fender upper rear mount and had them set as the factory would have? How many have hunted down every option listed as originally available on their truck and installed them. A lot of trucks would have had some of the options but very few would have had all. Just a plain, clean solid representation of an original as the factory may have produced it. It also needs to run as well and as cleanly as when new and it can't be dripping fluids out of it either. Era correct also works.

[TodFitch]

do you mean adding things that were not "off the line" on the vehicle? Or is adding NOS or restored options available still ok? Lord knows if I didn't add a few things on mine, it'd be VERY bare!

"Restored" ==> "Returned to a previous condition."

Did the vehicle previously have those options or period accessories? If yes, then you are restoring it to a previous state. If no then you are, like me, altering the car to fit your personal preferences.

Some alterations are acceptable to "purist" clubs. Others are not. All up to you how much attention you want to pay to other people's rules.

[seabee1950]

First and formost is we are building these cars and trucks for our own fun then if some one see's it and pops the hood and says man that don't look stock I would have to say sorry but its not your call as I would be slaming his fingers in the hood

I was young and I would hang out with the guys that were older then me and the car's they had were built from cars out of a salvage yard.

If we had been rich and had the funds the sky would of been the limit.

I'm sure that a hot rod kid would have raced his Dad's farm truck (and did) and even hopped it up.

As for me and my old car I want it stock but the though of putting safety items on and up dating to 12 V seems like the thing to do,and if others don't see it that way then they can build there own.

I love playing with these old cars.

Can Do--Have Done

[Don Coatney]

My big hang up is language: Adding equipment that was never there or swapping out the drive train for something newer is not "restoration". You could call it "improving" or "modifying" but please don't call it "restoring". Its not your car I care about, its the language.

I am in 100% agreement with the language issue. Many times I have had folks ask me if I restored my car. I put on my best smiley face, try to be nice, and tell them that my car is not restored as it has been modified in several ways. I dont know that I have ever seen a car that is truly "restored".

The use of restored extends way beyond the automotive business/hobby. There are hundreds of construction companies that advertise home restoration after insurance claim damage. How can a home be restored with new flooring, a new roof, new kitchen cupboards etc?

[ggdad1951]

hmm, well to me "restoration" has multi levels/meanings. I'm "restoring" my truck, but adding features and options that are year/model specific to my truck. While not a restoration to build card level, I don't think adding proper authentic features changes it from a restoration to something else.

[48Dodger]

Cuz I know you Jim, I think you're struggling with the classic question: Over the counter vs. digging through every junk yard on the planet to keep things "real"....

Having talked with you about this issue over the years...I believe you are in the "keep it real" crowd. BUT...you wish you could jump to the other side without the guilt. I think a lot of classic truck builders do this often without the guilt. Your truck is AMAZING.....and sometimes feel you have that painted into the corner feeling about any changes you want to make. Why do I think this???? Cuz you want to build a Rat Rod too...lol. Why??...cuz I bet you want to enjoy the going back and forth without the guilt. lol.

I say enjoy the guilt and keep doing what you do. Results speak for themselves.

48D

Edited February 22, 2012 by 48dodger

[Dave72dt]

Jim, I'd say you restored it to an era. I could easily see a truck souped to that level in 1959. Mark, I'd say yours is being restored to a reasonable representation of how it could have come from the factory. I'd call them both restorations. Mine's not. Even when finished, it won't be. It'll look good and drive well but will never assume to be restored.

[Young Ed]

I am in 100% agreement with the language issue. Many times I have had folks ask me if I restored my car. I put on my best smiley face, try to be nice, and tell them that my car is not restored as it has been modified in several ways. I dont know that I have ever seen a car that is truly "restored".

The use of restored extends way beyond the automotive business/hobby. There are hundreds of construction companies that advertise home restoration after insurance claim damage. How can a home be restored with new flooring, a new roof, new kitchen cupboards etc?

I believe they are returning it to its previous condition.

[Bradley S.]

Restore = how it left the factory or dealer. For me that means no seat belts and no turn signals since mine had neither when it left the dealer.

[HanksB3B]

Restore = how it left the factory or dealer. For me that means no seat belts and no turn signals since mine had neither when it left the dealer.

Expect your left arm to freeze and crack off signaling for left turns, next Fox Lake cold winter after you finish your truck.

Hank

[sniggle_t]

Restore - Push it back into the garage for an extended period of time

I was never in the restore crowd. I modified every vehicle I ever owned, some more than others. I call them resto-mods. When I got my '51, I planned to flip it but the darn thing grew on m before I could sell it. This is the first vehicle I plan to bring back to stock. Notice I didn't say restore. I didn't use that term because I am sure some of what I do will not be original as the truck was when it was new. I'll have to use other types of fasteners in some places, replace parts with aftermarket pieces that are close but not NOS, and there is no way I'm using lacquer paint. If I finish this truck it will be similar to what Mark is doing with his.

Scott

[TodFitch]

Expect your left arm to freeze and crack off signaling for left turns, next Fox Lake cold winter after you finish your truck.

Hank

Now I know why the car gets so cold when I signal a turn. I just thought there was something wrong with the heater.

[Bradley S.]

Hank;

Boy howdy! Reckon most folk here will mistake a right turn hand sign for the bird.