Andydodge Posted January 1, 2012 Report Posted January 1, 2012 I have a BEST brand gasket set # RS 523 S(this "S" stands for "Steel" as this set has a steel head gasket which doesn't react with the Edgy alloy head).......to suit a stock cast iron head just order RS 523........this gasket set had both types of neoprene seal.......andyd Quote
ptwothree Posted January 2, 2012 Report Posted January 2, 2012 It looks to me that if you have a bolt on rear main seal,be it rope or neoprene, you can use the 6164. If you have a later engine, then the 3675 is the way to go as they got away from the bolt on seal to a more modern slip in type so the rope seals won't even fit these motors. I'd just like to find out which works better: the bolt on neoprene or the bolt in rope.....anybody?? Quote
Don Coatney Posted January 2, 2012 Report Posted January 2, 2012 And no, it isn't 2.00 a quart. Jon I did a quick on line search and found this. Unless there is something wrong with my math this sure looks like two bucks a quart to me. Walmart SuperTech 10W30 Motor Oil, 5-Quart $10.00 Quote
fedoragent Posted January 2, 2012 Report Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I did a quick on line search and found this. Unless there is something wrong with my math this sure looks like two bucks a quart to me.Walmart SuperTech 10W30 Motor Oil, 5-Quart $10.00 Don, Understood as a miscom. However Ive been buying Pennzoil and that isnt 2.00. Jon Edited January 2, 2012 by fedoragent Quote
fedoragent Posted January 3, 2012 Report Posted January 3, 2012 It looks to me that if you have a bolt on rear main seal,be it rope or neoprene, you can use the 6164. If you have a later engine, then the 3675 is the way to go as they got away from the bolt on seal to a more modern slip in type so the rope seals won't even fit these motors.I'd just like to find out which works better: the bolt on neoprene or the bolt in rope.....anybody?? I would like to know as well. I know I have a 218 and not a 230, so I figure it would be something like this. What do you gents think: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Plymouth-201-218-230-Rear-Main-Seal-BOLT-34-59-/170625128103?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item27ba0cd6a7#ht_500wt_1066 OR http://napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=FPGBS3141_0147568091&An=599001+101947+50056+2056061 Personally, I figure not to use the rope one... Jon Quote
fatFreddie Posted January 5, 2012 Report Posted January 5, 2012 Rebuilt hundreds of MoPar engines and not one leaked. The seal is not the problem. The sealing surface is. Replace a seal without fixing the sealing surface will lead to a failure of the seal in a short time. Now the fix of the sealing surface can be as simple as some crocus cloth to smoth out the surface, or can be as major as hard chrome and re- machining, or a SPEEDI SLEEVE. Now there could be another cause of a leak and it is NOT the seals fault. An OUT OF BALANCE condition can lead to leakage too. Basically the shaft wobbles and lets a gap form letting fluid pass. This is most common in WATER PUMPS. Quote
fatFreddie Posted January 5, 2012 Report Posted January 5, 2012 First are you sure it is the main seal? In my shop I would always DYE TEST first to see exactly were the leakage was originating from. A UV dye is added to the oil and then the customer would drive the car for a few days. Using a UV light the trail of leakage can be pin pointed. Now in my experience with the old FLH6 engines what looked to be a main seal leak actually turned out to be a WELCH PLUG leak. There is a welch plug in the rear of the engine at the cam shaft that always seems to develop a leak as this is the point of highest oil pressure in those engines. I would check there too but it is a pain as you have to remove the BELL HOUSING to get to it. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 You say oil pressure against that rear camshaft welch plug is causing it to leak and that is a MoPar 6 flathead oil leak problem? That would be costly to check! Quote
fatFreddie Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 Let me clarify as I see the miss on my part...You say oil pressure against that rear camshaft welch plug is causing it to leak and that is a MoPar 6 flathead oil leak problem? YES that is what I am saying. That would be costly to check! That is why you use a UV dye as I beleive it is about 20 bucks for the dye kit. Now my miss is in this statement...I would check there too but it is a pain as you have to remove the BELL HOUSING to get to it. ...I should have stated it this way.... it is a pain to REPLACE.... as you have to remove the BELL HOUSING to get to it. Hope that clears things. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 We might have an issue here. Camshaft rear welch plugs don't leak on the 218/230 because of engine oil pressure. There cannot be oil pressure against the rear cam plug because of this good sized drain hole. This picture is of a super high mileage junk motor I just knocked the soft plug out of to show this drain hole. Quote
fatFreddie Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 Now were is the issue? You do not think that entire cavity is full of oil and under pressure? Now look at the rear main cap. It has a pretty large drain hole too. So it should NOT leak? Now my bathroom sink has a large drain too but the bowl does fill when I turn the water on. Point is a drain never removes the water as fast as a faucet under pressure fills the bowl. Same is true with oil in an engine. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 Sorry, I must disagree. There is no high pressure against the rear main seal and especially not enough pressure if any to cause a leak at the rear cam plug if it is in good condition and installed correctly. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 unlike modern engines I think you will find the flatheads rear camshaft support does NOT have a replacable bearing insert like the front three..however it does get lube oil from the pressurized oil sysyem..possible to hve a leak here..but I have never seen one leak..on any engine except the OHC engines and their seals.. Quote
fatFreddie Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 Yep guess you guys are right as you are the ZEN MMASTERS and I am just a mechanic with 42 years experience working on these engines. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) I once sent a straight 8 Chrysler to have all the machine work done. Got it back to assemble it and was trying to get the camshaft in the # 6 rear cam bore. It wouldn't go in. The machine shop tried to remove the rear cam bearing that isn't a bearing but a machined in the block bearing-same as the 218/230 engines. I took it back and made them take care of it! I think it's a top priority to carefully watch what you're doing and check the work you do and others work too if you can! Block cleaning before and after machine work is a major problem as it seems shops sometimes are lacking in making sure all passages and machined surfaces are 100% spotless from remaining hardened oil sludge/coolant passage sludge and microscopic metal filings from machine work. Edited March 10, 2012 by Dodgeb4ya Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 "Zen Master" just means the poster has way too much time to post a lot of BS! Quote
fatFreddie Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 I have been watching this board for several years now and I decided to join and post to help out. I see a lot of mis-information out there and I just wanted to clear some of it up. Now this thread started with a question on oil seals and replacement. I just offered a flow chart to help in identifying a possible source of a leak which is in the same area as the seal in question and which I have found in my many years working on these engines to be a true source of a leak. To many seals are replaced that are later found out to be good and not the root of the problem, that is why they make UV dye. Now it seems to me that there are four or five members of this board that are, lets just say to be nice, aurgumentive. Now do not get me wrong, it is great to see enthusiasm in the subject complete with pictures, but it would be more impressive if that picture was taken of a running engine. I just find it laughable as in 1953 a change was made to the rear main seal AND Chrysler was feeding a TORQUE CONVERTOR off the same oil galley that supplies the rear cam bearing. Just a few points. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 Welcome aboard fatFreddie- no hard feelings from me! You have posted some good advice. Wow you must be really old! 42 years of turning wrenches! Just kidding;) Quote
Don G 1947 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 And, I'd like to hear opinions on which seal works better...neoprene or rope. Neopreme for sure! Rope can be a real pain to do correctly. Don Quote
Andydodge Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 Good to have a mechanic on board, however the question was regarding the REAR main seal and as it has a rather large flange that the flywheel bolts onto, the use of a speedie sleeve would not work as it cannot be installed on the rear..........hardchroming and/ or dressing the journal would certainly work and/or help, but a speedie sleeve, nope.........at least not what I've seen.........andyd Quote
Alshere59 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) I wonder if there is any value in using the opposite of what you took out. I would think that rope would have a different wear point/pattern as neoprene. Just how much of a change on the crank sealing surface each has I don't know but wouldn't there be differences. As stated you can not put a speedy sleeve on it and a new crank or any repairs beyound dressing it up is expensive. Besides I like to think my engine sweats after a work out more than leaks. Edited January 6, 2012 by Alshere59 Quote
T120 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 "Zen Master" just means the poster has way too much time to post a lot of BS! ...I resemble that remark...Nice to have you join the forum,fatFreddie. Quote
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