p24-1953 Posted November 7, 2009 Report Posted November 7, 2009 how do i get the other half out? Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 7, 2009 Report Posted November 7, 2009 as it is hollow alread..(bleed hole) just simply use an eaz-e-out Quote
Norm's Coupe Posted November 7, 2009 Report Posted November 7, 2009 I wouldn't bother getting the bleeder screw out myself. A new wheel cylinder is only about $30, and easily bought locally. I'd just buy a new one and chuck the old one. Quote
RobertKB Posted November 7, 2009 Report Posted November 7, 2009 Take Tim's advice first and if that does not work for you, then take Norm's. 30 bucks is 30 bucks. Quote
Norm's Coupe Posted November 7, 2009 Report Posted November 7, 2009 Robert, you are right, 30 bucks, is 30 bucks. But.......really, what will 30 bucks buy today. Not very much. You're lucky if it will buy you a pair of jeans. That why I said what I did. By spending the 30 bucks, I don't have to spend an hour or more removing the screw and cleaning up the wheel cylinder, then buying a rebuild kit to rebuild it with. Something that cheap and easy to buy just isn't worth my time to mess with. Now, if it's a part that isn't easily replaced, then I'll take the time to try and fix it, if I can. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 7, 2009 Report Posted November 7, 2009 some folks actually have the skill and the desire to fix things themselves...oft times it is not the money..it is in doing something yourself..to that end I don't think you grasp the fun part of the hobby..owning the car is only secondary to doing it yourself.. Quote
Norm's Coupe Posted November 7, 2009 Report Posted November 7, 2009 Tim, I'll grant you that. But........in the time it takes to fix something that cheap and easy to replace, you could be doing something else to the car that isn't so easy or cheap to fix. Or.........working on another hobby, or fixing something else not car or hobby related, like your house for example. We only have so much time to spend on a hobby. Can't spend all our time on the hobby, otherwise other things pile up on us. Then we end up spending more money to have someone else fix the non hobby things, than that wheel cylinder (for example) would cost. As an example, as soon as I post this, I have to go outside (it's about 65 degrees) and blow the leaves out to the street for the garbage men to pick up. Then I have to clean out the gutters before the snow flies, so that will be done today too. Now, if I spent that time trying to get a screw out of a $30 buck item, then had to hire someone to clean up the leaves and clean the gutters, it would cost me 50 bucks or more. Plus, I have other hobbies I like to do besides the car. We only have so much hobby time to spend, so I try to spend it wisely. Take yourself for example with all those cars you have to fix up. If you spent all your time on those, you would have had to hire people to put that new floor in your house, and the other things you've been working on in the house. For the work you've done on the house, you probably could have bought a car already done. By doing the house yourself, you've saved a lot more money than a contractor would have charged. So.........you car projects sit idle while you are doing that, and that's OK. Quote
jd52cranbrook Posted November 7, 2009 Report Posted November 7, 2009 some folks actually have the skill and the desire to fix things themselves...oft times it is not the money..it is in doing something yourself..to that end I don't think you grasp the fun part of the hobby..owning the car is only secondary to doing it yourself.. At the risk of Norm's scorn,, (joking) I tend to agree with this. I think there is a fine line between hobby and obsession though. I will put aside other projects probably better warranting my attention to get my car just right. To say I did it myself is the icing on the cake. Guess I'm one sick puppy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Quote
P-12 Tommy Posted November 7, 2009 Report Posted November 7, 2009 Like Tim said...........EZout Tom Quote
Norm's Coupe Posted November 7, 2009 Report Posted November 7, 2009 At the risk of Norm's scorn,, (joking)I tend to agree with this. I think there is a fine line between hobby and obsession though. I will put aside other projects probably better warranting my attention to get my car just right. To say I did it myself is the icing on the cake. Guess I'm one sick puppy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Not scorning anyone here. I enjoy doing things myself to, just to be able to say I did it myself. I did have friends in the know helping me with the rebuild on my engine. But.......I did do the whole interior on my coupe myself, including hand sewing the door panels together, and rebuilding the sun visor's and then hand sewing the covering for them. But........here again, that saved me a bundle to do it myself. If you have to remove a broken screw from a wheel cylinder though, you are going to get little metal slivers dropping into the hole where the bleeder screw is. So........to get those out, you are going to have to tear down the whole wheel cylinder. If you pull it apart to get those slivers out, you really shouldn't reuse the rubber parts again. So........that means buying a rebuild kit for about $10 to $15, plus buy the new bleeder screw. So.........really how much of a savings did you get by doing that? You really aren't saving $30 (cost of new cylinder), you're only saving about $15 tops. So.........for $15 I rather have a new wheel cylinder that I can just bolt onto the car. I can still say I fixed it myself too. But........to each their own. Just like the earlier post I made about saving time for other things. I said I had to go out and blow the leaves to the street for the garbage men to pick up. Went out to do that and decided that was a waste of time and energy, so never did blow them down to the street. That's because, if I had blown them to the street, I would still need to cut the grass due to all the rain we had the past few weeks. (Normally don't need to cut the grass here in November). So........I just got out the lawnmower, cut the grass and mulched the leaves all at once. Now there are no leaves to blow down to the street. Killed two birds with one stone that way.:cool: Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted November 8, 2009 Report Posted November 8, 2009 Nope all your doing is taking the shoes oft and replaceing the cyclinder. Easy opperation but also made easier if you have the proper tools to do this job. Spring spreader and something I do not know what they call it but it hold down the retain cap on the spring that holds the brake shoe in place. You can do all the above with pliers or vice gripes. Quote
alan32433 Posted November 8, 2009 Report Posted November 8, 2009 My two cents about e z out's. I've never successfully removed a broken off bolt with an e z out and I have tried many many times. Usually the bolt shears off because it's terribly frozen or rusted into place, and when that is the case, the ez out just won't get it out either. My horror story is that I had a manifold bolt broken in a head. I drilled the center of the bolt out and tried to use an ez out. I ended up breaking the ez out in the bored hole. Everyone knows once broken, you can't drill an ez out, so I ended up having to take the head to a machine shop to get it out. They charged me big bucks because the e z out is super hard get out. This is only the worst of my ez out stories, I've cussed that tool so many times I no longer even have any in my tool box. I suppose if you broke a bolt off from over torquing and it wasn't rusted in place, e z out would work pretty good. With my terrible ez out history, I would replace the wheel cylinder rather than risk another cursing session after trying to use an ez out. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to try, but my bet is that you will be cussing after an hour or so. Quote
JohnS48plm Posted November 8, 2009 Report Posted November 8, 2009 I'd try a left hand drill bit. Usually the bit will unscrew the screw if not try the e z out. JohnS Quote
Norm's Coupe Posted November 8, 2009 Report Posted November 8, 2009 My two cents about e z out's. I've never successfully removed a broken off bolt with an e z out and I have tried many many times. Usually the bolt shears off because it's terribly frozen or rusted into place, and when that is the case, the ez out just won't get it out either. My horror story is that I had a manifold bolt broken in a head. I drilled the center of the bolt out and tried to use an ez out. I ended up breaking the ez out in the bored hole. Everyone knows once broken, you can't drill an ez out, so I ended up having to take the head to a machine shop to get it out. They charged me big bucks because the e z out is super hard get out. This is only the worst of my ez out stories, I've cussed that tool so many times I no longer even have any in my tool box. I suppose if you broke a bolt off from over torquing and it wasn't rusted in place, e z out would work pretty good.With my terrible ez out history, I would replace the wheel cylinder rather than risk another cursing session after trying to use an ez out. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to try, but my bet is that you will be cussing after an hour or so. I couldn't have said it better about EZ Outs. I stopped using those years ago too, for the same reasons you mentioned. The left hand drill bits that JohnS mentioned though work very well for me. Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted November 8, 2009 Report Posted November 8, 2009 If your good at drilling than you can drill the center of the hyd fitting and then just leave enough on the outside of the hole(so you bugger up the treads) and then prick punch down the side of the fitting till you spit the unit in two. But you might just haft to buy a tap to clean up the treaded area. And yes easy-outs are not easy to use. Quote
Lou Earle Posted November 8, 2009 Report Posted November 8, 2009 What a great debate!! You know if anyone had just got an ez out the time spent reading and responding to a simple question and even easier answer we could have removed the thing 3 times!!!!!! Quote
alan32433 Posted November 8, 2009 Report Posted November 8, 2009 What a great debate!! You know if anyone had just got an ez out the time spent reading and responding to a simple question and even easier answer we could have removed the thing 3 times!!!!!! Totally correct Lou! I enjoy hearing all the varying perspectives so it's all good stuff. Besides, experience good or bad could be different, in the end, we might learn something. Quote
1949P17BC Posted November 8, 2009 Report Posted November 8, 2009 Send Norm your address so he can send you the $30.00 Quote
Phil Martin Posted November 8, 2009 Report Posted November 8, 2009 I drilled out a broken e z out one time with a carbide bit. Only problem was I couldn't center punch it and drilled just a little off center. Quote
JoelOkie Posted November 8, 2009 Report Posted November 8, 2009 I too have had some various success, (and aggravating faluires) usings e z outs. When they work at all, they usually work pretty well. The biggest thing is being able to see and get the drill and bit in where it needs to be. A straight head on shot where you can see what you are doing usually works pretty good, but I also like the drill out close and chase the threads methods, as it has worked well for me also. I hate drilling anything where the cuttings are going to get someplace I don't particularly want them. You need a magnetic drill bit that would hang on to everything as it cut through, and pull it all back out of the hole! At least you do have an easy, and moderately inexpensive back up plan here....if it don't work it's no big deal to go ahead and replace the wc......often if it doesn't work with an e z out, (in my experience), the remedy sure isn't THAT easy. Joel Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted November 8, 2009 Report Posted November 8, 2009 Before you go out and buy a rebuilt cylinder do try to drill out the old fitting. You might as well take that cylinder out and drill the remaining fitting out and see if you can do it without bugging up the hole. Do it in a vice and hay if you screw up so what? just go down and buy a new brake cylinder. And one thing about taking it out is that after you drill the hole out you can clean up the whole brake cylinder and replace the rubber goods. I would do this first and maybe save a few bucks. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted November 8, 2009 Report Posted November 8, 2009 If you are not experienced at drilling out bolts and other misc. you might fail at it. It takes mechanical knowledge/machining feel ....experience to do it . I have done thousands of brake jobs over the years and yes you can go to napa and buy the bleeder fitting if you get a good counter guy who knows even what a old P24 plymouth is! Then you might wait a day or more to get it probably- find out it is the wrong bleeder-then swear a lot.. You still have to remove the W/Cyl to drill it out. Heat might work alone with out even drilling it out if you have the correct fitting easi-out. You need to use an oxy-acetylene setup- heat the W/cyl quickly and correctly insert the easi-out and try to remove the remaining part of the bleeder. On my old cars with a known clean good W/cyl I'd do this but if it was old/ corroded one- just replace it and the rest of em- then be done with it! Bob Quote
p24-1953 Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Posted November 9, 2009 well i pulled the cylinder off today so i could get a easy out to it and i noticed that it was leaking under the boot, so i guess i mine-as-well buy a new one. Quote
John Reddie Posted November 9, 2009 Report Posted November 9, 2009 I have tried before to remove broken bleeder screws with no success. As was said earlier, these break because they are frozen from rust. I have found through my experience that a bolt that has snapped from over tightening can usually be extracted with an ez out because it was just put in but frozen, rusted bolts and screws are a different story. I would try the ez out first for what it's worth but in my opinion if you succeed, play the lottery afterwords:D. Whatever you end up doing, good luck to you. John R Quote
Normspeed Posted November 9, 2009 Report Posted November 9, 2009 Is this the thread about Norm's P15 not leaving his driveway? Quote
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