blueskies Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 ...coming from my left front wheel. The noise sounds like bending a beer can back and forth, and is cyclical with the revolution of the wheel. It only makes the noise when I turn to the right. No noise at all going straight or turning to the left. Or hitting bumps. Totally quiet unless I turn to the right. I'm sure it is the hub cap making the noise, but not sure why... The cap will only fit on the wheel in one spot, because of the tube valve stem I started to worry that the wheel was coming apart, or maybe the noise was actually the bearing. I pulled the wheel off and looked it over, and it seems to be fine. I also pulled the drum off, looked over the bearings, and repacked them. Inspected the hub cap too, and it looks good as new, no cracks in the tabs or grit/pebbles in the folds of the metal. Lug bolts are tight. Tires are newish radials with radial tubes inside. Put it all back together, and noise-noise-noise as the wheel goes around, only when turning to the right. I'm now wondering if the wheel is flexing enough to make the hub cap move around on the wheel just enough to make the noise. It is pretty loud, I can hear it clearly with the window down. Stumped.... Thoughts? Quote
jd52cranbrook Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 Have you driven the car without the hubcap? Quote
blueskies Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) Have you driven the car without the hubcap? Yes, drove it to work this morning without the cap. No noise... What worries me is that maybe there is an unusual amount of flexing going on with the wheel, and it gets it max stress in a right hand turn... having the wheel fail would be a disaster that I don't want to experience. I suppose the next test is to put the wheel on the rear as Norm mentioned, and see if the noise persists. I'd like to get this sorted before I drive the car four hours to Speed Week on the 8th. My spare wheel is slightly bent and slightly out of round, so I don't want to run it unless I have a flat. Pete Edited July 30, 2009 by blueskies Quote
jd52cranbrook Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 Easiest next test would be to put another hub cap on it. Quote
Don Coatney Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 Pete; Buy new wheels. I believe you can get new "smoothies" for around 50-60 bucks a pop. Your hub caps should fit the new wheels as no wheel spring clips are required. One of the reasons I bought new wheels is like you I wanted to go further than the end of my driveway. Why take a chance? Now if you want your car to look like a race winner you could get new chrome wheels. Quote
Jim Yergin Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 Easiest next test would be to put another hub cap on it. Or just drive it without the hubcap and see if the noise goes away? Jim Yergin Quote
PatrickG Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 with the hubcap off can you see any evidence of the hoop and center section having wiggled around at all? maybe the paint cracking where the two pieces of the rim are attached?? maybe pull the wheel off so you can see the rivets on the backside that hold the two pieces together. might see some evidence of them having moved around. Quote
blueskies Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Posted July 30, 2009 I'd love to buy new wheels, and disk brakes too. But if things continue to go the way they are, I may be selling everything I own to keep my house... buying more stuff for the Plymouth just isn't in the cards for now. I put the hub cap back on at lunch time and drove the car about 15 miles and could only hear the noise a tiny bit. Maybe it's just the hub cap talking to me... I think I'll just drive it till something breaks and then deal with it... Pete Quote
Jerry Roberts Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Try bending the clamps on the hub cap for a tighter fit . Quote
1955 plymouth Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Pete, My '50 makes a grinding, rubbing sort of noise when turning left only. I have removed the wheel to look around and it looks as if the camber adjustment might be a bit too far in on the top side of that wheel causing the tire to rub on the adjustment link that is in line with the tire, very minute rub marks on backside of tire, evident clean shiny metal from being rubbed on the adjuster link for the camber adjustment. Anyways, this is what it looks like to me on the right side of my Deluxe. It only rubs during pretty hard left hand turns, which will put a load on the right tire. Quote
radioguy7 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Why is running stock wheels with new radial rubber on them "taking a chance"? Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 well..there are those dealers out there saying that the earlier deisgn rims will fail due to fatique and construction design with the radial..while I have not experienced that or know of anyone directly that has (not saying it has not happened nor if it did the radials were the sole cause) but the fact of the matter is that the radial is designed for a wider rim to give you the properly side walls, footprint and flex designed into the tire for handling, ride quality and long life. These qualites are limmited by the more narrow rim widths of yesteryear..and to add a bit more...I am sure that they are limiting themselves to any liability with that statement... Quote
James_Douglas Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Pete, Th centers are hot riveted to the outer on the stock rims. Pull off the rim, remove the tire and have a welding shop put some 2" long spot welds on the inside of the rim where the center meats the outer. That will most likely solve the problem. James Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 just for grins I went to the Imperial homepage for some reading on bias versus radial you may want to read there for yourself..general conscesus there is that not all car makers were using the safety rims that Mopars has been using since the 30's and could easily roll a radial off the bead...so it is apparant that Mopar does not have issue with this...as for rim splits etc. the reported fialure were in the big truck industry and RV where excessive weight played more a factor than tire or rim individually.. age and condition of your stock rim is critical..if subjected to rust or had been curbed etc, it suitability for the road regardless of tire make is now an issue..I do inspect my rims prior to mounting a tire and suggest that you do likewise...I do believe you could easily detect a wheel that is not up to standards.. Quote
Niel Hoback Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Norm, yes it could change the balance. Thats why you have them balanced when you put the tires back on, welded wheels or not. Quote
TodFitch Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Norm, yes it could change the balance. Thats why you have them balanced when you put the tires back on, welded wheels or not. My current set of tires I mounted myself using a borrowed wheel balancer. I think "wheel balancer" is a misnomer: I checked the wheels before mounting the new tires and they were all very nearly perfect. However after mounting the tires the balance was way off. So the issue on balance was most an issue with the tires not with the wheels. The machine should be called a "tire balancer" rather than a "wheel balancer" The 17-5.25 wheels on the car were only popular in 1933 and 1934 and so the volume of sales on this size is low and there aren't many choices for replacements. My guess is they are made in small lots with lots of hand assembly steps which leads to high variation in weight/balance. I suppose that for sizes which have higher sales volume, like the 16 inch wheels on the late 1930s and 1940s cars, the tires might be made in a more automated plant that could produce a more uniform product. So it might not be as much of an issue on your cars but the experience sure sold me on the concept of always doing a balance after mounting a tire. Quote
Don Coatney Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 age and condition of your stock rim is critical.. Tim; Age (metal fatigue) and rust are the two main reasons I recommended new wheels. The machine should be called a "tire balancer" rather than a "wheel balancer" Tod; Remember the further out from the pivot point the more "out of balance weight" will effect the final result. That is why tires need to be balanced not so much with wheels. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 I agree Don..a good inspection is paramount to safety..if questionable..then by all means go with new rims...or at least more modern steel wheel through the 80's.. Quote
James_Douglas Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 In general I agree with Don. However, if all the tires are taken off the rims they are sandblasted, you will get a good sense if they are in bad shape. If they are in good shape, it is likely that the rivets have stretched a bit and that is the problem. If however you ever are thinking of adding disks to the front then new rims will be necessary. Best, James Quote
Niel Hoback Posted August 1, 2009 Report Posted August 1, 2009 Norm, I have to think that radial tires deliver much less shock to the rims than bias ply tires because radials have a much softer sidewall. Those old bias tires have a really stiff sidewall especially if they are 4 ply or more. Quote
BobT-47P15 Posted August 1, 2009 Report Posted August 1, 2009 For starters, and just to see what happens, I would gently bend out the clips on the hubcap first. Then, depending upon the result, swap with another cap. You don't have to bend them too hard - just use a screwdriver under the serrated tabs and go around the cap. If bent too far, it's hard to get them back on. But you should be able to tell a difference when putting it back on. Just my two cents.......got back home about 1:20 am Saturday from Nashville. Quote
PatrickG Posted August 4, 2009 Report Posted August 4, 2009 i second the idea for running a good weld bead where the two pieces of the rim connect. should solidify everything, and with the same weld at each of those four parts around the wheel it shouldnt change the balance any noticable amount. I doubt even a single weld on one side of the tire would make any significant change. If however you ever are thinking of adding disks to the front then new rims will be necessary. and not to get this off track but why new rims because of disc brakes? Quote
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