1950 Plymouth Business Coupe Electro-Mod Build

[jclars]

I wasn't certain I would do a build thread here until I saw Loren's recent post on Resto-Mods which more or less paved the way.  We'll see just how far that grace extends!

 

I have had this car for just over one year determining my direction before finishing my last project (situation normal per my wife).  I think having something hanging around the shop and mulling possibilities helps it evolve into a fun project.  My last project was a 1961 Volvo PV544 which sat out the required year while I determined its fate.  It did not have the stock engine in it, but it was a sound car.  I decided to go to the next wave of hot rodding - Electric conversion.  Now mind you, I did not do this for green reasons, although that is a nice by-product.  I did it for the performance I could get.  Approx. twice the horsepower and torque of the original power plant.  Let's just say it is quite spunky!

 

I have always liked the business coupes from all the auto makers, so when a Plymouth showed up locally I snagged it.  My first impression was the proportioning was perfect for another EV conversion.  While finishing up the Volvo, I became aware that I could save a ton of money if I did a swap, rather than from scratch.  I did a search for rear wheel drive and learned of someone in Ireland who had reverse engineered the gas engine out of the Lexus hybrid model.  In other words, toss the gas engine, buy his $350 circuit board and you could run just the electric part of it.  HOWEVER...that would lose the chance at a full 340 HP.  So I decided to look for a complete donor vehicle.  I totally lucked out at my first salvage auction, getting a running/driving 2007 Lexus GS450H (hybrid).  I really didn't know what  I got until it arrived at my doorstep on a car hauler.  I was amazed it was a totally function vehicle!  Just a little smooshed.  I have been driving it on our rural roads and really want to transplant as many of its features as possible.  Including the 0-60 in 5.2sec take-off.  (The Lexus weighs in at 4,134 lb vs the P20 at 3,068 lb)  Even by adding for the batteries, I think the final car will be less weight than the Lexus total.

 

I finally got the Lexus on the lift today to check dimensions of various components, including IRS, and it appears it is all doable.  I like to keep my builds as reversible as possible, so minimal cutting and chopping are envisioned.  The V-6 should slip into the narrow frame at the engine bay from what I can see.  Wheel bases are within 1.2" while track will be just inside the fenders.  The Lexus uses the same wheel bolt pattern as the Plymouth, so the custom wheels are also in play.

 

Let the fun begin!  (Although I have a couple repairs required before rearranging my shop to get both vehicles adjacent to each other.)  I think the first order of business will be to strip each vehicle down to determine where everything will go.  This could take awhile...

 

John

[Booger]

keep us posted, this will be new for all of us!

[RNR1957NYer]

OK, I'm in, but keep the Plymouth visually as-is: a patina'ed electro-mod!

[Veemoney]

Interesting project. 

[jclars]

I like that term RNR!  Electro-mod!  You are the originator and I will promote it!  Am I able to edit my Title for this post?

 

John

 

Done!  A new terminology is born!  You saw it first right here folks!!

 

 

Edited November 17 by jclars

[jclars]

I do have a history of keeping the patina on some of my modernizations.  This truck for instance.  All Thunderbird Super Coupe underneath except IFS is Jaguar XJ6.  Interior and steering all Thunderbird.   Encapsulated by an old truck body.  Comfortable enough for a 6,000 mile road trip 2 years ago.

 

I have already saved a website for a product to coat the Plymouth.  Funny I had not heard of it before - Flood Penetrol.

 

 

[Loren]

0 to 60 in 5.2 seconds!?

My Dad used to talk about Bonneville a lot when I was a wee child. He always said the land speed record could be had easily with electric power...you just needed a really long extension cord!

That was well before Bullet Trains and lithium ion batteries, so it was funnier then than it is now ( hey I was a little kid and my Dad had a sense of humor ). I used to ask him who held the land speed record ( largely to see if I had met him. My Dad knew all the hot rodders at the time ) He'd say John Cobb and then he'd name the speed which was slightly over 400 mph as I recall. His buddy Tom Beatty had a Drop Tank who was going around 250 mph at the time on gasoline. He was very thrifty and didn't use alcohol because it was expensive, until they caught him. But he never used nitro for the same reason. lol I last saw his car in the Henry Ford Museum ( on loan ).

Plymouths were a good low priced car that got repurposed unintentionally. Lee Petty figured out how he could use all sorts of stuff from the MoPar parts bin and actually make money racing....nobody does that! As Briggs Cunningham was fond of saying, "You know how to make a small fortune in racing? Start with a large one!"

Just for reference a Flathead Plymouth could do the quarter mile in 22 seconds ( the decimal point numbers don't matter at 22 seconds lol ) or just about as fast as a Porsche 924! I love that statistic and bring it up as often as I can, having friends who were in love with that German company.

So a 1950 Plymouth doing 0 to 60 in under 6 seconds would be a rather impressive ride!

Too bad we couldn't get a flux capacitor and go back to the 1950s to race for pink slips! 

[jclars]

The previous owner of my business coupe was legendary 70-80's Mopar sponsored S/S drag racer Dave Wren who lived close by and I never knew it!  My car was one of two surviving business coupes he used as drivers and were available at his estate sale last year.  His acreage was wall to wall Mopar cars without engines. Lots of cool muscle cars missing their hemi's.  He stripped them for repair parts to enable on-he-spot repairs at the races.  He was known to burn through them.  His place was known as the Hemi Ranch and was featured in Car Craft magazine in 77.  I tried to get one of his hemi's for this car, thinking it would be a nice tribute, but they were all torn down for parts.  At least 30 of them.  After I learned there were no catalog of engines for matching parts, and that i might have to chop up the car to make it fit anyway, i gave up the idea.

 

His most famous drag car was the 1970 barracuda with 426 hemi.  (Maybe 440?)  In stock form it clocked at 6.3 seconds.  I am sure Dave's car was faster, but i couldn't find his times.

 

 

 

Fast forward - Electric drag cars are fast evolving, but I will be happy with a quick and comfy driver.  The weight advantage of the BC should help ensure this. 

 

Just for fun:

 

 

[Sniper]

You know I've been test driving a Jaguar xjl super sport. It's the one with the 510 Horsepower Supercharged V8 under the hood. I've half fantasized about dropping that drivetrain into the 51 I've got. Oh Lordy what a rocket ship

[jclars]

Now that would be interesting.  Would it fit?  What model year?

 

How about a Jaguar I-Pace at 400 HP and 513 lb-ft torque.  I am seeing salvage ones going for $5000 - 7000.  (0- 60 4.3 sec)

[Plymouthy Adams]

embrace the electronics and or the total battery job....it is max power for sure compared to anything carburated....too many folks still clinging to old school when there no real rhyme or reason to forgo the advantage of the modern drivetrain except to say...I refuse to go modern.   I admit the cost of some stand alone harnesses put some of this out of range and many do not like the fact that you need a good interrogator to troubleshoot and that prevents them from embracing the new.  And face it, if the makers get their way, you will not be able to even interrogate your own cars in the future.....many forward of 2018 tie your hands now.  But we have a number of good years out there that you can choose from yet and still be very capable with economy and HP at the same time.  I have 3 more cubic inches over stock engine in my 48 and same number of cylinders and well over double the HP with two extra gears and a way way better final ratio and a ton of features that make drivability a pleasure.  Bigger and better brakes, ABS technology, fully active air bag restraint and list goes on including utilizing the entire donor vehicle heating and air conditioning and power rack and pinion steering, something all would come to appreciate and enjoy.   Now many state they like the way the old cars ride and the old engines respond...I can understand that, however, many take that stance due to not understanding the modern technology or not motivated to get that deep into a build over buy and bolt repairs.  A full retrofit is not that difficult to do but again, you only limited to your lack of imagination and motivation.  Again, this is not for everyone, you need not only the tools, time, and space, but skill sets also along with the drive to say failure is not acceptable.  Cost to do stock rebuild over the modern swap is the swap is less money but for sure more invasive.  For many I know cutting a car is unspeakable but then many buy cars that have no engines and transmissions just to make it call so easy as nothing to weight against the new verse old.  Anyway, room for all, have fun either way.  I am in the planning now for another retro build but this time a couple extra cylinders and barely over into the next decade of old mopar.  

[Sniper]

8 hours ago, jclars said:

Now that would be interesting.  Would it fit?  What model year?

2011, will it fit?  Not without a lot of work, lol.  It is not a good donor for a few reasons.  Number one being, near as I can figure. they only made about 30 of them world wide.  So it's rare.  But most important, I'd probably kill myself driving it, lol.  I spent the first couple of years of my driving life on a motor cycle.  This is the only car I have ever driven that accelerates like one.

 

8 hours ago, jclars said:

How about a Jaguar I-Pace at 400 HP and 513 lb-ft torque.  I am seeing salvage ones going for $5000 - 7000.  (0- 60 4.3 sec)

I dunno, haven't looked at one of those.  That 0-60 time is similar to the Supersport's. 

 

In any event, I already have a game plan with my Plymouth.  Sort of straddling the two era's.  A slightly hopped up, fuel injected flat head with touches of modern tech throughout.

[RNR1957NYer]

19 hours ago, jclars said:

I like that term RNR!  Electro-mod!  You are the originator and I will promote it!  Am I able to edit my Title for this post?

 

John

 

Done!  A new terminology is born!  You saw it first right here folks!!

 

 

Glad to be able to contribute in some small fashion!!!

[jclars]

I got myself a 1950 Plymouth Service manual not necessarily for repair, but for the frame dimensions and disassembly instructions.  Turns out the one page I found on a forum post was the P20 frame, just not labelled in the book precisely.  From the looks of it and from me peering into the engine bay, it is looking more feasible for the Lexus engine with electric transmission to fit in its entirety without a lot of cutting.  Now if I could find a dimensional of the 3.5L Lexus engine, as well as a floor pan schematic, I  could cross and maybe do my own schematic showing the overlay.

 

Peering into the Plymouth engine bay required removing the loose hood that sat on top - by myself.  Do you know how heavy those things are?  Yeah, you do.  Well, actually it didn't seem too bad at the time, but using outstretched arms with the peak of the hood in my gut, my wrists took most of the dead weight.  So I've had a cast on my RH since Saturday and got more pain relief yesterday when they doubled my dosage of strong anti-inflammatory drugs.  (So that explains my numerous quick responses to various threads and maybe some weird answers.  (Maybe.  Friends would say that is a normal trait.)  Thanks all for the entertainment while I mend!  Not to mention some very useful info!  I haven't been to the shop since Friday, except to access a certain fridge which houses further medicinal agents.

 

I am being kicked out of the house this afternoon on wifes orders.  With the extra pain relief, I might even feel like doing something other than computer stuff.

 

John

 

 

 

 

[jclars]

I got two manuals this week.  A service manual for the Plymouth and a book of wiring diagrams for the Lexus.

 

Shown in the middle is my Electric, Vacuum schematic book for The T-bird transplant into my 56 F100.

 

Based on page count, are we really making progress with the EV?  I can't imagine how many miles of plastic coated copper are represented in those pages, but I will guess it would equate to a few barrels of oil.  Not to mention eventual recycling costs.
 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 11:06 PM by jclars

[Sniper]

How many of those pages are warning ans cautions brought about by the legal system?

 

 

[jclars]

Yeah, there's that, but also I realized there are a great deal of magnified views that take many pages to cover one circuit.  That's good news for my eyesight.  I also didn't expect color diagrams - that is super!  

[9 foot box]

   My wife’s uncle is Roland Wiench. He built a 77 El Camino EV. My BIL has the car now. It’s probably old technology now.  I don’t know much about it, but he had the neutral safety switch oriented slightly off to prevent unauthorized operation. We trailered it after figuring that out. I still have a box of the old cables that he used to connect the original battery configuration, then he changed to a stackable plate style battery pack as technology advanced. Your donor car probably has tech that Roland pioneered. I have his commercial sewing machine that I have learned to use. RIP Roland. Rick D.