48 DeSoto engine start up after 40 year ago rebuild

[MarcDeSoto]

Engine is still hard starting, I think it's because spark plugs are getting wet with oil.  I also saw oil seeping out of the valve covers.  Looked inside and saw a couple of the oil gallerys in front of the tappets were full with oil.  Any ideas of what is causing this excessive oil?  

Edited January 26, 2023 by MarcDeSoto

[Kilgore47]

13 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

Looked inside and saw a couple of the oil gallerys in front of the tappets were full with oil

They should all be full of oil.

[keithb7]

Marc the questions here about oil pools inside the valve covers reveals that you really should to be doing more reading. Researching. Your understanding of these engines appears limited.  The oil pools are a very basic foundational level topic. 
 

Think about all the various ways oil can enter into the cylinders. There really aren’t that many ways on a flathead engine.  There is no oil pressure up in the head area where the spark plugs are.  There are no valve stem seals. How then could oil get up there? Ideally you’d be able to answer this. If not, definitely do more reading and research. Asking for quick answers here may get you a solution but you likely won’t gain any understanding. You really should strive for deeper level understanding. You’ll struggle to get that from a social media site such as this. 
 

I am carefully not trying to sound pretentious here. I’m really trying to help you by guiding you to opening massive doors for yourself. Once you get your car running and driving you’ll benefit tremendously by having a good grasp of the basics. Then you can and will, be able to troubleshoot and fix your car literally on the roadside, quickly. 

[Sam Buchanan]

Excellent post, Keith. I've struggled with biting my tongue during this DeSoto saga because I've always been one who deep-dives into research on whatever project I'm undertaking. Much time during my projects has been spent in the "thinking chair" as various options are considered for solving or answering the situation at hand. I consider this far more productive use of time than running to the computer every time some question arises and creating a multi-page thread only to find out I could have solved the question on my own with some productive pondering.

 

But.....maybe the social connections are part of the journey for some folks....and maybe that's ok. But some of us self-starters get frustrated watching that process.  ?

 

The thinking chair in action as a one-off fuel tank mount for a prototype installation is thunk thru.

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[MarcDeSoto]

I do read all the time.  I have the Chilton Motor Age books, and the Motor manual.  I watch many videos on Youtube.  I read and watch the filmstrips MTSC.  But yes there are some holes in my knowledge for sure.  Like I didn't know what the oil pockets were for.  I will do more basic Motor manual reading as I've forgotten a lot since the 80s.  Wait til you hear about the latest problem.  The starter motor yesterday wouldn't stop.  I kept clicking the remote starter and it wouldn't stop.  I pulled the alligator clip off of the neg. battery terminal and it wouldn't stop.  Finally as a last resort, I pulled the pos. batt. cable off and then it stopped.  Maybe I have a short or starter is not releasing at the solenoid?  I'm going to pull the starter and read the manual on how to troubleshoot the starter.  

Edited January 26, 2023 by MarcDeSoto

[Los_Control]

I will  add that people learn in different ways.  ..... I quit school in the 8th grade, I was wasting everyone's time .... I never could learn much from books.

Although I did enjoy reading novels ,,,, not anymore.

 

I have a couple books on my truck, recently I had a problem removing a 1/2 moon key ... my book did not show the key.

A great man here shared his book & it showed the key.

My point is, you read one book & you get one opinion. .... May not be the best opinion or even a correct opinion .... but you get it.

 

Today's world with the internet & information sharing .... imho is far superior then just reading a book.

You ask a question, and almost instantly you get several opinions and solutions. It is almost like reading several books on the subject.

The conversation is almost like sitting around a table & sharing experiences .... Then we are talking decades of combined experience. .... Everyone learns something.

May only be that the one sitting over there has mental issues .... but we all learn something.

 

I personally like everyone's questions & opinions, with this community you never know where the conversation will go, or what you will learn.

 

I also respect the opinion of the others that say go read a book. 

[Sam Buchanan]

I certainly hope I didn't offend anyone with my post, as mentioned I thought long and hard about saying anything. But hopefully I offered one more option on how to solve a problem.......stop and THINK! Most of the issues we face with these old cars have simple solutions because the cars are simple. I suspect that back in the day (decades before the internet!) they were often repaired in the back of gas stations by guys with sub-high school educations who were able to look at a problem, study it, try something, maybe study it some more, then analytically reach a solution....with no keyboard in sight! ?

 

This forum is a fantastic resource, it has helped me innumerable times as I brought the P15 back to road service. Thank you again for all the assistance rendered!

[MarcDeSoto]

Yes, stop and think plus read is a good practice.  I guess I have been using this site as a crutch whenever I have a problem.  The shop manual doesn't go into basics like the oil gallerys, but the theorical auto mechnics books do.  And I have plenty of these books, so I will start reading them as well as the shop manual.  The Motor textbook, not the common shop manual, is excellent and read it cover to cover some four decades ago, but have forgotten a lot.  

[Sniper]

Let also remember not to get cocky, seen to many think they know what they are doing only to find themselves in over their head.  I may have mentioned I got my son a BMW 535i as a college car.  Been having him do all the work on it.  One of his friends (a girl, ?) has a BMW X5 which has a funky smell in it.  This was the case with his car when we first got it so our first job was to replace the cabin air filters.  I had him do it, we watched video on how to do it and away he went.  So he volunteered to do the same for her.  I wonder if he knows there are two sets of filters for the cabin air.  One for fresh air, one for recirc, unlike his 535 which only has one set.  I wonder if I will mention it to him.  lol.  I won't be involved in this evolution except as a standby, emergency resource.

 

Hopefully, he pulls it off and impresses her. 

[Los_Control]

I sure hope you do not think I'm offended @Sam Buchanan You offer a very valid opinion which I value.

 

My opinion is @Sam Buchananschooled me on electrical connections for Hot Rods.

I thought I knew what was best .... Sam comes around and explains what he does for aircraft ..... I'm eating crow. I thank Sam for teaching me.

How many books are required to read to learn about the differences of copper stranded wire, & proper connections & proper uses for different applications?

 

I love @sniper opinion also ....

I remember when I was a apprentice finish carpenter.  We were building a curved maple rail for a staircase. I was grinding in a cat's ass joint ... I asked Doug the best way to do this .... He got pissed and exclaimed it took him 40 frigging years to learn this ... why should he teach me?

 

Me: ... You paying me by the hour boss, you can show me or pay me... your choice. ... He showed me. ... He growled while doing it.

 

People today have learned many new things from standing on the shoulders of our ancestors.

Do we imagine we moved from using a latrine to using a indoor bathroom without sharing knowledge?

 

C'mon @Sniper, share with the kid your info on the cabin filter .... He can then use his brain to work on bigger issues .... He would also learn about having a back up plan.

We all learn something.

[Sniper]

59 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

C'mon @Sniper, share with the kid your info on the cabin filter .... He can then use his brain to work on bigger issues .... He would also learn about having a back up plan.

We all learn something.

 

Maybe he needs to learn to know the entire extent of the job at hand?  Otherwise he'll be asking for help every time there is an issue outside of his narrowly focused parameters.  This is something I had to learn myself. 

[Sniper]

Well, I gave the kid notice about the extra filter.  Yeah I'm a toughie, lol.  Problem is the easy filters to change are under the hood and are called cabin air filters.  The one actually in the cabin is called a recirculation filter and that is a more involved job, but since that is were the cabin air filter on my BMW is located and he has already changed those he's not too worried about it.  Neither am I, told him if he got stuck he could always call me but since he's be in the middle of the job when that happened he's have more actual hands on that I would, so I might not be much help.  Take pictures.

[Los_Control]

On 1/27/2023 at 5:44 PM, Sniper said:

Well, I gave the kid notice about the extra filter.  Yeah I'm a toughie, lol. 

There is no right or wrong way to raise children, A million books and a million opinions .... Is up to you to do whats best.

I was just being a smart arse, thinking if you gave him pointers, his GF may give him a kiss for being so intelligent 

 

The very next day a radio show I listen to, the host was upset.  His 19 year old Daughter who is a collage student was having problems. This made him sad.

Same time as a multi millionaire, he said he could fix her problems ..... then he would be stealing from her the opportunity to learn & react to fix things on her own.

 

You see @sniper, I was thinking as a friend to get that kid a kiss .... I am not a parent, you are.

[MarcDeSoto]

Now that I'm waiting for the starter to come back fromt he electric shop, I'm torqueing the head bolts and manifold nuts and making sure everything is shipshape on my block before I get the starter back.  I torqued the manifold nuts to 25 ft. lbs where I could get a socket, but several of the nuts were not accessible with a socket wrench.  So I used an open end or box end 9/16 wrench.  I noticed that I couldn't get my 9/16 wrench on a couple of the nuts as they were a bit rounded over.  The nuts are soft brass I guess for a reason.  maybe because they are less likely to cross thread the studs?  So I replaced two nuts with regular nuts from my can of nuts.  For the nuts that I couldn't torque with a torque wrench, I estimated a hand force of 25 ft. lbs.  

[Sam Buchanan]

The nuts are brass so they won't corrode and seize on the studs.

[LeRoy]

On 1/26/2023 at 2:19 PM, Sam Buchanan said:

Excellent post, Keith. I've struggled with biting my tongue during this DeSoto saga because I've always been one who deep-dives into research on whatever project I'm undertaking. Much time during my projects has been spent in the "thinking chair" as various options are considered for solving or answering the situation at hand. I consider this far more productive use of time than running to the computer every time some question arises and creating a multi-page thread only to find out I could have solved the question on my own with some productive pondering.

 

But.....maybe the social connections are part of the journey for some folks....and maybe that's ok. But some of us self-starters get frustrated watching that process.  ?

 

The thinking chair in action as a one-off fuel tank mount for a prototype installation is thunk thru.

 

Heya Sam, we are neighbors, I'm just east of Knoxville in the hills. I assume that's a chilly adult beverage, I find them critical for proper thinking chair activities. I don't see any steam or smoke coming off the top of your head so I assume you've either just started or its a fairly simple challenge you're thinking on 

[LeRoy]

On 1/26/2023 at 1:28 PM, keithb7 said:

How then could oil get up there?

I find the best way to get it up there is overfill the crankcase and let the crank splash it up there.

[LeRoy]

On 1/26/2023 at 5:46 PM, Sniper said:

 

Maybe he needs to learn to know the entire extent of the job at hand?  Otherwise he'll be asking for help every time there is an issue outside of his narrowly focused parameters.  This is something I had to learn myself. 

Just think about how much his world will change if he really impresses this young lady. I find car challenges are nothing compared to the opposite sex!

[LeRoy]

14 minutes ago, Sam Buchanan said:

The nuts are brass so they won't corrode and seize on the studs.

I dare ya to walk in an auto parts store and ask for manifold nuts, they will give you the skunk eye.

[RobertKB]

5 hours ago, LeRoy said:

I dare ya to walk in an auto parts store and ask for manifold nuts, they will give you the skunk eye.

That’s why I’ve always take all manifold nuts and washers, especially the brass ones, off any old Mopar engine that’s only good for parts. I have way more than needed. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by RobertKB

[Sam Buchanan]

McMaster Carr likely has the brass nuts but the dished stud washers and nuts are specialty items. The only place I've seen them is as part of a $$kit:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/323375220141?hash=item4b4aaa45ad%3Ag%3A0dQAAOSwpbVbYGzG&fits=Submodel%3ABase|Year%3A1948|Trim%3ABase|Model%3AP15+Special+Deluxe|Make%3APlymouth|Engine+-+Liter_Display%3A--|Trim%3ABase|Engine%3A--

 

 

Some of mine were missing so am running conventional nuts and washers in their place, hope there aren't long-term problems.

[Sniper]

Vintage power wagons sells the washers as well as the nuts separately.  It's in the engine section of their online catalog

 

 

[Sam Buchanan]

For clarification, do these specialized washers and nuts go on the four outboard studs or the four studs that are common to both the intake and exhaust manifolds? The common studs would make more sense to me but...........

Edited February 2, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[LeRoy]

15 minutes ago, Sam Buchanan said:

For clarification, do these specialized washers and nuts go on the four outboard studs or the four studs that are common to both the intake and exhaust manifolds? The common studs would make more sense to me but...........

I think on mine the beveled nuts and tapered washers are on the exhaust manifold. I think the idea is the split nuts / tapered washers will move with the exhaust preventing breakage. A tight bind would be more likely to bust the cast durning all the heat induced movement the exhaust sees. My best guess.

 

I have bolts in place of the long studs, it's one of the things on my don't forget to address list one day. Those 2 bolts seeped a little on initial startup dispite sealant on the threads.

Edited February 2, 2023 by LeRoy

[Sniper]

2 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

For clarification, do these specialized washers and nuts go on the four outboard studs or the four studs that are common to both the intake and exhaust manifolds? The common studs would make more sense to me but...........

 

I asked that same question some time ago.  Here's a tread from the truck side that answers it for you

 

https://p15-d24.com/topic/46957-brass-manifold-nuts-and-washers/