Sam Buchanan Posted June 6, 2022 Report Share Posted June 6, 2022 (edited) One of the items at the top of my punch list when the P15 was purchased was the conversion to a dual-chamber master cylinder and front disc brakes. For various reasons I elected to rebuild the stock brakes when I returned the car to service, but the time has come to make the jump to discs. Traffic is getting increasingly hectic in our rapidly growing area and I think the $$$$'s will be well-spent for peace of mind and added safety. Based on positive reviews on this forum I elected to go with the Scarebird conversion. This thread will offer details of the upgrade so future readers will have a resource for consideration. My kit includes aluminum hubs but I see this option is no longer listed on the Scarebird website. In its place is a more bare-bones conversion that requires modification of the stock spindles. But here is what was included in my kit--documentation is included and the components appear to be of high quality. The first step is to remove the stock drums and backing plates with all the original components. The photo below shows why the front brakes have not had optimum stopping power because half of each shoe is barely touching the drum. This is most likely due to improper major shoe adjustment. But one reason I want to move away from the drum brakes is because of the finicky adjustment process which sometimes requires chants and the sprinkling of chicken blood around the shop...... No longer needed: Here is the spindle with all the stock brake components removed along with decades of caked on grease and road debris. This will be a great opportunity to make sure all the grease zerks are functional. Here is the kit caliper bracket bolted to the stock spindle, the fit is perfect. More to come. Edited June 12, 2022 by Sam Buchanan 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted June 6, 2022 Report Share Posted June 6, 2022 My brother always mentioned having the blood sacrifice to find lost parts or get something to work. Usually it was his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted June 6, 2022 Report Share Posted June 6, 2022 Be interested to see how it stacks up to the Rusty Hope kit I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug&Deb Posted June 7, 2022 Report Share Posted June 7, 2022 I used a Scarebird kit on my 52 Coronet. Both kits are high quality and both offer good customer service. The Scarebird kit didn’t require any modifications which is why I elected to use it. I don’t think you can go wrong either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Buchanan Posted June 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) The bearings and seals were installed in the hubs and the assembly secured to the spindle with the stock washer and nut. I had to grind a few thousandths off the back of the nut to get clearance for the cotter pin which was included in the kit. I've read reports of the kit dust cap not staying in place but the stock cap is too small....we'll see what happens. The rotor is a precise fit on the hub and I temporarily secured it with a couple of 1/2"-20 lug nuts from a local parts store. The threads on both hubs are right-hand. The calipers I purchased came with bolts and seals and everything lined up perfectly on the adapter plates. I'm waiting on hoses to arrive over-night so I can complete the installation. Parts List: Rotors; 1991-92 Lincoln Mark VII rear Calipers; 1990 Chevy Celebrity Pads; 1990 Chevy Celebrity Hoses; 1979 Cadillac Seville front *Rotors, calipers and pads purchased from Rock Auto. More to come....interested to see if everything plays nice with the stock 15" wheels. Edited June 7, 2022 by Sam Buchanan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug&Deb Posted June 7, 2022 Report Share Posted June 7, 2022 Interesting, my rotors for the Coronet are Ford Probe front rotors. Calipers and pads are the same. Watch the routing of the hoses. I had better luck running them behind the shocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted June 7, 2022 Report Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) I like the dog point studs. Did you happen to see my conversion of the spindle nut to a newer adjusting setup? Makes setting up the end play much more precise, especially for a disc setup. Edited June 7, 2022 by Sniper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Buchanan Posted June 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2022 15 minutes ago, Sniper said: I like the dog point studs. Did you happen to see my conversion of the spindle nut to a newer adjusting setup? Makes setting up the end play much more precise, especially for a disc setup. I like that, may pick up a couple of those kits. However, so far I'm ok with the preload setting with the stock nut, but the Dorman kit definitely offers more adjustability. Thanks for the tip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug&Deb Posted June 8, 2022 Report Share Posted June 8, 2022 I wasn’t able to use the dust caps from the kit. They were about an 1/8 inch too shallow. I did a bit of tweaking to the originals and they work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkers72 Posted June 8, 2022 Report Share Posted June 8, 2022 I put a Scarebird kit with their new hubs on my DeSoto and found dust caps that fit perfectly at my local hardware store. They were in an aisle with replacement utility trailer parts. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Buchanan Posted June 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2022 (edited) The Caddie brake hoses arrived this morning so one side is finished. I used 15" hoses, the only mod needed was to slightly enlarge the hole in the frame bracket so the hose fitting would insert fully into the bracket. Then the big moment........would there be any interference between the caliper and wheel?? NONE! When I installed the Wilwood dual-chamber master cylinder I mounted the remote reservoirs high on the firewall. I was able to open the caliper bleeder and the caliper basically bled itself as gravity did its thing. After the bubbles disappeared, I had a decent pedal. All four corners will get another bleed after everything is finished. One more side to finish then the test drive....more to come. Edited June 8, 2022 by Sam Buchanan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Buchanan Posted June 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) Been driving the P15 around town to bed in the pads even though it still needs a final bleed. I haven't seen the need to remove the residual valve in the Wilwood dual-chamber master cylinder, the calipers release just fine. Haven't had any wheel/tire interference issues, the Scarebird installation seems to be trouble-free. I don't know if the front track changed any, didn't take any measurements pre-installation. Happy camper. ? Edited June 10, 2022 by Sam Buchanan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted June 10, 2022 Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 I might do that maybe a year or so after I get it on the road. Going to be a while. Just too much going on right now. After I drive it and really get the feel for original brakes, might change (before I hit a deer). Keep us informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug&Deb Posted June 11, 2022 Report Share Posted June 11, 2022 I have almost 10,000 miles on my Scarebird kit. No problems or complaints so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Buchanan Posted June 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 To close the loop on this installation.....bled the brakes again and think it's probably as good as it'll get. The brakes work well but a second pump of the pedal brings it up a little higher than the first pump. This leads me to wonder if the master cylinder is a little under size or maybe a stronger residual valve might help. The Wilwood is available with a larger bore, if doing this again I would consider upsizing a bit. But without side-by-side comparison I can't make a definitive judgment. Overall, well pleased with the conversion....think I've done about all I can do to upgrade the P15 brakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted June 12, 2022 Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 Assuming no other inherent issues (M/C volume off, air in the lines, etc) a double pump usually means the drums need adjusting. Did you check the rear drum adjustment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted June 12, 2022 Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Sniper said: Assuming no other inherent issues (M/C volume off, air in the lines, etc) a double pump usually means the drums need adjusting. Did you check the rear drum adjustment? Beat me to it Sniper! On disks, it can also be an issue with 'pad knockback' due to disk runout. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted June 12, 2022 Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 Just now, kencombs said: Beat me to it Sniper! On disks, it can also be an issue with 'pad knockback' due to disk runout. A good point as well. Which is why I converted my front spindle nut to the later style adjusters. Just in case, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Buchanan Posted June 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Sniper said: Assuming no other inherent issues (M/C volume off, air in the lines, etc) a double pump usually means the drums need adjusting. Did you check the rear drum adjustment? I haven't for a while but I have that on my list for this week along with a valve adjustment. The difference in the first and second pump is very slight, still have a good pedal on first pump. I'll do another bleed in a few weeks after everything has settled in. Not concerned about rotor runout, the hub bearing adjustment is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Buchanan Posted June 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2022 On 6/12/2022 at 8:24 AM, Sam Buchanan said: To close the loop on this installation.....bled the brakes again and think it's probably as good as it'll get. The brakes work well but a second pump of the pedal brings it up a little higher than the first pump. This leads me to wonder if the master cylinder is a little under size or maybe a stronger residual valve might help. The Wilwood is available with a larger bore, if doing this again I would consider upsizing a bit. But without side-by-side comparison I can't make a definitive judgment. Overall, well pleased with the conversion....think I've done about all I can do to upgrade the P15 brakes. Final update: Bled the brakes again, adjusted the rear brakes, and all is well. Good pedal on first pump and the discs work nicely. Not as powerful as a modern car due to no boost.....but good. The Wilwood 1" dual-chamber master cylinder is a good upgrade and very compatible with our brakes. Highly recommended.....love the remote reservoirs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted June 19, 2022 Report Share Posted June 19, 2022 12 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said: Final update: Bled the brakes again, adjusted the rear brakes, and all is well. Good pedal on first pump and the discs work nicely. Not as powerful as a modern car due to no boost.....but good. The Wilwood 1" dual-chamber master cylinder is a good upgrade and very compatible with our brakes. Highly recommended.....love the remote reservoirs! I'm glad to hear that! My plan is also an unboosted disk/drum setup. I'll be using a 1 1/32" master as that was what is available in my unique situation. Using suspended pedals for a 60 truck in my 56. The 60 setup used a 4 bolt master mount, same as the early 70 dual chamber disk/drum pickups. So that is what my new one is. I was hoping a booster wouldn't be needed and your experience is close enough in diameter to give me some confidence that it will work OK. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfish Posted July 3, 2022 Report Share Posted July 3, 2022 The new Economy Scarebird kit (only one available now for P15s) uses different calipers and rotors, does not include hubs or bearings. The steel mounting plate is also different. You have to use the hubs from the old brake drums. Don't know why the photo of the spindle is shown sideways. I can't fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YukonJack Posted July 4, 2022 Report Share Posted July 4, 2022 5 hours ago, jfish said: The new Economy Scarebird kit (only one available now for P15s) uses different calipers and rotors, does not include hubs or bearings. The steel mounting plate is also different. You have to use the hubs from the old brake drums. Don't know why the photo of the spindle is shown sideways. I can't fix it. What rotors are they telling you to use? Seems like they only eliminated the hubs on this kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfish Posted July 4, 2022 Report Share Posted July 4, 2022 16 hours ago, YukonJack said: What rotors are they telling you to use? Seems like they only eliminated the hubs on this kit. Rotors are NAPA 4886318. For 1993-1996 Ford Probe front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Buchanan Posted July 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2022 Update: Hubs are still available as an add-on for the economy kit: https://scarebird.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=64&product_id=282 $319.58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.