Need help on how to use Miller Brake Gauge MT-19 tool kit.

[MarcDeSoto]

I am getting ready to make a brake adjustment on my newly installed brakes on my 48 DeSoto bus. coupe.  I have the Miller brake gauge tool kit, but don't really understand how to set it up.  I don't have any instructions.  The sleeves or cylinders that I have are 32, 33, 41, 47, 70, 74.  I read that the 41 sleeve is for post 1938 Mopars for the rear axle.  Does anyone know what sleeve is for the front axle? Also I don't know how to set up the tools for measuring the brake drum.  I think you have to balance it on those cone shaped pieces somehow.  Does anyone have any more information?  Thanks, Marc.

[Bob Riding]

Hey Marc,

I have the AMMCO 1750 Brake Gage, which allows you to measure the trueness of your drums, and adjust the Mopar brakes. Not sure if what you have functions similarly, but here you go...

[Dodgeb4ya]

And...I'll probably  catch hell for saying this..

Have you read the factory DeSoto shop manual for the best answer to your question?

Edited February 14, 2022 by Dodgeb4ya

[Bryan]

1 hour ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

And...I'll probably  catch hell for saying this..

Have you read the factory DeSoto shop manual for the best answer to your question?

Arrrrgg  ? ?

[desoto1939]

Marc: Rich hartung.  I have the same MT19 and have sold several of these.

 

Call me tonight home phone 610-630-9188  This is my home phone I lie near Philadelphia Pa so i am eastern time zone.  Or send me you phone number so we can talk.

 

Desoto1939@aol.com

[MarcDeSoto]

3 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

And...I'll probably  catch hell for saying this..

Have you read the factory DeSoto shop manual for the best answer to your question?

Ok Dodge, here's your hell.  You know as well as I know, that the shop manual says very little about the M-19 tool.  They have pictures of it yes, but they don't say how to set it up.  I'm perplexed about how you set it up to measure the drums for example.  Bob, yes thanks for the instructions on how to use the AAMCO tool.  I do own one, but it's missing the micrometer shaft.  If I can't figure out how to use the Miller tool, maybe I could borrow your shaft.  Thanks, Marc.  My number is 951-331-1941

Edited February 14, 2022 by MarcDeSoto

[Bob Riding]

Anytime

 

[desoto1939]

1 hour ago, desoto1939 said:

Marc: Rich hartung.  I have the same MT19 and have sold several of these.

 

Call me tonight home phone 610-630-9188  This is my home phone I lie near Philadelphia Pa so i am eastern time zone.  Or send me you phone number so we can talk.

 

Desoto1939@aol.com

Marc: I know how to set this tool up and how to mike the drum with the tool I have done this numerous time. This is a better tool thanthe Ammco tool.

 

send me your home phone number

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[MarcDeSoto]

I'll call you now.  Thanks, Marc.  My number is above.  

[MarcDeSoto]

I talked to Rick Hartung today about the M-19 brake gauge.  We discovered that I must have the wrong brake shoes.  The two back shoes on the rear axle are supposed to be shorter than the other shoes, about 8" as opposed to 12".  But mine are the same length as the others.  I bought these shoes back in the 80s, so too late for a return.  Can you still buy these shoes from a local source like NAPA, or do I have to go to a specialized dealer?  

[Dodgeb4ya]

3 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

Ok Dodge, here's your hell.  You know as well as I know, that the shop manual says very little about the M-19 tool.  They have pictures of it yes, but they don't say how to set it up.  I'm perplexed about how you set it up to measure the drums for example.  

 

Ok I accept the hell you have showered me with...

Thank you.

Don't forget to arc your shoes...the ones on the car.

 

[MarcDeSoto]

Can I use the shoes I have, or do I have to change those shoes on the rear axle?  The book says the rear shoe lining are supposed to only be about 8" long.  When I look at parts dealers like AB or Moparpro, they don't specify what shoes you are getting, front axle or rear axle.  Is that a mistake?  Do garages still arc brake shoes?  

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by MarcDeSoto

[MarcDeSoto]

After talking to Rick Hartung, I think I know how to use the M-19 brake gauge now.  I found out from Rick that I use the 41 sleeve on the rear axle and the 70 sleeve on the front.  I'll see tomorrow when I try it.  Just wondering if it's OK to go against the shop manual and Parts Book and put in a 12" shoe on the rear of the rear axle brakes?  The book says it should be about 9" in the back.  

[Ron42Dodge]

Marc, can I ask a favor?  I have an incomplete  set of the MT-19  tool.  Unfortunately I am missing the tee that everything works off of and 2 of the bushings.  I am missing Bushings 70 and 41 which are the 2 that would be used on a 1942 Dodge.  The auction I picked up my tool at had a 42 Dodge auctioned off so the missing pieces were probably in the trunk.  Is there any way you could send dimensions of the bushings 41 and 70? Length, I.D and O.D (actually I think the OD are all the same) .  Also the length of the tee and leg.  I think I know the ID of the tee as the bushing need to sleeve into it but real numbers are better than my imagination.  I found a PVC tee that sleeves the bushings pretty nice  and has a smaller side outlet for the bar but it is not a realistic solution..  Can you verify the tee just sleeves over the bushings (nothing locks in when you sleeve over the bushing?).  And the side inlet there is a threaded wing nut sort of lock that just pinches the pipe (It doesn't actually align or go into a hole?)  I'm thinking about having the missing pieces remade if affordable.  I have Bushings 47, 44, 32, 31 and 30.  Thanks.  Ron

[bacelaw]

For what it's worth, I have the Aamco tool, and I find my homemade tool much more effective and easier to use with just about the same results...

[LazyK]

Marc has not been active on the site for over 6 months. Maybe someone else can chime in.

[Sam Buchanan]

2 hours ago, LazyK said:

Marc has not been active on the site for over 6 months. Maybe someone else can chime in.

 

Does anyone know his status...maybe on other forums? Wondering if his project is still active.

[TodFitch]

29 minutes ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

Does anyone know his status...maybe on other forums? Wondering if his project is still active.

I have seen recent posts from him, or at least someone in the same town with the same car on the AACA forums.

[desoto1939]

8 hours ago, bacelaw said:

For what it's worth, I have the Aamco tool, and I find my homemade tool much more effective and easier to use with just about the same results...

Bacelaw:  I have a question for you since you use the modern brake tool. i have both the Ammco Brake gage and he Miller MT19 brake gage and also the Miller Truebrake tool that uses the sleeves and then you can cut down the linings to fit the arc of the drums.

 

My question that the Ammco and the Miller mT 19 both measure the diameter of the drum so that you can get the shoes properly set and so that you have the proper spacing at the toe and heel of each shoe.

 

With the newer tool the drum is removed from the spindle and or the rear axle. So how do you measure the drum with your new and improved tool? I am still trying to fingure this out by looking at the tool.

 

Can you explain how this tool is better than the Ammco or the factory Miller tool?

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[Sam Buchanan]

I'm not going to get into a debate about which tool is superior but I can describe how I measure the inside diameter of the drum and transfer that dimension to the shoes using the "home-made" tool. Here is that description of the process I posted back in 2019:

 

https://p15-d24.com/topic/50182-brake-adjustment-tool-updated/

 

Edited Sunday at 10:54 PM by Sam Buchanan

[bacelaw]

1 hour ago, desoto1939 said:

Bacelaw:  I have a question for you since you use the modern brake tool. i have both the Ammco Brake gage and he Miller MT19 brake gage and also the Miller Truebrake tool that uses the sleeves and then you can cut down the linings to fit the arc of the drums.

 

My question that the Ammco and the Miller mT 19 both measure the diameter of the drum so that you can get the shoes properly set and so that you have the proper spacing at the toe and heel of each shoe.

 

With the newer tool the drum is removed from the spindle and or the rear axle. So how do you measure the drum with your new and improved tool? I am still trying to fingure this out by looking at the tool.

 

Can you explain how this tool is better than the Ammco or the factory Miller tool?

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

 

 

I use the method @Sam Buchanan describes.  Works great and gives you more control.  The Aamco tool has the gap  built-in so to speak.  You have fumble with the diameter of the drum, then make sure the dial thing is properly set and at the end pray that the built-in setting is correct - there's no way to really double check it.  The homemade tool allows for more flexibility. 

[desoto1939]

2 hours ago, bacelaw said:

 

 

I use the method @Sam Buchanan describes.  Works great and gives you more control.  The Aamco tool has the gap  built-in so to speak.  You have fumble with the diameter of the drum, then make sure the dial thing is properly set and at the end pray that the built-in setting is correct - there's no way to really double check it.  The homemade tool allows for more flexibility. 

The correct way to use the Ammco tool is that yes you use the tool end with the dial and the other end with the rod and the flat spot fit on the inside lip of the drum. You then loosen the set screw on the dial end and rotate the dial until it does not move, Yes you have to be directly across the middle. Also remember that you now divide the reading on the dial, and lets say it is 40 which is 40 over. You then divide that  in half and then set the dial at the 20 mark becasue you are only doing one shoe at a time.

 

You then put the tool on the spindle or axle shaft shaft and then either use the half moon adjuster on the backing plate to move the top of the shoe out and according to your specs for your car the distance at the top to the rod is either 6 or 12 thousands, then do the same for the eccentric, You must know the correct  spacing for the toe and heel for your car. You use a flat feeler gage to make the spacing.  So again how did you determine the inside diameter of ther drum when the drum is off ther car. and to know when the shoes are set up properly.

 

Please answer the question. I know a person that was using the tool you use and then found the Ammco tool and discovered that your tool was way off the mark and the Ammco tool gave him a proper set the first time.

 

Rich hartung

desoto1939@aol.com 

[bacelaw]

1 minute ago, desoto1939 said:

The correct way to use the Ammco tool is that yes you use the tool end with the dial and the other end with the rod and the flat spot fit on the inside lip of the drum. You then loosen the set screw on the dial end and rotate the dial until it does not move, Yes you have to be directly across the middle. Also remember that you now divide the reading on the dial, and lets say it is 40 which is 40 over. You then divide that  in half and then set the dial at the 20 mark becasue you are only doing one shoe at a time.

 

You then put the tool on the spindle or axle shaft shaft and then either use the half moon adjuster on the backing plate to move the top of the shoe out and according to your specs for your car the distance at the top to the rod is either 6 or 12 thousands, then do the same for the eccentric, You must know the correct  spacing for the toe and heel for your car. You use a flat feeler gage to make the spacing.  So again how did you determine the inside diameter of ther drum when the drum is off ther car. and to know when the shoes are set up properly.

 

Please answer the question. I know a person that was using the tool you use and then found the Ammco tool and discovered that your tool was way off the mark and the Ammco tool gave him a proper set the first time.

 

Rich hartung

desoto1939@aol.com 

 

 

I've used both.  I have both.  To answer your question, you touch one of the shoes to the drum (while it's on), so it's just touching the drum...then you use that as a reference for the drum diameter.  I've used  both in sequence, and I prefer the homemade tool for ease of use.  But hey, you do what you like 👍 

[Sam Buchanan]

20 minutes ago, desoto1939 said:

The correct way to use the Ammco tool is that yes you use the tool end with the dial and the other end with the rod and the flat spot fit on the inside lip of the drum. You then loosen the set screw on the dial end and rotate the dial until it does not move, Yes you have to be directly across the middle. Also remember that you now divide the reading on the dial, and lets say it is 40 which is 40 over. You then divide that  in half and then set the dial at the 20 mark becasue you are only doing one shoe at a time.

 

You then put the tool on the spindle or axle shaft shaft and then either use the half moon adjuster on the backing plate to move the top of the shoe out and according to your specs for your car the distance at the top to the rod is either 6 or 12 thousands, then do the same for the eccentric, You must know the correct  spacing for the toe and heel for your car. You use a flat feeler gage to make the spacing.  So again how did you determine the inside diameter of ther drum when the drum is off ther car. and to know when the shoes are set up properly.

 

Please answer the question. I know a person that was using the tool you use and then found the Ammco tool and discovered that your tool was way off the mark and the Ammco tool gave him a proper set the first time.

 

Rich hartung

desoto1939@aol.com 

 

Rich, your preference and appreciation for the legacy tools is well documented. However, it appears you have not carefully read my description of how the ID of the drum can be indirectly, but accurately, measured with the home-made tool. Bacelaw has this figured out and is offering a direct comparison of how the two types of tools are used. It appears that you are stating his technique is flawed, but I think your understanding of how to use the simple tool needs enhancing. Please reread my post and visualize what is occurring while using the tool.

 

It is good to have choices, if using the antique tools brings enjoyment to the hobby that is a good thing. But we have options for accomplishing the same objective, and that is also a good thing. 

[desoto1939]

sam: Thank you for the full explanation of how you get the full diameter of the drum.  I am not putting down the tool that was designed by Keith. If it works for you and everyone else that is great.  Yes the tool price is a great purchase for the average day home mechanic.  

 

I originall purchased my Ammco brake tool that cam in the metal box for around $75  and then was able to get the Miller MT19 full set with the 7 sleeves for around $125 and then purchased the other brae tool the tru-brake shoe lining cutter for around $125.  So I got all of the tools for a little over $300 as compared to $40-$600 at todays prices just for the Ammco tool.

 

I do see guys on Ebay selling the AMMCO tool for $600-700.  The person is buying up all of these tools when cheap and then jacking up the price and trying to make a killing on everyone he sells.  As we can all see these high priced tools are still for sale by this seller.  You can price yourself right out of the market.

 

Since I do not need the new tool I was not knowledgeable of how the tool was designed to work and that is why I have asked the questions.

 

Others might have the same question but no one ever stated how the tool was correctly used or even put and instruction sheet out into the technical section on the Forum.

 

I have placed a long time ago how the Ammco and the Miller tools are used to let members know about the tool.

 

Is anyone going to put out some information on how to use the newer tool?

 

Thanks,

 

Rich hartung

desoto1939@aol.com