E37Bruco Posted January 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) While I kill time till my next free day to tinker. What's up with this wonkey shift pattern lol 2 - 5 - R N 3 - 4 - 1 I'm guessing 1 is a granny low just for loads on a grade? Stay in 2-5 mainly? Edited January 16, 2022 by E37Bruco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47 dodge 1.5 ton Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 Your 4th and 5th are throwing me off? I believe those to be reversed unless there is another 5speed in that truck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 I agree...4th and 5th are wrong...reversed...unless the trans is a overdrive trans....a very very rare option in the heavy series trucks. I have a 1951 2-1/2 ton overdrive 5 speed Dodge truck that has a goofy shift pattern...I only drove it once.(1987) on the high way in OD...totally gutless... I'll have to read the owners manual on that odd shift pattern. My 4 tonner's use a Clark 290 with the typical 5 speed. 2 - 5 - R N 3 - 4 - 1.....Hardly ever use 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/14/2022 at 5:00 PM, E37Bruco said: DodgeB4ya, What would be the difference between the Carter fuel pumps M859SA and M859S? I've found a rebuild kit for the M859S, also in the 53 B-4 service book it says the TA came with that one. I bought a new M859SA fuel pump NOS in the box. The FUEL pump in that box was stamped M859S. Not M859SA...That is as much as I know. There are at least three different styles of fuel pumps used on the big Moly Block engines.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallytoo Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 5 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said: I agree...4th and 5th are wrong...reversed...unless the trans is a overdrive trans....a very very rare option in the heavy series trucks. I have a 1951 2-1/2 ton overdrive 5 speed Dodge truck that has a goofy shift pattern...I only drove it once.(1987) on the high way in OD...totally gutless... I'll have to read the owners manual on that odd shift pattern. My 4 tonner's use a Clark 290 with the typical 5 speed. 2 - 5 - R N 3 - 4 - 1.....Hardly ever use 1st. i’m confused. you show the same shift pattern as bruco does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E37Bruco Posted January 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 I can't find anything official, but these labels have been on here for as long as Ive known, and that's how every guy I've talked to has driven her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E37Bruco Posted January 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 I need to degrease this case and get a better look at it. Being a fire engine nothing maybe B-4-TA "standard" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47 dodge 1.5 ton Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 Yep— that looks different and those stamps are most likely correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E37Bruco Posted January 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 Like I said, gotta clean it up still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, wallytoo said: i’m confused. you show the same shift pattern as bruco does. I screwed up...was up too late. The shift pattern on my 4 tonners is this.. 2-4-R 3-5-1 This is the typical dodge 5 speed non overdrive shift pattern. I cannot find any printed OD shift pattern for the Dodge trucks... It would be odd to see a OD trans in a fire truck with the goofy shift pattern od's have. But who knows...fire trucks are custom built. Edited January 16, 2022 by Dodgeb4ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 4 hours ago, E37Bruco said: I need to degrease this case and get a better look at it. Being a fire engine nothing maybe B-4-TA "standard" That looks to be the factory 5 speed "New Process" transmission. Only thing different is the E-braked drum and band is missing....probably on the transfer case. Two transmissions were available on the "T" model of DT. ***New Process 88450 5 speed Std ***New Process 88440 5 speed OD The date the trans was made can be found on the top shift cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallytoo Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Dodgeb4ya said: The shift pattern on my 4 tonners is this.. 2-4-R 3-5-1 This is the typical dodge 5 speed non overdrive shift pattern. i wish my F had the 5 speed, if only because it's pretty cool/rare. can't really complain though; with the 4 speed and the 2 speed rear, it's very driveable/useable. and, even then, i rarely use 1st gear unless freighted or on a rough back road. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent B3B Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 12 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said: I agree...4th and 5th are wrong...reversed...unless the trans is a overdrive trans....a very very rare option in the heavy series trucks. I have a 1951 2-1/2 ton overdrive 5 speed Dodge truck that has a goofy shift pattern... Hayden has that pattern in his 2.5 also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 50 minutes ago, Brent B3B said: Hayden has that pattern in his 2.5 also This is the typical Dodge 5 speed standard shift pattern with out overdrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47 dodge 1.5 ton Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 The 3 ton we have is; 1-2-4-R n 3-5 I’m not sure if that is OD, but it shifts smooth except 1 & 2nd, can’t downshift less than 3rd when moving. I thought that tranny came out of a late 50’s tank truck but can’t remember. I know that I switched it to several trucks and now is behind a LA motor and bell housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E37Bruco Posted January 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 Man talk about a transmission that brings up no Google search result haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 Best way to figure it out...drive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E37Bruco Posted January 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 Gonna do a compression test on this motor tomorrow. I can't remember if I said but I'm currently not authorized to spend any money on this truck. Just inspecting, testing, and creating a refurb budget to present at March's meeting. I'm not sure of the condition of the battery, haven't had time to top off the cells and check specific gravity but she's reading 6.4v after an hour on a charger. If I have to use a 12v battery to bump the starter for the compression test, is it still positive ground and negative to the starter terminal? No other electical system will be in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 Yes, keep the polarity the same. If you are boosting it with 12 volts, either disconnect the 6 volt battery, or only connect the jumper cables while cranking. This will avoid over charging the 6 volt battery from the 12 volt battery between cranking bursts. As long as all other 6 volt electrical systems are turned off, or disconnected, during this you should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E37Bruco Posted January 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 I would either use the 6 volt or a 12 volt only not both together. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los_Control Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 Be interesting to see what you get for compression. Without going back to the beginning I do not know if you have ever started the engine yet. These old engines the rings tend to gum up and stick to the pistons, not spring out and seal against the cylinder as they should. Same time the old gummy sludgey oil will make the valves stick open. Rotate engine, valve opens, the sludge holds the valve open as the spring is just not strong enough to pull it closed. My first 218 had 0 compression on 5 cylinders ... all stuck valves. Pulling the head off, I could use penetrating oil & push the valves back down with my thumb or a plastic mallet ... a few rotations and all were working fine again, except for one was more stubborn but more work and it freed up fine. If it is only 1 or 2 cylinders with no compression, possible it will start and valves will free up as engine warms up. Without pulling the head. Now it would still have stuck rings. MM oil or atf/acetone mix is really good to use here and soak the rings for a few days so they release from the pistons and seal/rotate as they should. If you can get over 60 psi compression, will probably start. Then a few heat cycles the compression should improve. I just think of Fire trucks as low mile vehicles and they were well maintained. Your engine may need a rebuild, possible it just needs oiled up good and get it running and it will come back to life. The first compression check I think is critical, write it down and log it .... work on it and check your progress ... if you can start it and a few heat cycles and check it again. This compression checking as you advance will tell you the condition of the engine and if it needs expensive machine work. You still may pull it for repaint & reseal. Maybe re-ring and lap the valves while there. Zero compression is probably stuck valves, low compression probably stuck rings. Do not be disappointed or discouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E37Bruco Posted January 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 The motor hasn't run in 2-5 years. It only has like 30k miles on the truck lol. Besides the last 16 years of neglect she has been cared for thoroughly. I can spin the crank by hand and hear the air coming out of the spark plug holes. Shall see, ill post my findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 That engine will fire right up and run perfect with good fuel and ignition. Change the oil and filter too of course. Those Nickel/Chrome Moly Blocks are a whole different breed of engine compared to the smaller 23" and 25" engines. A very heavy duty severe service MoPar flathead weighing 1100 lbs complete with bell housing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E37Bruco Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 I'm very excited for the day I get to turn the key on this with spark. This morning's random thought process while I drive into work, with how long this motor has sat is there anything I should do to oil the system before I bump crank it for the compression start? I don't want to scratch up the cylinder walls or something else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los_Control Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Sitting between 2-5 years probably need nothing.` I personally would add some light oil to the cylinders & let it soak a few days before turning it over by hand Marvel mystery oil is good and what I used on my truck motor. Thin enough it will get down into the ring landings and lubricate the rings helping to free them up. Also thin enough that if you let it sit will most likely leak past the pistons and into the oil ... that is fine. If you pour in the oil then start turning the engine over, much of it will get pushed out the exhaust valves and into the muffler .... wont hurt anything just not real productive and muffler may smoke awhile as it warms up and burns the oil out of it. Currently doing a engine swap on my wife car, wrecking yard told me he had the engine in the shed for 8-10 years ... definitely going to add oil to cylinders. All I had available was some 5/30 engine oil and used it. Let it sit a few days on the engine stand then turned the engine over by hand, repeated the process a few times over a couple weeks. Even though I let it sit after adding thick oil, it never did leak past the pistons and a lot of it got pushed out the exhaust. Just made a mess in the garage I had to clean up, but the cylinders did get lubricated. If it was installed all of the oil would go to the muffler. A thin oil is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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