Jacquiline, My 1946 Plymouth Special Deluxe

[Sniper]

lol,

 

f gas was getting into your oil the dipstick would smell of gas and you oil level would be high.  Change your oil as well, if it's full of gas it's not going to be a good thing.

[OUTFXD]

23 hours ago, Sniper said:

lol,

 

f gas was getting into your oil the dipstick would smell of gas and you oil level would be high.  Change your oil as well, if it's full of gas it's not going to be a good thing.

 

 

Got the oil. Got the filter Ran some seafoam to clean out the oil passages. and now she wont start,  again.   Been to the starter shop 4 times and they swear there is nothing wrong with the starter.

[OUTFXD]

On that topic,  Do you guys have a source for Starters for these cars?   I was talking to and old guy on the east coast about a "Restored" starter.  When I asked if the internals had been gone trough he stopped responding to my messages.

[Bryan]

23 hours ago, OUTFXD said:

On that topic,  Do you guys have a source for Starters for these cars?   I was talking to and old guy on the east coast about a "Restored" starter.  When I asked if the internals had been gone trough he stopped responding to my messages.

Nearest Listed in Rock Auto is $136 for 1950 Plymouth Deluxe.   49 and below not.   Don't know if 1950 and above would fit.

[9 foot box]

   My Hollander book says that a Plymouth and Dodge 1946-55 starters interchange. I would check and clean the wiring connections for the starter button on both ends and the amp gauge connections. That’s a good price for a starter, but I think you have a different problem, because it seems to be sporadic. Humid conditions can compromise a constant connection to ground or power. I had a similar problem, so that’s my recommendation. Amp gauges can go bad also. But you can jump the terminals, as a test. Rick D.

[OUTFXD]

On 6/20/2022 at 9:44 PM, 9 foot box said:

   My Hollander book says that a Plymouth and Dodge 1946-55 starters interchange. I would check and clean the wiring connections for the starter button on both ends and the amp gauge connections. That’s a good price for a starter, but I think you have a different problem, because it seems to be sporadic. Humid conditions can compromise a constant connection to ground or power. I had a similar problem, so that’s my recommendation. Amp gauges can go bad also. But you can jump the terminals, as a test. Rick D.

I have spent several hundred dollars and many MANY hours chasing this Gremlin(tm).  I have replaced the battery leads with new 0/1 gauge leads, added additional grounds to body and starter, two different solenoids, a new key switch, a new battery "just in case" and a new start button. I have had the starter to thee local car electrics hause 4 times and they tell me there is nothing wrong with the starter. each time I get 2-3 good starts and it starts gasping for air. This last time I think I burned out a solenoid. (Not sure I mentioned it,  but if you apply jump leads they shoot sparks a good 4 - 6 inchs and will weld the lead to the battery terminal leading me to believe some kind of internal short)

 

Sorry if I come off abrasive but I have been completely frustrated by this  and am now loosing out on summer drive time.  Its not  Rocket Science, Its Babys first electrical circuit:  a battery, a switch, a motor, and two wires. 

[Bryan]

29 minutes ago, OUTFXD said:

Sorry if I come off abrasive but I have been completely frustrated by this  and am now loosing out on summer drive time.  Its not  Rocket Science, Its Babys first electrical circuit:  a battery, a switch, a motor, and two wires. 

At least you're not bouncing Parts Books off the wall yet. Feel for you.  Like when I was trying to get that freakin crank hub off.  ?

[kencombs]

Have you done the voltage drop diagnostics as outlined in one of Snipers excellent posts?  If not, it is a great way to isolate such hair-pullers. 

[OUTFXD]

Sniper talked me through Voltage Drop tests a while back. I am not familier with electrics as they have spent the majority of my life finding new and interesting ways to shorten my lifespan.  So I avoid them when possible.

[kencombs]

2 hours ago, OUTFXD said:

Sniper talked me through Voltage Drop tests a while back. I am not familier with electrics as they have spent the majority of my life finding new and interesting ways to shorten my lifespan.  So I avoid them when possible.

results?

[Sam Buchanan]

4 hours ago, OUTFXD said:

......but if you apply jump leads they shoot sparks a good 4 - 6 inchs and will weld the lead to the battery terminal.....

 

I'm trying to visualize exactly what you are describing. Jump leads from what to what??

[OUTFXD]

Battery to battery.  Jump starting the car or bench testing the starter

[OUTFXD]

1 hour ago, kencombs said:

results?

Ground to battery .12

Battery to Solonoid .07

Solonoid 8.01 at rest.      3.30 starting <??>

Solonoid to battery .12

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, OUTFXD said:

Battery to battery.  Jump starting the car or bench testing the starter

 

Are you jumping a 12v battery to a 6v? Or have the + and - reversed? Just connecting jumper cables shouldn't create fireworks.

[OUTFXD]

I've been religous about making sure the battery cables are correct (Juming from a negative ground to a possative ground can be quite confusing)  I have jumped 12v but generally jump 6v or 8v so not to fry any vintage electrics. Sparks fly no matter what I jump from. 

 

Even the electric shop guy welded the leads from his bench to the starter after I made sure to comment it was a 6v starter.  He played it off as it was normal.

[Sam Buchanan]

3 hours ago, OUTFXD said:

I've been religous about making sure the battery cables are correct (Juming from a negative ground to a possative ground can be quite confusing)  I have jumped 12v but generally jump 6v or 8v so not to fry any vintage electrics. Sparks fly no matter what I jump from. 

 

Even the electric shop guy welded the leads from his bench to the starter after I made sure to comment it was a 6v starter.  He played it off as it was normal.

 

You guys are getting the polarity crossed up! There is no way to do any welding when a jumper battery is hooked up right.

 

Forget the positive ground deal. Just hook the negative post of the 6v jumper battery to the negative post of your car's battery, and positive to positive. No fireworks will occur.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[SteveR]

12 hours ago, Bryan said:

At least you're not bouncing Parts Books off the wall yet. Feel for you.  Like when I was trying to get that freakin crank hub off.  ?

And me in trying to figure out what tranny I have. Looks like a 39 case with 40-41 gears. AGhhhhh

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by SteveR

[SteveR]

12 hours ago, OUTFXD said:

Ground to battery .12

Battery to Solonoid .07

Solonoid 8.01 at rest.      3.30 starting <??>

Solonoid to battery .12

 

I assume you are running a 12vdc Battery?

car at rest, Key on refer to diagram:

multimeter set to vdc

Red to ground 12 vdc

yellow to ground -o-vdc

magenta to ground -0-vdc

 

KEY OFF MULTIMETER set to Ohms

Starter SWITCH to Starter Sol (low) reading .02

Starter to Sol (low) reading .02

This checks to see if you have a broken wire or bad connection

Key OFF, connect across Starter Switch should be low reading .02 ohms

 

Key off meter on vdc connect Starter Switch from Key to Ground should be -0-vdc

[kencombs]

2 hours ago, SteveR said:

 

I assume you are running a 12vdc Battery?

car at rest, Key on refer to diagram:

multimeter set to vdc

Red to ground 12 vdc

yellow to ground -o-vdc

magenta to ground -0-vdc

 

KEY OFF MULTIMETER set to Ohms

Starter SWITCH to Starter Sol (low) reading .02

Starter to Sol (low) reading .02

This checks to see if you have a broken wire or bad connection

Key OFF, connect across Starter Switch should be low reading .02 ohms

 

Key off meter on vdc connect Starter Switch from Key to Ground should be -0-vdc

 

I believe he is still at 6V + grnd.    With a huge drop when starting.  Source of drop still unknown.

 

OP:  Immediately after attempting a start, are any of the connections warm or hot to touch?   That is an easy way to spot high resistance joints.

[OUTFXD]

6v pos ground at the moment, Planning an upgrade to 12v Neg ground.

 

Cant say I noticed hot connections but I also wasnt looking for them.

 

At the moment engine wont turn over.  My last attempted start, I believe I fried the  solenoid.  Tried the two new ones and would only get a load rapid clicking from the solenoid.

[OUTFXD]

4 hours ago, SteveR said:

 

 

This checks to see if you have a broken wire or bad connection

 

 

oh common now! The previous owners where WAY to professional for that nonsense <jk>

[Sam Buchanan]

Uh oh......looks like it's time for some wiring replacement. Yank out all the flakey stuff and start over. 

[SteveR]

20 hours ago, OUTFXD said:

Ground to battery .12

Battery to Solonoid .07

Solonoid 8.01 at rest.      3.30 starting <??>

Solonoid to battery .12

Are you saying you have 12vdc ground to battery or 0.12vdc?

[OUTFXD]

1 hour ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Uh oh......looks like it's time for some wiring replacement. Yank out all the flakey stuff and start over. 

already in the works.  I have a professionally built wire harness complete with modern Blade style fuse box. I am planning on installing it at the same time as the 12v update and converting to Electronic Ignition so all the wiring is done up and tucked away with nothing left hanging out in the wind.

[OUTFXD]

6 minutes ago, SteveR said:

Are you saying you have 12vdc ground to battery or 0.12vdc?

Erm... i think its 0.12 ohms resistance. Sorry, my short term memory seems to be developing some issues.  At least I dont remember having a memory problem.   anyways its 0.12 something. Sniper walked me through it.

 

details in this thread,  middle to bottom of page 3.

 

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