49 P18 transmission problem

[808P18]

Transmission isn’t engaging.

 

Here’s what happened. While warming up in neutral, without doing anything, I hear a large BANG! And it felt like someone shifted hard into first gear. After that, the shifter will shift through all gears but not engage any gears. 
 

There’s no leaks under the car, and when I popped the hood, I couldn’t see anything out of place except there looks to be a spring that’s broken that sits on the steering shaft, is this something that broke and is not preventing the transmission from working? 
 

I don’t know where to start to solve this. Any help would be greatly appreciated! 

[Sniper]

That spring is part of your shifter mechanism.  It being broke probably isn't helping.  If you are going to go to the effort of replacing that spring, and you should, I would suggest you give a very close look at all the bushings and such in your shifter linkages and replace them all since you will be tearing it down pretty far just to replace that spring.  Here's a shot of the relevant drawing in the parts manual.  Fortunately, you do not have to disassemble the steering column to replace it.

 

 

[Sniper]

The above pic is out of the 49 parts manual, doesn't show the linkages so I dug into a later master catalog for this one.

 

 

[808P18]

Thanks for the reply and parts diagram. Most likely I’ll be replacing that spring. Hopefully I’ll be able to identify why I can’t get it to engage. 

[keithb7]

Linkage rods and some pivot points have adjustments. Threaded rods, nuts, washers.  Parts will wear, linkages need adjustment periodically.  Rods way out of spec, you may not be able shift at all. Or you may experience partial engagement problems. General wear slop ocurs and the intended full length travel of rods (leading to gears) may not be happening.

Edited September 10, 2021 by keithb7

[808P18]

5 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Linkage rods and some pivot points have adjustments. Threaded rods, nuts, washers.  Parts will wear, linkages need adjustment periodically.  Rods way out of spec, you may not be able shift at all. Or you may experience partial engagement problems. General slop happens and the intended full length travel of rods gears may not be happenning.

I just bought this last week, when I did, it only had 1st and reverse. After finding this forum I was able to adjust the shift rod so I could engage 2nd and 3rd. So I completely understand the adjustment pieces as it took going back and forth a bit adjust just one nut, however to have a loud bang and lose shifting without doing anything is what has me stumped. Nothing looks out of ordinary or obviously broken. 
 

 

[joecoozie]

Where did the "loud bang" come from - what area of the car? Under the hood, under the car....

Knowing that may help in diagnosing what could be the problem.

Also, you might want to try shifting the car into gear by getting under it and disconnect the linkages from the transmission then manually shift through the gears using the part (the bell crank in the illustration above) that the linkage(s) connect to on the transmission. By doing this you bypass the linkage(s). If it engages into the gears then I would suspect linkage issues. If it doesn't engage then I would suspect transmission/other issues

[808P18]

11 minutes ago, joecoozie said:

Where did the "loud bang" come from - what area of the car? Under the hood, under the car....

Knowing that may help in diagnosing what could be the problem.

Also, you might want to try shifting the car into gear by getting under it and disconnect the linkages from the transmission then manually shift through the gears using the part (the bell crank in the illustration above) that the linkage(s) connect to on the transmission. By doing this you bypass the linkage(s). If it engages into the gears then I would suspect linkage issues. If it doesn't engage then I would suspect transmission/other issues

It came from under the car/hood. It was very loud so it was hard to pin point, however my girlfriend came running out of the house as she thought I banged another car to give you an idea of how loud it was. 
 

I’ll start with that linkage inspection process, appreciate the feedback on where to look and diagnose. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by 808P18

[kencombs]

I can’t think of anything that would sound and feel as described when in neutral and idling except the flywheel and clutch area.  Maybe pull the lower cover and have a look?

[808P18]

1 minute ago, kencombs said:

I can’t think of anything that would sound and feel as described when in neutral and idling except the flywheel and clutch area.  Maybe pull the lower cover and have a look?

Thanks for the reply, I haven’t experienced anything like this before, being in neutral should have had it disengaged, but it was something spinning fast  that made contact enough to create that bang and lurch.  I totally understood the not being able to shift into 2 & 3. And was able to fix that just fine. But this baffles me and honestly sounded like the transmission exploded. I expected to see oil all under the but nothing. I just pray it’s not catastrophic! Thanks again! 
 

My manuals are on the way so I can get a better idea of all the transmission parts. 

[kencombs]

Did the car actually move when it banged, or just make noise?  If it moved, the shift lever could have moved somehow pushing one of the sliding elements (low/rev or 2nd/3rd depending on which was selected) into engagement.  And, since it wouldn't go all the way, snapped something.  Is there any possibility that the shift lever or linkage was moved somehow?

[joecoozie]

1 hour ago, kencombs said:

Did the car actually move when it banged, or just make noise?  If it moved, the shift lever could have moved somehow pushing one of the sliding elements (low/rev or 2nd/3rd depending on which was selected) into engagement.  And, since it wouldn't go all the way, snapped something.  Is there any possibility that the shift lever or linkage was moved somehow?

He did say the car lurched after the banging noise - "bang and lurch" from above post

It doesn't sound (no pun intended) good, like you said

[808P18]

It closely resembled dropping a revved engine into first. I also know I jumped a little so I can’t be sure how much, that’s as close as I can remember, and my hands were not on the steering wheel or shifter at the time, only my feet on clutch and brake. That’s how I knew it was not engaged at the time. 
 

Worst case scenario, are these transmissions even rebuildable? Or do I have to find an old one?

[joecoozie]

They are rebuildable as long as the case isn't cracked/damaged.

If you need to find another one they are not that difficult to find.

One other thing: I would check the throwout bearing, too.

[Merle Coggins]

13 hours ago, 808P18 said:

It closely resembled dropping a revved engine into first. I also know I jumped a little so I can’t be sure how much, that’s as close as I can remember, and my hands were not on the steering wheel or shifter at the time, only my feet on clutch and brake. That’s how I knew it was not engaged at the time. 
 

Worst case scenario, are these transmissions even rebuildable? Or do I have to find an old one?

 

You had your foot depressing the clutch pedal? If so, even it it jumped into gear it shouldn’t have lurched forward. I think it’s time to get under the car and start your inspection with the clutch, then work your way back. 

[808P18]

Thank you to everyone for your insight and replies. So far everything looks intact, so I’ll have to remove some covers to look inside. I get the service manuals on Monday so I’ll get it up on stands and see if I can get more info, however with limited knowledge I’ll be looking for obvious damage or broken/out or place parts. 
 

Really appreciate all the feedback, this has been quite frustrating just having bought this and maybe the seller was hiding a transmission problem. 

[808P18]

Here’s the latest, there’s a new issue now.    
 

The recap - 

 

First time - I started the car, pushed in the clutch, foot on the brake and shifter in neutral. Without anything being touch, I head a loud BANG! and the car lurched forward as if I just popped the clutch. The clutch pedal was pushed in and it was in neutral. When I started it up again, it would rev and shift through the gears but wouldn’t engage.   

 

Second time - I cleaned up the car as best as I could so I could inspect all linkage and areas. 
 

I could not find anything disconnected. 

 

I started the car and took a video to document the second time. I stated the car, clutch in and brake on, same as the last time. Started up fine and when I went into 1st, it revved and then CLUNK, I repeated it three times, I don’t know why, maybe just stubborn. And it was the same result, Rev, Release Clutch, CLANG! It would move maybe an inch each time. Video won’t load cause it’s too large so link is here - 

 

So here I am with a car that won’t engage. Any suggestions? 

 

I want to note that both times, the issues were different, there was no CLANG the first time, it simply revved and wouldn’t engage. 

 

Where should I start next? Thanks in advance!

[Sniper]

Sounds like something in the trans is broken.

[Booger]

I would start with turning the DS in nuetral by hand

rear wheels off the ground of course or discontect at tran

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Booger
spel

[Booger]

If you got a "leaker:" you gotta check fluids

[808P18]

12 minutes ago, Booger said:

I would start with turning the DS in nuetral by hand

rear wheels off the ground of course or discontect at tran

 

Will do, thanks for the advice! 

[808P18]

7 minutes ago, Booger said:

If you got a "leaker:" you gotta check fluids

Thankfully it has only dripped a couple of drops over the two weeks I’ve had it. 

[808P18]

15 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Sounds like something in the trans is broken.

I’m afraid of that, I sure hope it’s not too big of an issue.  What bad luck, only drove it 2 miles since I’ve got it! 

[Sniper]

Well, I suppose it could be something in the clutch as well.

[kencombs]

47 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Well, I suppose it could be something in the clutch as well.

Now that you mention it, a hub broken out of the  clutch disk could do that.

 

I'm still recommending the clutch access panel come off.