Agreed versus Stated value Car Insurance- Specialty carrier vs regular car insurance carrier

[desoto1939]

OK OK for all of you car owners that have used you regular car insurance company thinking that you are saving money and have an agreed values on your car It is time to offically contact a Specialty Antique car Insurance carrier.

 

I discussed this last year.  Your regular car insurance carrier does not know anything about antique cars and they willdepreciate a car just like your regular car if it get totalled plain and simple

 

If youuse  companies like JC Taylor, Grunday, Haggerty they all have an official Agreed Value policy.  So you set the price you want to value your car at so lets same you have a 1946 Dodge Deluxe and it is still original and some what fair condition.  You think it is worth 30000. And you put in the policy and ask for 30K of Agreed value policy.  They all know what the car values are based on being a fully restores car all the way done to a diamond in the rust parts car..  They will then ask you for proof that the car is worht 30K and ask for pictures and also and documentation such as pictures and fully written report from a Licensed appriaser so verify that the car is worth 30K.

 

At this point they can accept the request to insurr for 30K or reget and thne inform you based on their input from you history and picture that the car can only be insured for 7500 and they wil lthen state you the cost for the policy. You then have to either agree or look for another company...

 

If you accept and adhere to th epolicy specifics such as it must be stored in a garge and also locked inthe garage on your property, etc.  If the car gets totaled becasue of a fire or is hit in an accident and is totalled then they are required to pay you directly the amount of $7500  which the policy stated becsue it was an Agrred value not a Stated value.

 

This is all you are going to get nothing less.  So lets same the car is totalled but you want to keep the car then they can offer you an option to purcahse the car and that changes some other issues.

 

Yes there are stipulations with collector car insurance, can not drive on a daily basis to use as your everyday car to go to and from work, Should be used to go to car events and car club events. Most insurance policy

is no longer have a mileage limit and or that you can not drive the car an night.  Most state the the car has to be garaged in a closed and locke garage, can not be under a carport.If you are on an extend tour for a week or at a car convention the car does not need to be garaged. They understand that you are traveling to and from the event and the car is fully covered.

 

So get a quote for your antique car get an agreed valued not a Stated value [policy read the policy completely and understand it.  If question then call the carrier to get clarity on you policy and questions.

 

I have coverage from Grundy collector car Insurance, unlimited mileage full coverage medical and all and parts coverage. The annual cost is $175 per year.  That breaks down to being under $15 per moth and my car has an agreed value of $22k.  each year the amount of coverage value is increased. 

 

 

So if you think that $15 a month is expensive then roll the dice with the local car insurance agent and pray real hard everynight that nothing happens to your car becsue the $15 a month was too much to pay.  You pay upwards to thousands to insure your regular car and the people inthe car so why not the same people in you antique car.

 

The antique car has more of a change to be in an accident becasue of the age, not seat bels no airbags, lack of turn signal no antilocking brakes, small stop light or only six volt and small dots on the car.  So think of all the possibilties of driving your old antique and how much do you value your car or truck and the people in your car or truck.

 

Hope this makes some people become aware of the potential issue with the use of your regular carrier versus and antique car specalist company.

 

Any comment or question are welcome but please look into what you are paying for and not wait until it to late to change and cover you buts and the butts or your family and friend.

 

I have been in this hobby for 35 years and have attend many seminars on this topic at the AACA annual meeting in Philadelphia and this topic comes up every year.

 

I hope this posting clears up the issue of using a Specialty Car carrier versus your regular car insurance carrier such as Geico, Allstate, State farms, etc.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com 

[allbizz49]

Limiting me as to when I can drive or where I store my car is a deal breaker. Why the limitations? My old boss used Haggerty and boy were they picky about pictures and documentation. I guess it's great for fair weather flyers but I'll stick with State Farm. I enjoy driving around the orchards and fields during warm summer nights too much. I don't get all of the restrictions. 

[desoto1939]

The restrictions are there becasue the full coverage for your antique car is cheaper first off.  So lets say you have a 35 year old antique car and the agreed valued is $35k.  You have an accident and the car is totalled.  You get $35K from the insurance company settled and you get the full amount.

 

So lets say you have the same car and not with an agreed amount but stated amount, you think the car is worth 35K.  The car is 35 years old and is a plain jane car plymouth nothing fancy same car as above first sentance.  The car according to the blue book value of a regular 35 year old car in perfect condition is not even in the bluebook value.

 

Figure some rust inthe body age of the paint,etc accoding to the regular car insurance compnay they took your money to insure it but now the car is 35 years old and accoding to their books it has no value its just an old outdated not modern vehecile and might be worth $50 and now its totaled.  So you paid the full insurance billover the years and you walk away with fifty dollar but you got to drive when ever you wanted day night bad or good weather stored it out in the rain snow sleet and hail and it has damage from a hail storm.  It was no value but you got your wish that you can do what ever your heart desired with the car.  But in the end all the hard work, new parts and you only get $50.

 

But with some restriction the same car that has been garaged and maintain and gets totalinthe same accident you walk away with $35000 and not $50 just becasue you had to obey and follow some rules.

 

We can not always have it your way but if you go to a hamburge fast food you can have it your way for the same price.  Our generation is spoiled and they want everything their way and do not want to have rules.

 

Life is made up of rules some we lik and some we do not. 

 

So i guess if you wanted to rob a bank just becasue you want to rob the bank it is ok to do so and not have to pay any price for the robbery.  No this is an illegal act. So we all have rule and regulation that we have to follow. If we do not then their is total Anarchy even with old cars and their insuracne.

 

Rich Hartung 

[Robert5]

I'm not sure the OP understands this:

 

 Stated value does not mean the stated value of your policy. 

Ultimately it means the stated value of the official  value sources that the insurance industry uses.

  The Agreed Value policy used by Hagerty as an example is the superior policy for the collector car owner. The reason is that whatever the amount that you and the insurance company agreed to insure the car for is exactly what the insurance company will pay you If your car is totalled. You know what you will get it you car is totalled.

  The stated value policy.....does not provide that. Regardless what your policy says, the insurance company is only obligated to pay off, in the event of a total loss, the stated value of a source !like 

NADA or Kelly Blue Book or whatever source said insurance company uses.

 

now Hagerty uses Agreed Value policy, as does Parrish/Heacock does. Several others also do.

JC Taylor does not, they use Stated Value  Policy. I'm not sure about Grundy but I think they use  Stated Value Policy. Other companies in the industry use the Stated Value Policy too. Edited-----Grundy does now use Agreed  Valued Policy.----Edited

 

  SO, remember, Stated Value means you do not have an exact figure you will receive in the event of a total loss. And Agreed Value means you do have an exact number you will receive it you car is totalled.

It is the opposite of what the names might lead you to believe initially.

  Always ask your Collector Car insurer if their policy is Agreed Value of Stated Value.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Robert5

[hkestes41]

I use Haggarty for my 37 Plymouth coupe. When I took out the policy I had to provide photos of the front, rear, left/right sides, front 3/4 from both sides, interior and engine. I did not have to provide any documentation as to an appraisal. 

 

The Agreed Value policy is for $30K. They asked how many miles a year I would be driving and I stated 8K miles. There are no limits on where or when the car is driven only that it can not be used in racing or as a ride share vehicle.

 

The coverages are as below.

1: Bodily Injury Liability: $100,000 Per Person / $300,000 Per Accident

2: Property Damage Liability: $100,000 Per Accident

3: Medical Payments: $2,500 Per Person Per Accident

4: Personal Injury Protection Benefits: $2,500 Per Person Per Accident

5: Uninsured Motorists Coverage: $100,000 Per Person / $300,000 Per Accident

6: Uninsured Motorists Property Damage: $25,000 Per Accident

7: Zero deductible 

All for $395 a year. 

 

For an additional $45 a year I have membership in their Hagerty Drivers Club which covers unlimited number of roadside assistances and unlimited number of 20 mile flatbed towings. Another $25 per year would bump the towing to 60 miles. 

 

Much better coverage and at a lesser cost than our daily drivers.

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by hkestes41

[desoto1939]

Update: JC Taylor uses Agreed value so does Grundy and Congdon and skelly specialty insurance. I have had all three of these companies.  So always ask the question if the car is a total loss then you will get the Agreed value of the car as per the dollar amount that the policy was written for and Agreed to by both you and the Insurance company with no deprecation or the value is calculated against the NADA or Kelly Blue Book.

 

J c Taylor is in the town that I grew up in so know them very well and was talking to them about this issue at a car show over this weekend, so they do have agreed value policies.

 

Yes ago some of the insurance companies had mileage restrictions but i do not see these restriction anymore.

 

Grudy does not care how many miles you put on the car each year.  You might belong to AACA and they have many regional tours so the mileage will increase as you travel to these events, participate int he event and drive home.

 

Always contact your carrier to clarify any questions on coverage do not wait until its tooooooo late when then you file a claim.

 

Rich Hartung

 

Rich Hartung

[bluebanshee]

1 hour ago, hkestes41 said:

I use Haggarty for my 37 Plymouth coupe. When I took out the policy I had to provide photos of the front, rear, left/right sides, front 3/4 from both sides, interior and engine. I did not have to provide any documentation as to an appraisal. 

 

The Agreed Value policy is for $30K. They asked how many miles a year I would be driving and I stated 8K miles. There are no limits on where or when the car is driven only that it can not be used in racing or as a ride share vehicle.

 

The coverages are as below.

1: Bodily Injury Liability: $100,000 Per Person / $300,000 Per Accident

2: Property Damage Liability: $100,000 Per Accident

3: Medical Payments: $2,500 Per Person Per Accident

4: Personal Injury Protection Benefits: $2,500 Per Person Per Accident

5: Uninsured Motorists Coverage: $100,000 Per Person / $300,000 Per Accident

6: Uninsured Motorists Property Damage: $25,000 Per Accident

7: Zero deductible 

All for $395 a year. 

 

For an additional $45 a year I have membership in their Hagerty Drivers Club which covers unlimited number of roadside assistances and unlimited number of 20 mile flatbed towings. Another $25 per year would bump the towing to 60 miles. 

 

Much better coverage and at a lesser cost than our daily drivers.

 

I pay more than that with Hagerty and have an agreed value half that of yours. Sounds like I'm getting ripped off compared to others. No accidents and I have 3 motorcycle on the policy too.

 

Now my 1971 Honda is only $18/year for full coverage. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by bluebanshee

[Robert5]

57 minutes ago, desoto1939 said:

Update: JC Taylor uses Agreed value so does Grundy and Congdon and skelly specialty insurance. I have had all three of these companies.  So always ask the question if the car is a total loss then you will get the Agreed value of the car as per the dollar amount that the policy was written for and Agreed to by both you and the Insurance company with no deprecation or the value is calculated against the NADA or Kelly Blue Book.

 

J c Taylor is in the town that I grew up in so know them very well and was talking to them about this issue at a car show over this weekend, so they do have agreed value policies.

 

Yes ago some of the insurance companies had mileage restrictions but i do not see these restriction anymore.

 

Grudy does not care how many miles you put on the car each year.  You might belong to AACA and they have many regional tours so the mileage will increase as you travel to these events, participate int he event and drive home.

 

Always contact your carrier to clarify any questions on coverage do not wait until its tooooooo late when then you file a claim.

 

Rich Hartung

 

Rich Hartung

Are we positive on Taylor's using Agreed Value Policy?

The reason I ask is that for about the first 40 years of their existence they did not. They used Stated Value Policy. When did they switch over?

[capt den]

i use hagerty. 225/yr. agreed value of 25,000. car is a 54 chrysler windsor convertible. i called them to say i did not think they would pay that for the car if totalled and i should have a less expensive policy. they assured me the agreed value was correct and i kept my policy as it was. my car is mostly original, runs and drives very well. i know a freind who uses them and was paid the agreed value quickly when the car was in a fire that totalled it. not advertising for them, i assume the other collector car insurers are just as good.    capt den

[Dan Hiebert]

Every State has different auto insurance laws that the insurance companies have to go by.  I.e., in Michigan, we had to basically pay the State (through the policy) to even have insurance, when we left it was $170 per vehicle, regardless if it was antique or not.  Probably more now.  NY was just flat-out expensive.  Our specialty policy here in ME is inexpensive, but our regular policy is almost as much as NY.   

[kencombs]

1 hour ago, hkestes41 said:

I use Haggarty for my 37 Plymouth coupe. When I took out the policy I had to provide photos of the front, rear, left/right sides, front 3/4 from both sides, interior and engine. I did not have to provide any documentation as to an appraisal. 

 

The Agreed Value policy is for $30K. They asked how many miles a year I would be driving and I stated 8K miles. There are no limits on where or when the car is driven only that it can not be used in racing or as a ride share vehicle.

 

The coverages are as below.

1: Bodily Injury Liability: $100,000 Per Person / $300,000 Per Accident

2: Property Damage Liability: $100,000 Per Accident

3: Medical Payments: $2,500 Per Person Per Accident

4: Personal Injury Protection Benefits: $2,500 Per Person Per Accident

5: Uninsured Motorists Coverage: $100,000 Per Person / $300,000 Per Accident

6: Uninsured Motorists Property Damage: $25,000 Per Accident

7: Zero deductible 

All for $395 a year. 

 

For an additional $45 a year I have membership in their Hagerty Drivers Club which covers unlimited number of roadside assistances and unlimited number of 20 mile flatbed towings. Another $25 per year would bump the towing to 60 miles. 

 

Much better coverage and at a lesser cost than our daily drivers.

 

I didn't see collision or comprehensive in that list, just liability type coverage.  Oversight?

[desoto1939]

2 hours ago, capt den said:

i use hagerty. 225/yr. agreed value of 25,000. car is a 54 chrysler windsor convertible. i called them to say i did not think they would pay that for the car if totalled and i should have a less expensive policy. they assured me the agreed value was correct and i kept my policy as it was. my car is mostly original, runs and drives very well. i know a freind who uses them and was paid the agreed value quickly when the car was in a fire that totalled it. not advertising for them, i assume the other collector car insurers are just as good.    capt den

Capt Den:  Yes as you can see they agreed to the 25K policy and value on the car, you might not personally think the car is worth that amount but they have their own charts and this amount was witin their coverage valuation for your car.  Now if you car is a documented AACA Senior First awarded car then it is worth more and if it is an AACA Senior Grand National Awarded car then you can insure it for even more. Its all based on the condition how many official awards it has recieved.

 

So for less than $20 a month your car is worth $25K and would be paid out to you with no deduction if the car is totaled.  Can not get that guarantee on are modern car or truck for that cheap of a monthly fee.

 

Rich Hartung

[Bryan G]

I've used Hagerty in the past and was very happy with them; unfortunately I don't have a garage, and that's that: game over. 

 

Let me say this, without going too far: I work in claims for a "standard" insurance company. If you have a claim, the folks who handle one Accord/Camry/F-150 after another, all-day/everyday, will stutter a bit at first...but then it will get tossed into the hands of someone who knows a Plymouth from a Packard, and things will get sorted out.

[Local2ED]

On 8/9/2021 at 10:15 AM, hkestes41 said:

 They asked how many miles a year I would be driving and I stated 8K miles. There are no limits on where or when the car is driven only that it can not be used in racing or as a ride share vehicle.

 

 

 

The last time I was insured with Haggarty, it's been about ten years ago, I was told by someone from their office that the coverage was for driving to and from car show type events and if just a pleasure drive and a accident happened, coverage would be determined on a case by case basis.

I didn't like the vagueness of the persons answer and it is possible that person did not know what they were talking about so I cancelled the policy.

I insured with my regular insurer and drive the vehicle as a daily driver, to work, vacation, leave it parked outside if needed with no worries of coverage.

[desoto1939]

11 hours ago, Local2ED said:

The last time I was insured with Haggarty, it's been about ten years ago, I was told by someone from their office that the coverage was for driving to and from car show type events and if just a pleasure drive and a accident happened, coverage would be determined on a case by case basis.

I didn't like the vagueness of the persons answer and it is possible that person did not know what they were talking about so I cancelled the policy.

I insured with my regular insurer and drive the vehicle as a daily driver, to work, vacation, leave it parked outside if needed with no worries of coverage.

I would recontact Hagerty about your question of driving. I can drive my car for some pleasure driving but not for daily driving.  There are times when youhave to do a drie to verify mechanical works etc and that is covered under my plan.

 

So how is your car insured with your regular carrier? Is it an Agreed policy with no deductable and or depreciation clasues or is an agrred value with an upto clause.  Plese read you policy carefully. Since it is a daily driver you might have stated value and just like any regular car it will lose value as the car gets older.

 

Rich Hartung

[James_Douglas]

I had a very nice talk with the regional underwriter for Hagerty for Northern California. My issue is that I do not own a modern car. In the past they would not insure me. The issue is that your "regular" insurance gives you coverage like medical even if you are riding in someone else's car and the like. Classic car insurance is devoid of all those others things and that is why it is so much less expensive. The Insurance person in this thread can probably elaborate.

 

For 10 years now I have had my 1949 Desoto Convertible Insured via Heacock (Care Providers Insurance Services, LLC) and the actual company that is the insurance company is American Modern Property and Casualty Insurance Company.

 

As long as I keep the 1947 Desoto on State Farm, they will insure the convertible.

 

The regional Hagerty representative gave me his car and said to call him. I plan on doing so.

 

A long time underwriter to me to submit to State Farm a document with all my work done on the car and any auction reports on sales. Then ask for $20K to $30K on it as a street car. If they take the money for the premium then should their be a claim, with the previous documentation, they will pay it. They may not ever again insure and classic for me again...but most likely they will pay it and not try and deprecate it.

 

The key he said was to submit documentation for you file BEFORE you ever have any claims.

 

James

[desoto1939]

Below is a link to the Grundy Care Collector webpage. It will explain their coverage, medical coverage, use of the car and also can take it to work to show off your car. Also talks about how the car must be garaged and also coverage when on tour.

 

This should answer everyone's issues with collector car insurance.  i have done my part to educate people on this topic so now its up to everyone to decide on which policy and company best fits their needs.

 

Has anyone had any update from the first poster regarding the Ins company fighting his claim. Have not heard any update and it would be nice to get his input also. I use Grundy and I am not getting paid for any endorsement from this company just to set the record straight.

 

Grundy Collector:  Insurance for Classic Cars - Grundy Insurance

 

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[Robert5]

I've known 2 people who had Hagerty. Both had total losses. One was a very special car with a value of $150,000.

Both claims were handled well and paid off fully with no hassle.

Speaks well of Hagerty.

 

 

 

[Bryan G]

FYI, Hagerty will begin a partnership, over the next year or so, with State Farm. That's about all I know right now. 

[hkestes41]

On 8/12/2021 at 6:03 PM, James_Douglas said:

Classic car insurance is devoid of all those others things and that is why it is so much less expensive. The Insurance person in this thread can probably elaborate

James, not necessarily true. My Hagerty policy on my 37 Plymouth includes the following. 

 

The coverages are as below.

1: Bodily Injury Liability: $100,000 Per Person / $300,000 Per Accident

2: Property Damage Liability: $100,000 Per Accident

3: Medical Payments: $2,500 Per Person Per Accident

4: Personal Injury Protection Benefits: $2,500 Per Person Per Accident

5: Uninsured Motorists Coverage: $100,000 Per Person / $300,000 Per Accident

6: Uninsured Motorists Property Damage: $25,000 Per Accident

7: Zero deductible 

[James_Douglas]

22 hours ago, hkestes41 said:

James, not necessarily true. My Hagerty policy on my 37 Plymouth includes the following. 

 

The coverages are as below.

1: Bodily Injury Liability: $100,000 Per Person / $300,000 Per Accident

2: Property Damage Liability: $100,000 Per Accident

3: Medical Payments: $2,500 Per Person Per Accident

4: Personal Injury Protection Benefits: $2,500 Per Person Per Accident

5: Uninsured Motorists Coverage: $100,000 Per Person / $300,000 Per Accident

6: Uninsured Motorists Property Damage: $25,000 Per Accident

7: Zero deductible 

According to the regional manager there are thing excluding the above list that your regular insurance does cover that their Hagerty policy does not. An that is the reason they can offer their insurance at such a good price with the value lock.

 

Check with your agent and I am sure he can give you the list of particulars, just like the regional manger did at the Concourse last moth when I talked with him.

 

James

[Sam Buchanan]

Well...this is interesting. I pulled my SafeCo auto insurance policy for the F150 and laid it next to the American Modern policy I buy from Heacock Classic for the Plymouth and TR6 and the liability and medical coverages are nearly identical. There is a difference in how comp and collision is covered due to one being actual cash value and the other agreed value but I don't see any gaps in coverage for the classic car policy. The Heacock policy has towing coverage which my F150 policy doesn't have.

 

I assume the lower premium for the classic policy is due to restrictions on storage and lower mileage (risk exposure) expected with the classic cars. They probably also assume I'm less likely to use the P15 as a battering ram on the idiot who pulls out in front of me than I am with the F150.  ?

 

If Hagerty has gaps in their policies anyone with one might want to take a close look at it....but I suspect it is similar to the policy I have.  ?

Edited August 17, 2021 by Sam Buchanan

[desoto1939]

15 minutes ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Well...this is interesting. I pulled my SafeCo auto insurance policy for the F150 and laid it next to the American Modern policy I buy from Heacock Classic for the Plymouth and TR6 and the liability and medical coverages are nearly identical. There is a difference in how comp and collision is covered due to one being actual cash value and the other agreed value but I don't see any gaps in coverage for the classic car policy. The Heacock policy has towing coverage which my F150 policy doesn't have.

 

I assume the lower premium for the classic policy is due to restrictions on storage and lower mileage (risk exposure) expected with the classic cars. They probably also assume I'm less likely to use the P15 as a battering ram on the idiot who pulls out in front of me than I am with the F150.  ?

 

If Hagerty has gaps in their policies anyone with one might want to take a close look at it....but I suspect it is similar to the policy I have.  ?

Sam I am glad that you looked at your policy. But you did not tell us if both are an Agreed policy or if one is a Stated policy.  So how would the two companies handle a total lose of each vehicle?  Would one payout the amount that you think you should get for the vehicle or would there be some discussion onthe value and there would be a depreciation on either one of the vehicles.  That is what is driving this discussion Agreed Valued versus  Stated value. These are two different ways that the compnaies inform you of how you will get paid for a claim and or total lose of your car/truck. Also look for the statement on Agreed value that it might say that coverage is upto the agreed value.  That means that they have leg room to not payout the value that you think that they should pay you.

 

Rich Hartung

[Sam Buchanan]

Rich, go back and reread my post carefully. I said "due to one being actual cash value and the other agreed value".

 

The F150 (a 2013 pickup truck) is actual cash value and the classic car policy is agreed value. I am very clear on how these two coverages apply.

 

The following is a quote from the definitions page of my policy:

 

"Agreed Value means the value of the vehicle at the inception date of the policy that you and we agree on. You agree that we may change this amount when the policy is renewed to reflect current costs and values." 

 

I'm thinking Agreed means......agreed.   

 

Now, if a fire consumes my garage and it is evident that the engine, fenders, and all running gear had been missing from my car at the time of the fire and were nowhere to be found, the insurance company would most likely have issues with my claim. But that is an extreme example and doesn't reflect usual protocol. They expect the car to be in at least as good a condition as it was when I submitted photos to them when the policy was written. They actually told me my requested agreed value of the TR6 was lower than market value and incouraged me to increase coverage, which I did with no additional premium.

 

There are some conditions placed on value of spare parts lost/damaged, values may be reduced due to depreciation or wear. This may be what is causing some confusion in this discussion. But there are no statements amending the agreed value of the vehicle in my policy.

 

I just don't see the problem here.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Sam Buchanan

[desoto1939]

Sam: Yes the agreed value is correct you get what they accepted plain and simple.  So the actual vlaues is based on the cars age condition mileage and other factors. So if the stated value was at 20K but when the total damage was done they found rust out and other things wrong they then have the rights to not pay the stated value.

 

When you stated Agreed value I was talking to a JC Taylor antique car rep over the weekend and some sneaky plans have Agreed value but there is some fine points that say Agreed value UP TO your value say of 20K.

 

I am also glad that you understand how the two policies are worded.  I am not trying to pick on you but i am trying to use your example of the two cars and the two types of covverage so that the rest of the forum members fully understand how the plans work when filing a claim.

 

Thinking you have one plan and then find out you have the other and then the car is a total lose and you wind up getting nothing for the car is a hard pill to swallow.

 

Just trying to provide information.  i am sorry if I misrepresent your input.

 

Rich Hartung