Can't get no spark-isfaction

[Purple Moo Cow]

Figured I should start a new thread for this issue I'm having. 48 d24, starter is rebuilt, solenoid is rebuilt, most exposed wiring was replaced. My ignition key can turn left or right, both ways if I push the starter button it spins the engine and at times does grind (was told I need to adjust starter plunger, haven't gotten there yet). 

 

Issue is: I think I have no spark. I got some hose, put it in a gas can, put some gas in the carb and cranking the engine over got nothing, but oil pressure did build up (thats a good sign in my book). I pulled a spark plug, put it on the block and cranked it over but saw no spark. I replaced the ignition coil, pulled the middle plug from the coil to the dizzy and looked for spark but still didn't see any. 

 

Am I checking for spark from the new coil wrong? It's a 6v coil says it doesn't need an external resistor so I bypassed the ballast resistor used with the previous coil. Could it be my spark plug wires? What kind of wires are best for these old cars?

Edited July 24, 2021 by Purple Moo Cow
Sp

[maddmaxx1949]

Are you getting spark at your points? You can pop the distributor cap of and crank it with the ignition on and see.

[allbizz49]

Make a jumper wire from the battery to the coil. If you are positive ground,  connect one end to battery ground and the other to the post on the coil that runs from the harness, NOT the post that goes to the distributor. Turn it over with the key. It should run. 

[Purple Moo Cow]

13 minutes ago, maddmaxx1949 said:

Are you getting spark at your points? You can pop the distributor cap of and crank it with the ignition on and see.

 

Excuse my ignorance here, am I to understand the spark comes from the distributor and not the coil? 

[Sniper]

When your points open and close they can show a spark there as well.  the spark that feeds your plugs, on the other hand, comes from the coil, the points trigger the coil but it is the coil that makes the spark for the plugs. 

[maddmaxx1949]

A combination of both. The coil and distributor are still connected via wire off the ground side of the coil regardless if the cap is attached.  Should be  + if your system is stock.

[Sniper]

I really need to make a basic "how does my ignition system work?" video.

[maddmaxx1949]

1 minute ago, Sniper said:

I really need to make a basic "how does my ignition system work?" video.

Honestly with the amount of no spark questions on here its amazing there isn't one already.

[Sniper]

Well, I have a spare distributor, a spare coil, spare plug wires, spare plugs.  I can do it.  lol.  Then y'all will see the terror that is the sniper, lol.

[maddmaxx1949]

Set it up laid out labeled on a piece of plywood and stand it up, then you can walk us peons through the system lol. Breakdowns on how things work are always appreciated even if they are basic.

[Purple Moo Cow]

14 minutes ago, Sniper said:

I really need to make a basic "how does my ignition system work?" video.

That would certainly be welcomed. I feel like I have a generally good grasp of how things work aha. I understand the coil boosts the spark essentially and the dizzy tells the spark which wire to go to for whatever spark plug is up next, I just am not seeing spark anywhere and having replaced the coil I don't know what's next to replace. Points? Wires? And if so, what's preferred for these old dames

[allbizz49]

Hotwire it. If your ignition is up to snuff, it will run. Eliminates a few things to try and diagnose. If it runs by jumping the coil. you know the problem is in the switch and or related parts. Plus, you'll get to hear it run.

Edited July 24, 2021 by allbizz49

[Purple Moo Cow]

24 minutes ago, allbizz49 said:

Hotwire it. If your ignition is up to snuff, it will run. Eliminates a few things to try and diagnose. If it runs by jumping the coil. you know the problem is in the switch and or related parts. Plus, you'll get to hear it run.

Fair enough. Can't get much worse at this point anyway

[maddmaxx1949]

I usually start with -Battery -> spark at distributor -yes, check rotor, cap, plug wires/plugs, if no -> wiring -> Wiring/grounds looks good -> switch or relays.

[kencombs]

47 minutes ago, Purple Moo Cow said:

That would certainly be welcomed. I feel like I have a generally good grasp of how things work aha. I understand the coil boosts the spark essentially and the dizzy tells the spark which wire to go to for whatever spark plug is up next, I just am not seeing spark anywhere and having replaced the coil I don't know what's next to replace. Points? Wires? And if so, what's preferred for these old dames

Please  Google 'Kettering ignition'.  There are many clear explanations already on the web. 

 

Saying spark at the points is sorta unclear.  There should be current/voltage at that point but nothing like the high voltage that is generated by the coil.  I strongly suggest you invest in a cheap multimeter, just a few bucks buys one that will work for simple primary system diagnostics.  A test light will work, but a meter is capable of so much more.

 

You  really need to start at the switch and work your way toward the coil primary testing for voltage at each point.

[maddmaxx1949]

Spark at the points meaning, if you take the distributor cap off and crank the engine with the ignition on, you should see a decent spark where the points are opening and closing.

[wagoneer]

Understanding this circuit has been my obsession recently.

 

12 volt system:

 

@Purple Moo Cow, You mentioned something interesting - there used to be a ballast on your distributor. Was your system converted to 12 volts? Do you have an alternator or more pointedly a 12 volt battery installed? A ballast is only used on 12 volt systems.

 

If so, then you have the wrong coil and you would need the resistor.

 

 

Starter gear:

 

That grinding should not be happening especially after a rebuild! There is a pullback spring that retracts the starter gearing after engaging. End play is crucial here.

 

You should complain to whomever rebuilt it as it sounds like it's sticking or has the wrong  clearance and therefore not fully engaging or possibly sticking open at times .

 

Alternative is the specific flywheel teeth you are connecting to are damaged causing slippage.

 

 

Bench test your distributor:

 

You can bench test your setup.

 

I created a bench test of my setup to verify dwell and to understand it better.

 

I made a video showing the simple ignition circuit.

 

Worth checking is that your starter button or ammeter isn't grounding your circuit accidentally . I too was not getting spark until I took out my ignition key and ammeter . The ignition key is directly linked to the negative terminal (as @allbizz49 suggests) and bypassing it gives you the simple circuit shown below. You bypass the starter button too in this way .

 

just be aware your ignition is hot then and you must disconnect the negative terminal of the battery ( the one going to the starter) to turn off the car. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by wagoneer

[Sniper]

13 hours ago, maddmaxx1949 said:

Set it up laid out labeled on a piece of plywood

 

Hey, I ain't made of money you know, lol.

[desoto1939]

After reading your post about the ballast these were used on 12 volts systems and not 6 volt systems.  So do you have a 12 or 6 volt system inthe car is the first question.

 

There are 12v and 6 volt coils.  If youhave a 6 volt New coil and the car is positive ground then the ignition switch wire connects to the negative side of the coil. The new coils will have two posts on the top of the coil marked + and -. Connect the ignition switch wire to the negative and then the positive goes to the contact point where the breaker plate comes out of the dizzy.

 

Also check on the breaker plate where it comes out of the body of the dizzy that there should be a rubber plug that has a slot for the breaker plate to extend out of the body.  There also should be a piece of bakeolite material under this protrusion.  This is to prevent the breaker plate from grounding out and then you get no sparks becasue the diizy grounded itself..

 

Check this area this also might be your problem.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[Purple Moo Cow]

44 minutes ago, desoto1939 said:

After reading your post about the ballast these were used on 12 volts systems and not 6 volt systems.  So do you have a 12 or 6 volt system inthe car is the first question.

 

There are 12v and 6 volt coils.  If youhave a 6 volt New coil and the car is positive ground then the ignition switch wire connects to the negative side of the coil. The new coils will have two posts on the top of the coil marked + and -. Connect the ignition switch wire to the negative and then the positive goes to the contact point where the breaker plate comes out of the dizzy.

 

Also check on the breaker plate where it comes out of the body of the dizzy that there should be a rubber plug that has a slot for the breaker plate to extend out of the body.  There also should be a piece of bakeolite material under this protrusion.  This is to prevent the breaker plate from grounding out and then you get no sparks becasue the diizy grounded itself..

 

Check this area this also might be your problem.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

 

@wagoneer from my knowledge the car is 6v. It had a 6v battery in it when I bought it, it was positive ground, and a 6v battery spins the starter. For whatever reason the ignition coil it had in it when I bought it said 12v external resistor required, and was running through a ballast resistor. Now I never saw the car run when I bought it, it was towed home on a trailer. I'm fairly certain whoever had it before me did some changes and could not get it to run, so they sold it, and eventually it worked its way to me. I have purchased a 6v coil, as it's got a 6v battery and is positively ground, and am no longer using the ballast resistor. 

 

@desoto1939 I appreciate the insight into the dizzy situation, I will try and inspect that better and see if it is missing that plate. Just gotta wait for some time to get back out there again

[Sniper]

Wrong coil was installed, simple as that. 

[Purple Moo Cow]

@Sniper I agree, which that combined with a number of other poor or incorrect things I've found already lead me to believe a PO had no idea what they were doing and did not put in the required effort to figure things out leaving me with more work. But it's ok, when all is said and done I'll know this car inside and out. 

[Tom Skinner]

DeSoto1939, and Sniper,

Thank you for helping MooCow. 

Tom

[desoto1939]

29 minutes ago, Tom Skinner said:

DeSoto1939, and Sniper,

Thank you for helping MooCow. 

Tom

Tom, We all have been there with problems and if we can help someone get their car back on the raod thats what the hobby is all about, Passing on accumulated knowledge.

 

Richartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[Sniper]

Rich is correct, just paying forward stuff I was helped with back when I didn't know as much as I think I do, lol.