'50 Coronet engine cracked.

[librado65]

Guy sent me more pictures of the military 230 engine. He said he was going to send video of it running tomorrow. He said he'd be willing to drive to drop it off at terminal to save on shipping. He also has a Plymouth 218 with dual carbs which hes asking for $1500...he said its a complete rebuilt engine. Hmmm

[Andydodge]

I'd go with twin carbed Plymouth engine.............looking at the pics of it shows a lot of aftermarket pieces that would cost quite a bit........finned head, intake manifold, weber carbies, late style plug leads that generally go with a HEI,tube headers of some sort...........if this engine has been rebuilt as well, can this guy tell you what was "rebuilt"?..........also there appears to be what looks like a head bolt lying in the middle of the head.........is it and if so why is it there?........and why is the Plymouth engine now for sale?..............but it would generally seem to be a better deal than the ex military engine which has things attached that you won't need nor use like the bellhousing, front engine mount, air intake assembly, etc..........andyd.

[librado65]

15 hours ago, Andydodge said:

I'd go with twin carbed Plymouth engine.............looking at the pics of it shows a lot of aftermarket pieces that would cost quite a bit........finned head, intake manifold, weber carbies, late style plug leads that generally go with a HEI,tube headers of some sort...........if this engine has been rebuilt as well, can this guy tell you what was "rebuilt"?..........also there appears to be what looks like a head bolt lying in the middle of the head.........is it and if so why is it there?........and why is the Plymouth engine now for sale?..............but it would generally seem to be a better deal than the ex military engine which has things attached that you won't need nor use like the bellhousing, front engine mount, air intake assembly, etc..........andyd.

 

He said the 218 is being replaced with a Hemi because he wants more speed. I asked him what exactly was rebuilt and he told me the list of things and said he rebuilt the block from scratch. Now question @Andydodge : would the 218 bolt onto my gyromatic transmission and would it work with my transmission? Reading the points you made about the 218 makes me open to thinking if you are right that is a better deal 

[Los_Control]

38 minutes ago, librado65 said:

would the 218 bolt onto my gyromatic transmission and would it work with my transmission?

That is a very real  & good question. 

My tiny lil brain tells me some or most 218 have a 6 bolt crank flange for transmission to connect to.

While the 230 had a 8 bolt flange for different transmission options. Like the fluid drive.

 

If you have your engine out, you can see the rear crank flange and count the holes between 6 & 8.

The seller has the engine out, can tell you the bolts on the crank flange.

 

Just saying for me it does not matter if 6 or 8 bolt crank with a 3spd manual transmission.

If you have a fluid drive or a gyromatic, you need to check this.

 

I am only posting to bring the post back to the top.

I do not know correct answer for the gyromatic.  Others do.

[Andydodge]

I can't say in regard to the crank flange, as LOS mentions the only way is to compare the flanges...........but for me the 218 with all the bits is a much better deal than a stock 230.......but whether it will allow the flywheel match is the question that I just can't answer..........sorry.............andyd 

[librado65]

Been trying to unbolt things today in preparation of removing engine...look at the hole in the oil pan filled with pieces of metal. 

[librado65]

Heres an upclose picture of pieces in oil pan

[librado65]

Heres some of the pieces that I tried to scrape out onto a drain pan.

[librado65]

Still trying to figure out what all I need to disconnect to make the engine removal easier for either myself or mechanic. So far have disconnected: thermostat, fuel pump, generator (that was barely hanging on by a thread from explosion), and rear engine mounts. Plan on removing radiator as well to make more space, but might wait until day of removal to avoid damaging the radiator. 

 

Ive scoured the forum trying to look for removal tips. Also have the manual on the bench trying to figure it out. How do I disconnect the transmission from engine? Been trying to degrease all the dirt grime and crud to find bolts. Watching @keithb7 YouTube videos inspired me to try to do as much as I can by myself. 

[kencombs]

It best to remove the driveshaft, disconnect the ebrake and shift linkage, then remove the trans.  If you're not experienced with this, be sure you have a jack and stands that are to tall enough to allow you to pull the trans down and out without obstruction.  It's really easy to hurt yourself with a hunk of heavy iron when handling it on your back.  And most important, be absolutely sure the stands are solid and safe.  I have good stands but always back them up with something else,

 

from your list of things done the only obvious omissions I see are the exhaust pipe to manifold, throttle and choke linkages and heater hoses.

[keithb7]

In the pics above I think I see parts of a piston pin. Maybe cast pieces of a piston. Part of a friction bearing.

 

The only Mopar's I ever really work on are mine. So I am limited in offering tips to remove your 1950 tranny.  With my older Mopars I am spoiled by the engineers who designed the car to make it easy to work on. As you may have seen, the floor comes right out in my 38 Plymouth. I loved it so much I bought another 38. My Chrysler. Lol.

 

I am happy to hear my videos are inspiring people to do their own work. Know your limitations. If you need help lugging around heavy items, line up a friend. Do not put any part of your body under an unsecured load, like the transmission. 

 

I think I see your frame crossmember is permanently welded in place. I suspect you'll have you slide your tranny rear-ward then then down, once it clears the cross member.

 

 

[librado65]

Plans have been delayed a little bit. My first cousin and his family got sick and then unfortunately caught covid and he has been in the hospital and finally passed away from covid this weekend. He helped me out with the car when it was first delivered and put on the fender skirts on for me because he said it looked better with them on. 

 

Anyways....

 

Is there anyone near or around Trinity, Alabama, USA. The gentleman with the engine only wants a $400 check or money order as payment. I tried to discuss transferring money through PayPal but he said he is not familiar with it. I do not have the time to travel currently. I obviously do not know the guy since he is from the internet and I do not feel safe sending a check to someone online without seeing the engine or the possibility of being scammed.

 

I would like to see if someone on here possibly can go check if the engine is real, for me, please

[kencombs]

14 hours ago, librado65 said:

Plans have been delayed a little bit. My first cousin and his family got sick and then unfortunately caught covid and he has been in the hospital and finally passed away from covid this weekend. He helped me out with the car when it was first delivered and put on the fender skirts on for me because he said it looked better with them on. 

 

Anyways....

 

Is there anyone near or around Trinity, Alabama, USA. The gentleman with the engine only wants a $400 check or money order as payment. I tried to discuss transferring money through PayPal but he said he is not familiar with it. I do not have the time to travel currently. I obviously do not know the guy since he is from the internet and I do not feel safe sending a check to someone online without seeing the engine or the possibility of being scammed.

 

I would like to see if someone on here possibly can go check if the engine is real, for me, please

If you don't get a response here, try posting the request on the HAMB,  lots more eyes there and this is a common type of request.   I know you have posted about the engine search there, but I'd change the post title or make a new one to be sure it gets noticed.

[47Jim]

I don’t know what kind of space you have to work in or if you’re hiring out the engine swap but I’ve had luck in past by buying a whole crappy car with a running engine, usually easier to find and actually easier to transport a whole car than one engine, your odds might be better finding a car locally that just has decent compression, that’s all you really need, the transmission definitely complicates the issue but if you could find the right vehicle, you’ll need to be able to crank it over and check it before putting money down, if checks out, you’re gold, haul the car back to wherever and plug and play as they say.

Ive done this process with a ‘54 caddy and a ‘65 Pontiac, to be sure, the Pontiac was easy to find 

 

Looking on marketplace in my area, there are a few old ******** around, some running, some not, nothing extremely cheap but potential for a deal, either way 

Just an option that’s worked for me and all I needed to bring was a battery and a compression gauge to go look at the vehicle 

[knuckleharley]

10 hours ago, kencombs said:

If you don't get a response here, try posting the request on the HAMB,  lots more eyes there and this is a common type of request.   I know you have posted about the engine search there, but I'd change the post title or make a new one to be sure it gets noticed.

 I got bounced from the HAMB "Shoebox Ford" forum for claiming Ford offered 6 cylinder Fords with FOM transmissions in 1951. Several of the old-time "shoebox experts" flat claimed I was wrong,and a few suggested I was lying,so I posted photos there of the 6 cylinder FOM trans along with the driveshaft,which are both different that the FOM in the V-8 51 Fords. They weren't about to believe what their lying eyes were seeing,and a few came close to calling me a liar. Even after I posted Ford literature and a Ford Parts list from 1951 showing the differences between the V-8 and the flat 6 FOM transmissions,including unique parts numbers.

 

I finally got mad enough to tell one of the big mouths that insinuated that I had been lying on the board for years and wasn't to be taken seriously to ESAD. Where upon he whined to the board monitor and got me banned. He even posted,"I am beginning to to remember why you and I didn't get along the last time you were posting here."which came as a surprise to me because I don't remember butting heads with anyone when I was posting there before.

 

Some people just seem to have too much ego tied up in their hobby,and the HAMB is famous for that.

 

I doubt I will be going back even though it was a temporary bounce because you just KNOW the same asshats will be waiting to pounce again at the first opportunity.

 

This DESPITE other posters even asking on the board why people were insinuating I was a liar after I had posted photos,parts literature,and parts numbers.

[Sniper]

I was on the predecessor to HAMB, they were buttheads there too.  

 

It was called The Rodder's Roundtable. 

[knuckleharley]

4 minutes ago, Sniper said:

I was on the predecessor to HAMB, they were buttheads there too.  

 

It was called The Rodder's Roundtable. 

I somehow missed that one. Doesn't sound like I missed much,though.

Been on the HAMB for years and mostly just read posts and look at the photos instead of posting. I got a "thing" for shoebox Fords though,and posted there for a few years and never had any real problems until I started posting about a FOM in a flat 6 Ford from the factory. How the HELL people can deny it when I posted photos,factory literature,and factory photos of parts numbers unique to flathead Ford 6's with FOM will forever remain a mystery to me.

[kencombs]

1 minute ago, knuckleharley said:

I somehow missed that one. Doesn't sound like I missed much,though.

Been on the HAMB for years and mostly just read posts and look at the photos instead of posting. I got a "thing" for shoebox Fords though,and posted there for a few years and never had any real problems until I started posting about a FOM in a flat 6 Ford from the factory. How the HELL people can deny it when I posted photos,factory literature,and factory photos of parts numbers unique to flathead Ford 6's with FOM will forever remain a mystery to me.

I don't think I've ever seen a flathead Ford 6 with an auto.  Lots of 215/223 OHV though.  Flatheads with autos must be one of the rarest of the rare.  One question:  what is an FOM, transmission?

 

I've been on the HAMB for a long time, never had any issues, but I've never been on one of the social (specific) subforums.

 

Well, except for 54-60 Dodge pickups, and noone ever posts there!

[knuckleharley]

57 minutes ago, kencombs said:

I don't think I've ever seen a flathead Ford 6 with an auto.  Lots of 215/223 OHV though.  Flatheads with autos must be one of the rarest of the rare.  One question:  what is an FOM, transmission?

 

I've been on the HAMB for a long time, never had any issues, but I've never been on one of the social (specific) subforums.

 

Well, except for 54-60 Dodge pickups, and noone ever posts there!

Lots of 51's had FOM transmissions. I have and drive a 51 Victoria with the V-8 flathead and FOM transmission. I plan on selling it once I get my 51 Business coupe with the flat 6 on the road with the FOM transmission. I just like the lines of the business coupes better,and I love the sound of a modified flat 6 with duals and glasspacks.

 

BTW,don't feel lonesome about never seeing a flat 6 Ford with a FOM transmission. I called the Dearborn Museum several years ago to see if they could help me track down the parts I need for the conversion,and they told me THEY had never seen one,either.

 

I finally got lucky by sending emails to everybody on ebay I saw advertising shoebox Ford parts for sale,and after maybe 5 years,one guy answered and said "Yeah,I have it all. I pulled it out of a 51 flat 6 Ford I used to drive and wrecked."

 

He even had the unique driveshaft which really made me feel lucky. After all,who the hell saves driveshafts when they are stripping a car for the crusher?

 

IF you want to see photos of this stuff,send me a PM with your email address. I don't want to clutter up a Mopar site with photos of Ford stuff.

Edited September 8, 2021 by knuckleharley

[Sniper]

I think FOM means Ford-O-Matic

 

Not really a Ford guy though

[knuckleharley]

8 minutes ago, Sniper said:

I think FOM means Ford-O-Matic

 

Not really a Ford guy though

Yup. That is exactly what it means.

 

BTW,everybody thinks the early FOM's were two speed transmissions,but they are really 3 speed transmissions that start off in second gear unless you put the selector in the "L" position.

 

Early Studebakers used the same auto transmission. They were made by Borg-Warner,not Ford.

Edited September 8, 2021 by knuckleharley

[librado65]

13 hours ago, kencombs said:

If you don't get a response here, try posting the request on the HAMB,  lots more eyes there and this is a common type of request.   I know you have posted about the engine search there, but I'd change the post title or make a new one to be sure it gets noticed.

 

Very true thanks. I had an old account there and for email/password so I just started a new account on there so I often forget to check in on there.

[kencombs]

10 hours ago, Sniper said:

I think FOM means Ford-O-Matic

 

Not really a Ford guy though

So obvious once I see it!  I kept trying to make Ford-Lincoln-Mercury fit.

[kencombs]

10 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

Yup. That is exactly what it means.

 

BTW,everybody thinks the early FOM's were two speed transmissions,but they are really 3 speed transmissions that start off in second gear unless you put the selector in the "L" position.

 

Early Studebakers used the same auto transmission. They were made by Borg-Warner,not Ford.

Yep, that BW trans was used by a lot of companies, including a lot of British names.  Later valve bodies used all three gears, and can be swapped into the earlier versions.  After the Cruiseomatic came out the Fordomatic name was used on a true 2spd auto on cheaper models.  One of my first automatic rebuilds was one of those in a Falcon Ranchero with a blazing 144CI engine.  Aluminum one piece case.

[librado65]

FINALLY GOT REPLACEMENT ENGINE! ? It was the engine from Alabama. Paid $400 for it. Had a guy from the HAMB from Alabama drive out 15 mins to check out the engine for me. Mailed a money order to seller. Then seller offered to bring out engine on his truck to me for cheaper than I could find using freight. $350. Thank you to everyone who helped me out by answering my questions since this was my first time trying to source an engine for my Coronet.

 

Now apparently guy from HAMB who drove out to check out the engine for me claims that there is a tag on the bottom of engine that indicates this was a rebuilt engine. He said it turns over smoothly (as I tried myself once recieved). 

 

I will having a mechanic install engine for me but what should I also have the mechanic do on engine before installing? Im just trying to be able to cruise and not trying to build a show car so do not have a big budget for a complete teardown.