How do I remove this bushing on my starter motor?

[Art Bailey]

Hey All,

 

This is the rear cover from the Autolite starter on my '48 Desoto. I'd like to remove and replace the Oilite bushing, but I can't see a way to get it out.

 

 

 

 

 

Sealed up tight. There's no apparent gap between the bushing and cover to grab it. Any suggestions? I know...take it to a shop.

Thanks...

 

-Art

[Eneto-55]

I've never done it that I can remember, but some use (white) bread, heavy grease, or something like peanut butter.  You fill the bore, then press in a shaft of the same size as the ID of the bushing. Produces a hydraulic action which forces the bushing out.

[Art Bailey]

13 minutes ago, Eneto-55 said:

I've never done it that I can remember, but some use (white) bread, heavy grease, or something like peanut butter.  You fill the bore, then press in a shaft of the same size as the ID of the bushing. Produces a hydraulic action which forces the bushing out.

Brilliant! Not sure if I could generate enough pressure with just my bench vise, though. Also, there's just a hairline crevise at the bottom, where the bushing meets the bottom, I wonder if there's enough space down there to get it going?

Edited June 16, 2021 by ratbailey

[Eneto-55]

2 minutes ago, ratbailey said:

Brilliant! Not sure if I could generate enough pressure with just my bench vise, though. 

Yeah, I don't know how much pressure is required, but where I've heard of it being done is to get the pilot bushing out.  I think they may tap on the line-up shaft they are using.  I'd imagine that a shaft fixed on to an air hammer would also do the trick.

[dpollo]

To get the bushing out you select a tap which will cut into the bushing and form a thread .  You  run the tap through, cutting a thread all the way through.  Keep turning until the tap hits bottom.  Turn some more and the bushing comes out slick as can be !

[kencombs]

lots of ways to do it.  I like the tap and bolt method mentioned.  Or, buy a tool for the job.  Here is one:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/oes-27059?seid=srese1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvJqRo6eb8QIVJj2tBh3Y6AyNEAQYBCABEgLYkPD_BwE

 

There are several variations, slide hammer type, dedicated internal only, etc.

[Art Bailey]

Great ideas, guys! Thanks. I really couldn't imagine how this could be done, but the great thing about ancient technology is that whatever problem you have, someone's come up with a solution at some point. I think dpollo's tap idea might work best for this situation, but I may have to either up my tap game and get some better taps (the kind that don't break), or switch to a bolt when it's time to pull. I'll post the results soon. Cheers, all!

[Plymouthy Adams]

it is oilite, very brittle...score the inside with a groove...place a pointed object like a very small punch, screwdriver etc and tap between housing and bush at the scored line...it will break along the scored line......as an added, do this score on the side where it is worn thin also.....

Edited June 16, 2021 by Plymouthy Adams

[kencombs]

1 hour ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

it is oilite, very brittle...score the inside with a groove...place a pointed object like a very small punch, screwdriver etc and tap between housing and bush at the scored line...it will break along the scored line......as an added, do this score on the side where it is worn thin also.....

Should have mentioned in my first post this is a good method.  If you have a Dremel or similar tool with a coarse carbide burr (even steel works) it makes short work of cutting the bushing slot.

[Art Bailey]

Here's where I'm at. I decided to tap the bushing. M18 1.5 was the closest thing I had. It would've worked perfectly, but there's a spot welded flat washer type thing, not really centered carefully, that's preventing the bushing from coming out any further. 

My plan is to dremel/drill/grind the spot welds, and remove that thing, maybe replace it with some washers and brass shims, or just put it back. Is there anything more specific I should be considering, like washer material, type, etc? What's in there is pretty lo-tech, so I guess it's not that critical.

No turning back now...

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by ratbailey

[desoto1939]

This is the commutator eng of the generator.  I think whne these bushing wore out they just replaced the commutator end as a unit. It was a whle lot cheaper to get the entire new part then spend the time an effort to pull the bearing press in the new bearing. Just went to the parts depart and had the NOS item in hand then put the new part on the generator and reinstalled the unit back inthe car.

 

rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol.com 

[Plymouthy Adams]

get your new bush....measure the OD....slighly enlarge hole...extract old insert new....be sure to soak the new bush in oil for the purpose it is designed...it is not like this is going to orbit the earth for a few years....keep it simple and effective.

[desoto1939]

If you send me your email address I will copy the page out of the autolite catalog on Generator with the information that you need to replace the commutator end

 

 

rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[Art Bailey]

19 minutes ago, desoto1939 said:

This is the commutator eng of the generator.  I think whne these bushing wore out they just replaced the commutator end as a unit. It was a whle lot cheaper to get the entire new part then spend the time an effort to pull the bearing press in the new bearing. Just went to the parts depart and had the NOS item in hand then put the new part on the generator and reinstalled the unit back inthe car.

 

rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol.com 

Next project: get my wayback machine inspected and plated ?

Interesting...the Desoto parts book shows that there used to be a bunch of washers in there. 

8-52-121: Leather washer, bunch of fibre shims, and unknown washer at the "pinion end", is that the cover end? So, at some point, they made the throwaway cover, but it's a safe bet that I could remove the built in washer and replace it with carefully chosen loose washers and spacers. A teflon washer might be a better modern choice.

Edited June 17, 2021 by ratbailey

[Plymouthy Adams]

I say save the NOS for the time when you CANNOT simply effect a viable repair.....but then.....some folks like to just bolt stuff in place and not tweak/hone repair skill......neither approach is wrong.....availability and cost usually the deciding factors....

[Art Bailey]

4 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

get your new bush....measure the OD....slighly enlarge hole...extract old insert new....be sure to soak the new bush in oil for the purpose it is designed...it is not like this is going to orbit the earth for a few years....keep it simple and effective.

Good call, I may do this...thanks. Sometimes I have to be reminded to keep it simple.

[desoto1939]

20 hours ago, ratbailey said:

Good call, I may do this...thanks. Sometimes I have to be reminded to keep it simple.

ratbailey:  Hope you received the documents regarding your generator.  Look closely at the various gens that were used for your car then look at the tag on your car. Then look at the appropriate commutation end number from the lsiting from the Autolite page.  Go on Ebay and see if you can find a NOS. I would do that first to correct the problem and then tinker around with the old unit. At least then you can drive the car.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[Plymouthy Adams]

sorry but waiting for a piece from e-bay verse popping in a common bush.....don't see the practicality here.....not saying you do not have good advice...just not the best order in my thinking.....repair this and drive the car while waiting for a NOS to hold for the future.....that is more in line to practical but then I often have very different views from others.  

[desoto1939]

Plymouthy. The bushing that he is showing in his pictures is tack welded into an outer covering. So you would have to remove the tack weld get the new bushing then tack weld it back in and hopefully not ruin the outer flange. If youhave the tools to do this then tat is great but if you do not then what is the cost of a repair versus the cost and time to replace NOS commutator end.

 

rich

[Plymouthy Adams]

I beg to differ on the repair needed and the manner to go about it...there is no cause to remove the tack welds....nor a need to put them back....the tools to do this is common....the time, very little, the reward, back on the road now....but again....not my call...just my view...

[Los_Control]

5 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I beg to differ on the repair needed and the manner to go about it...there is no cause to remove the tack welds....nor a need to put them back....the tools to do this is common....the time, very little, the reward, back on the road now....but again....not my call...just my view...

Not positive PA, I think you are wrong here.

Obvious the flat washer tack welded in place is holding the bushing .... Why? I do not know.

I would think it would stay in position without a washer welded to hold it ..... is it possible they moved in earlier years?

 

To me it seems obvious to remove the washer then the bushing & replace. Question is adding the washer back in .

 

To me, this is a 1948 Desoto, the flathead six engines were around for over a decade then. Think it was 1935 they made some changes to the starter ....

I just assume the washer was added for a reason. The engine & starter already been around for over a decade or two.

 

The washer may only act as a shim ... I have no clue ... I would try to save it and replace it.

I agree that it may not be needed ... unless someone can explain exactly why it was added in the first place, I would put it back.

 

I was at church once, lady in front of me stood up to sing and her dress was caught in the crack of her arse ... so I pulled it out.

 .... she smacked me.

Next time she stood up to sing I pushed her dress back into her arse. she smacked me again.

 

Who knows why that washer is there, seems to be factory ... I suppose they put it there for a reason.  Ask the lady in church, she may tell you none of your business.

Sometimes putting it back does not turn out well either.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the bushing is press fit last thing you want here is a loose fitting bush that may spin........that the cover interferes with the removal the man has made that statement....but then could be distorted on the bush with the attempt to thread and withdraw in this fashion....I suggest measuring the new bush to get this spec....it is not on hand as I understand it.......the plates are supplied with or without the cover tacked on....they come with or without ground brushes affixed with the holder rivet....this would not cause me to slow down or yawn for that matter.....just do what you need to do and let the big dog off the chain....

[kencombs]

I think that washer is there to absorb end thrust.  A lot of older starters used two washers, some of them leather to do that.  I really doubt that it retains the bushing.  Those are always press-fit, IME.

[Veemoney]

Plenty of good ideas.

Prior to threading the bushing it looked like it had the clearance to be extracted/installed. Since the major diameter of the threads are cut close to the OD size of the bushing now it would make it easy enough to Dremel 180 degrees apart and split the bushing to remove it in 2 pieces leaving the washer intact and to size. If the new bushing fits through the washer then it could be for thrust though it shows no signs of wear.

My 2 cents, with inflation I probably owe you now.   

[desoto1939]

4 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I beg to differ on the repair needed and the manner to go about it...there is no cause to remove the tack welds....nor a need to put them back....the tools to do this is common....the time, very little, the reward, back on the road now....but again....not my call...just my view...

Plymouthy what tool do you use to remove the bushing?  I know that on the pilot bushing, which this is similar to, the pilot bushing is a pressure fit in the hole. There is a special Miller tool that is threaded on on. I have both of these tools but on the picture that the poster is showing these tools will not work becasue of the tacked washer.

 

Rich