50mech Posted February 25, 2020 Report Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Question... on this 50 special deluxe, Any problem swapping the dual action fuel pump for a single? Anyone know if the pump arm is the same? I won't be needing the vacuum assistance, I have 47 Chrysler electric wiper set on the way. I've been working on this with a friend in weekends. I've got a lot of info lurking here. Thank you all! So far she's had done; Replace entire brake system sans master cylinder (Vette type on the way) Split fuel tank and deleted the built in pickup filter. Installed inline filters. All new rubber hoses, belts,lines. Electronic ignition installed, timed Rebuilt carb Freed up and cleaned and lubed all switches and linkages and wiring connectors Flushed heater core Rebuilt heater box and blend doors Replaced thermostat Oil pan gasket Pinion seal All lube Freed a stuck ring New exhaust Put about 100 miles on her so far ran great until the fuel pump gave out. Everything is working. 28k on her, 4th owner. This weekend, fuel pump,master cylinder, LED headlights, taillights and guage lights. Electric wipers and possibly a yf knockoff carb install ( idle orifice tube is worn at the tip and can't be snugged without cutting off the idle circuit, no way to get a replacement that I know of) Near future Ac installation which I'd love to share here, I have a few unique ways to overcome the issues of doing this on a 6v system. Paint job and minor body work. Edited February 25, 2020 by 50mech Add info 3 Quote
desoto1939 Posted February 25, 2020 Report Posted February 25, 2020 The dual action FP was to supply a vacuum supply line to the wiper motor since it ran off of the engine or something to create the vacuum. Since you are converting to electric wipers there is no longer a need for a vacuum line to the wiper motor unles the vacuum line was feeding something else on the car. You might beable to use an AC 588 fuel pump. I have a 39 desoto that came standar with the 6 volt electric wiper motor. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com Quote
50mech Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, desoto1939 said: The dual action FP was to supply a vacuum supply line to the wiper motor since it ran off of the engine or something to create the vacuum. Since you are converting to electric wipers there is no longer a need for a vacuum line to the wiper motor unles the vacuum line was feeding something else on the car. You might beable to use an AC 588 fuel pump. I have a 39 desoto that came standar with the 6 volt electric wiper motor. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com I have a 588 ordered, should be here for this weekend... Just hoping there's no difference in the pump arm that will cause any problems. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted February 25, 2020 Report Posted February 25, 2020 hope you do not hit a snag...the big three sisters had electric wipers but they also a wider separation when installed compared to the Plymouth...approx. one inch... Quote
Sniper Posted February 25, 2020 Report Posted February 25, 2020 AC 588 Airtex 73201 Spectre Premium SP1296MP - available new Quote
50mech Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Posted February 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said: hope you do not hit a snag...the big three sisters had electric wipers but they also a wider separation when installed compared to the Plymouth...approx. one inch... If I have to cut it down and make a weld or two it's not really a big deal, but thank you, I wasn't able to find a totally clear answer about that on here. Quote
50mech Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Posted February 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Sniper said: AC 588 Airtex 73201 Spectre Premium SP1296MP - available new Already on the way, just hoping this http://www.classicpartsusa.com/product/FP37DM_1950/1950_Truck_Parts_Gas_Tank_and_Fuel_Items?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8M-MwLDt5wIVbP_jBx0MKQzaEAQYDCABEgKWIfD_BwE Which is currently installed Can be swapped out for the 588 without issues. Quote
Solution DJ194950 Posted February 25, 2020 Solution Report Posted February 25, 2020 No problems switching from FP with vacuum assist to standard, arms are same style, etc. DJ 1 Quote
50mech Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Posted February 25, 2020 15 minutes ago, DJ194950 said: No problems switching from FP with vacuum assist to standard, arms are same style, etc. D Quote
50mech Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Just for fun here are a couple pics of the internal filter/ pickup in the tank. I have a sneaking suspicion that many of the additional electric pumps being used to supplement mechanical pumps are actually only necessary because of this guy. Inside under that filter element was tons of garbage. Edited February 25, 2020 by 50mech Add info Quote
Sam Buchanan Posted February 25, 2020 Report Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, 50mech said: Just for fun here are a couple pics of the internal filter/ pickup in the tank. I have a sneaking suspicion that many of the additional electric pumps being used to supplement mechanical pumps are actually only necessary because of this guy. Inside under that filter element was tons of garbage. When I looked inside my P15's tank and the whole thing looked like alien life forms had taken up residence I yanked the tank and put in a new one....no point trying to work with that mess....72 years is long enough for one tank..... ? Edited February 25, 2020 by Sam Buchanan 3 Quote
Sniper Posted February 25, 2020 Report Posted February 25, 2020 Which brings up a question I have regarding fuel tanks. Mine does not vent. I bought a new vented cap and it still does not vent. On warm days you can heard it oil can when the fuel expands. Once I had gas shoot out when I opened the cap. Is this normal? If not should I add a vent? Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted February 25, 2020 Report Posted February 25, 2020 if you are sure you bought a vented cap...I would inspect it closely to assure there is nothing plugging the aperture... Quote
Sniper Posted February 25, 2020 Report Posted February 25, 2020 AC Delco 12F7 is what I bought, the specifications do say it's vented. The old cap appeared to be a vented one as well. Inspection of the venting apparatus is fairly limited but I saw nothing obvious in either. I almost wonder if modern emissions regulations made a difference. There is no spec showing at what pressure it vents, nor do I have a spec for the original cap. So who knows. Quote
50mech Posted February 26, 2020 Author Report Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) Everything I can find on a 12f7 says it tightly seals the tank and doesn't state vented. At any rate the original cap appears to have a straight through small orifice with no check valves or preset vent pressures, just sort of a labyrinth hole.... I think Edited February 26, 2020 by 50mech Quote
Sniper Posted February 26, 2020 Report Posted February 26, 2020 https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4646622 Shows to be vented. Went to AC Delco's page, it give no specifications other than a picture and a listing of what it fits. Quote
50mech Posted February 26, 2020 Author Report Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Sniper said: AC Delco 12F7 is what I bought, the specifications do say it's vented. The old cap appeared to be a vented one as well. Inspection of the venting apparatus is fairly limited but I saw nothing obvious in either. I almost wonder if modern emissions regulations made a difference. There is no spec showing at what pressure it vents, nor do I have a spec for the original cap. So who knows. Here's a useful thread concerning that cap. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=8022343 The fuel spray warning sticker would definitely indicate the cap let's some pressure build before venting.... No idea if that's a good thing for a car with no return line though.......or if it matters.... Edited February 26, 2020 by 50mech Quote
Sam Buchanan Posted February 26, 2020 Report Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) The fuel cap vents can be difficult to find, here is what they look like on my P15. There are two openings in the center portion of the cap: These are vented to four tiny openings in the underside of the outer rim of the cap: If these are plugged (mine were) use very fine wire to unplug them carefully and test with compressed air....this may be sorta tedious. In the course of trying get my old corroded fuel system working (before I yanked the whole mess and started over with new tank, lines and pump) I drilled a 3/32" hole in the underside of the filler neck to make sure the old cap didn't try to play any tricks....I consider this a useful backup to assure tank venting. This might not be the best option for a car that spends a lot of time parked in the rain. Edited February 26, 2020 by Sam Buchanan Quote
Sniper Posted February 26, 2020 Report Posted February 26, 2020 Don't have a pic of the Delco cap, this is a Motorad but the venting setup is very similar. Looks like it might have a spring loaded valve behind those 5 holes. Quote
DJ194950 Posted February 26, 2020 Report Posted February 26, 2020 I have same rockauto AC Delco cap,same issue. Will look at cap about having a spring that can be cut as the Chevy forum poster did. DJ Quote
soth122003 Posted February 26, 2020 Report Posted February 26, 2020 22 hours ago, 50mech said: Already on the way, just hoping this http://www.classicpartsusa.com/product/FP37DM_1950/1950_Truck_Parts_Gas_Tank_and_Fuel_Items?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8M-MwLDt5wIVbP_jBx0MKQzaEAQYDCABEgKWIfD_BwE Which is currently installed Can be swapped out for the 588 without issues. You can check out Rock Auto's website and see the kinda fuel pump(s) that will fit your car. They are pretty good about that, Joe Lee 1 Quote
50mech Posted February 27, 2020 Author Report Posted February 27, 2020 I usually do. In this case they list the 588 type as fitting all except models equipped with double actions. I was betting the single would work but sometimes they'll surprise you, figured best to ask the experts here. Quote
_shel_ny Posted February 28, 2020 Report Posted February 28, 2020 5 hours ago, 50mech said: I usually do. In this case they list the 588 type as fitting all except models equipped with double actions. I was betting the single would work but sometimes they'll surprise you, figured best to ask the experts here. You have the same camshaft as any other engine. The 588 will work, as will any other pump listed for that size engine. 1 Quote
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