2001 Dodge Ram 2500 Random ABS Warning Light, Slow Brake Pedal Return, and Brakes Not Releasing

[JBNeal]

2019 was a very challenging year, in many ways.  One of the most exasperating issues I had to deal with was the brakes on the QuadCab.  A random ABS warning light was first noticed while borrowing this truck for a few weeks in 2015, but once I started driving the truck regularly in late 2018, the ABS light became more frequent and longer lasting.  The truck passed the annual safety inspection in February as the ABS light did not come on during road testing, but by late March, the ABS light became a daily occurrence.  It was about this time that a heavy trailer was pulled that required setting the trailer brake controller, and while pulling this trailer through stop-n-go traffic, a delayed release in trailer brakes was felt in the truck and observed on the controller.  In April, the original master cylinder began leaking internally, and its defective replacement started an almost weekly trip to local parts stores, dealing with even more defective remanufactured parts.

 

Replacement Remanufactured Component Defects Observed

• Master Cylinder:  Original unit began leaking internally at 200k.  OR replacement unit had a spongy pedal that could not be corrected after 20 bleeding attempts over 4 weeks and was replaced under warranty.
• HydroBoost:  Original unit began leaking PS fluid into cab at 170k; OR replacement worked up to about 200k.  OR units 2-6 would fail pressure test after bleeding, causing brake pedal to not spring back after being released.  AA replacement delivered was wrong application; followup delivered replacement had Schrader valve installed to psi canister and was returned.  AZ unit lasted for 4 months with gradually degrading performance until ultimately failing by not releasing brakes after hard braking, hissing loudly under dash, then releasing brakes.   Pedal return travel would take 3-10 seconds; ABS warning light would illuminate.  NAPA replacement worked immediately, and in sub-freezing weather.
• Steering Gearboxes:  Original unit began having choppy operation around 204k.  AA replacement had a mounting lug that stripped on final torque.  Replacement unit delivered had damaged input shaft and was returned.  Followup replacement unit delivered had damaged output shaft seal and was returned.  Second followup replacement unit delivered had slightly damaged output shaft that was corrected with careful filing.
• Front Calipers:  Original RF caliper not retracting fully, LF dragging at 206k.  AA replacement units had loose bushings; NAPA LF replacement worked; RF replacement leaked at bleeder screw and was replaced under warranty.
• Rear Calipers:  Original calipers dragging at 206k.  AA (2), OR (2) & AZ (4) replacement units had very loose bushings; AA RR casting cracked at bleeder screw; OR RR casting leaked at hose; NAPA RR replacement leaked at bleeder screw and was replaced under warranty.

 

Remanufactured Caliper Failure Summary

The BR-series 2500 HD brake calipers are a floating caliper design, with bushings bolted to the caliper adapter that is bolted to the spindles up front and Dana 80 axle in the rear.  The caliper has a rubber boot that encapsulates the bushing, requiring a rubber-compatible lubricant to be applied inside the boot and onto the bushing mounting bolts.  This style of 4-wheel disc brake system was used from late 1998 through early 2004; subsequent brake systems grew in size to match growing rim sizes.  Earlier disc/drum combination systems used similar components, but certain components (such as hydroboost, prop.valve, and ABS HCU) are not really compatible.

 

Remanufactured calipers varied in quality, with evidence of pitting and scarring on pistons.  Advance Auto and O’Reilly calipers were packaged in the same box, with the only difference in labeling of Wearever and Brake Best.  AutoZone calipers (with and without brackets) were packaged slightly different, but of similar quality.  None of these castings had any coatings, so clean grey castings at the store quickly rusted in the humid TX air.

 

Bushings were visibly wobbly in their bores, suggesting that the castings had too much material removed during core cleanup.  This could lead to the caliper not aligning properly on the bracket, causing a ratcheting action during brake release.  Similarly, excessive boring could be causing pistons to wedge themselves in their bores during brake release.  This was somewhat confirmed during caliper removal after road testing, when pistons were difficult to compress in their bores, then suddenly compressed smoothly.  The cumulative effect was rear brakes that would not release after braking downhill in reverse without having to throttle-rock the truck.  Also, an ABS warning light would illuminate when one of the sticking pistons would fully release at random times (sometimes while flying down the highway), causing a pressure spike at the ABS pressure sensor in the proportioning valve.

 

By contrast, NAPA bracketed calipers had much cleaner, blemish-free pistons, and the bushings moved smoothly in their bores with practically no play observed.  Castings had been painted black, so they would not rust right away like the unpainted Advance Auto, O’Reilly and AutoZone units.  Cost was about 10% more than the competitors’ defective units that were all returned under warranty.  NAPA calipers were not perfect, however, as a RF and a RR caliper were found to be seeping at the bleeder screws.  Replacement units ordered seemed to be working as required.

 

The irony here is that all units were found to be remanufactured by Cardone.  The NAPA units had documentation from Cardone, whereas the associates at the other stores said that the units were rebuilt by Cardone and information on the internet seemed to confirm this.

 

I did not attempt to measure any IDs or ODs as I had no specifications to measure against and I was trying to make repairs quickly as this was the only vehicle I had available for 2019.  With the exception of the 4 caliper castings that leaked, all calipers worked well during brake application but not during brake release.  Since the brakes need to be cycled rapidly for the ABS to work, the poor brake release would register as a pressure fluctuation outside of accepted parameters and set a fault code in the ABS module, which would cause the random ABS warning light.  This failure mode is not directly outlined in the factory shop manual, but several symptoms of poor brake release are outlined as failure modes of other components, such as the ABS wheel sensors, the HydroBoost assembly, brake hoses, even the power steering pump and hoses.

 

Root Cause Analysis

This truck was driven and maintained regularly for its first 150k miles, then effectively parked in a barn for 10 years, driven occasionally to perform short-trip chores.  Even though the brake system still functioned as needed, the gradual performance degradation went unnoticed as the truck was driven so infrequently and still passed annual safety inspections.  But the random ABS warning light that started in 2015 became a daily occurrence as the truck began being driven daily in 2019.  Each month, a new symptom would crop up, and consulting the FSM would yield a different repair for each symptom.

 

As more original components had been replaced, I noticed a paragraph in the FSM that covered quality of brake fluid in the ABS.  Aging brake fluid begins to break down rubber components in the ABS, turning the brake fluid practically black as the rubber debris saturates the fluid.  This causes brake hoses to weaken and seals to break down.  The FSM recommends replacement of ALL components that have any rubber when the system becomes contaminated, which is everything in the brake system except the hard lines and ABS control module.  Reviewing this truck’s service records, the brake fluid had not been flushed in over 10 years, so that old dark brake fluid finally caused the whole brake system to bite the dust.

 

Total brake overhaul time probably should take less than 40 hours, but chasing phantom symptoms and dealing with defective parts caused me to spend 155 hours overhauling the system.  Countless hours of research were spent trying to solve this random ABS warning light problem by studying the FSM and doing research online, as well as all of the time spent dealing with defect returns.

 

Back on Track

After months of second-guessing and setbacks, gallons of brake fluid and power steering fluid (bought 32 ounces at a time), 3 ruined tires, 3 mildly flat-spotted tires, and way too much time spent reading about similar (but not the same) problems on various Dodge Ram 2nd Gen online forums, I finally got the brakes to function as they should, without leaks and with a firm and responsive brake pedal.  This work was completed during unseasonal near-80° February weather, the day before a sub-freezing cold snap blew into the area.  Test driving in the cold weather showed the brake pedal returned just as fast as it did in balmy weather.  I could even tap the brake pedal rapidly to make the brake lights flash to alert following drivers, something I had not been able to do for years, which I had just chalked up to “oh it’s an old truck, it just doesn’t work that way I guess”.  So the next day, I headed to the inspection station and the truck passed…a HUGE relief…

 

I learned that aging ABS components have to be kept in tip-top shape in order to work properly.  Just because the brakes “work” doesn’t mean they are working as they should…hence the random ABS warning light.  Flushing the brake fluid periodically is paramount; deferring this maintenance can be an expensive headache in the long run.  But above all, knowing how systems work can help determine what problems need to be addressed, especially if defective replacement parts are thrown into the mix.  This requires patience and perseverance, much the same as with a decades-old buggy.  As I told several of the auto parts store associates, I’m accustomed to ordering stuff and waiting a few days before I can do the repair…each different associate would look at me with some surprise at my statement, apparently patience is something they don’t see much these days in our everything-is-on-my-smart-phone society.

 

Another issue of note is brake caliper lubrication.  Sil-Glyde is a silicone lubricant that is recommended for all brake components, including the rubber boots that encase the slide pin bushings.  Permatex Disc Brake Lubricant specifically mentions that it is only to be used on metal-to-metal applications.  Internet research found that several other disc brake lubricants that did not specify if they could be used on rubber components would actually cause rubber to swell, causing binding of the caliper on the slide pins.  Oddly enough, Permatex and Raybestos training videos do not mention this issue, but Wagner does differentiate between metal-to-metal and metal-to-rubber lubricants.  Following their instructions, the NAPA caliper bushings were lubricated, as well as the brackets for the spring clips, the contact points of the brake pads to the spring clips, and the brake pad back plates where they contacted the calipers.  Most of these areas see very little movement, if any, but presumably the lubricant is to displace moisture to reduce metal oxidation at contact points, which degrades brake performance over time.

 

I do not think I could have tackled this complicated brake problem on a truck that is 6 years shy from being classified as a Classic by TX DMV if I had not run into similar hard-to-diagnose problems on much older machines.  As with most multi-component systems, each component has a certain operating envelope it can function within for the system to be robust.  When multiple components operate outside their respective envelopes, diagnosing the problem area can be difficult as the phantom symptoms produced confuse the issue.

 

The toughest issue to deal with was the defective remanufactured parts, as reman’d parts seemed to be the best available cost-effective means to deal with the declining brake performance.  When buying these reman’d parts, the assumption is that they have been sold as meeting specifications required.  Since these specifications are not available to the general public, trial-and-error was used to determine which parts were actually as advertised.  And even then, it is assumed that this will be sufficient as the system is operating apparently as required, but not known entirely for sure if it is or not.

 

So I reckon if that barn find has been parked for 10 years or 50 years, ya need to check them brakes and plan on just changing everything out, maybe even the hard lines…otherwise, you’re gonna spend a TON of time chasing down problems piecemeal and spend a fortune doing it…ain’t nobody got time for that

[JBNeal]

After 10 days of no incidents, I had 2 consecutive days where the ABS warning light came on: once in stop'n'go traffic, the other while backing downgrade.  The light would shut off after parking the truck for a few minutes then starting back up for another errand run.  With all of my blahblahblah I forgot to mention something that I noticed that I had not read about anywhere.  Whenever my ABS warning light would come on, there would be brake fluid on the inside of the rubber cap on the proportional valve.  When I had my original sticking calipers, this rubber cap would have brake fluid seeping out from the cap, running down the prop.valve.  When I replaced my originals with defective replacements, there was fluid all under the cap but no longer running down the valve.  And with these better performing calipers, the cap stayed dry until the ABS light came on, but only left a dot of brake fluid on the cap.  My guess was that the hydroboost drawing back on the master cylinder causes fluid flow to escape through the prop.valve relief port when the port cracks open due to the calipers retracting too slow.  My belief is that these new functioning calipers need the new to wear off of them before they operate smoothly enough to not cause this pressure spike at the prop.valve. Stay tuned...

Edited November 14, 2020 by JBNeal
corrected distracting fonts

[JBNeal]

QuadCab brakes seem to be working OK but the ABS warning light still appears to come on at random times.    The brake fluid on the proportioning valve rubber cap doesn't seem to get larger than the tip of a fat ballpoint pen, and instead of looking wet, it just looks like a witness mark.  This tells me that whatever part that is sticking enough to cause a pressure spike isn't sticking for very long, and much less than 3 months ago, and that's a good thing...I've been stewing on this for weeks, and tried something new a few weeks ago.  In order to wear in the rear calipers a little faster, I have started to jam on the brakes whenever I am going in reverse on dry pavement...can't do that effectively on the gravel surfaces on most of the roads I drive on though...this seems to keep the ABS warning light off for a few days of driving around on loose surfaces...onward and upwards

[Ulu]

Thank you for all of this. And for reminding me to get out and change my brake fluid.

 

I have not read all of your exploits but at some point did you not replace the proportioning valve?It seems like a sticky proportioning valve could cause poor brake action.

 

I gave up on buying rebuilt parts back in the 1970s because they were getting horrible back then here in the west.

 

I think that’s because what we were getting were 200k+ rebuilt cores from worn Mexican vehicles, that had been already rebuilt once in Mexico when they came from the United States with 80,000 miles.

 

I remember one fiasco where I went through 5 different Ford 289 starters from Kragan auto. Eventually I decided anything I could not rebuild myself I would have to buy new.

 

Then I started working on the P15 and realized that the OEM parts for that car which had been sitting on the shelf decades were much better than Ford & GM parts from the 70s which I had been buying.

 

As an aside, virtually everyone who buys a Toyota Tacoma thinks within the first few days that they have been rear ended in traffic. The powertrain on that truck is very light, and so when the huge air conditioner clutch kicks in the whole truck jumps a little bit like you’ve been bumped on the rear bumper.

 

The engine is slightly increasing the idle speed at the same instant it kicks in that clutch, just so the engine doesn’t stall at its normal very low idle. Instead the truck seems to jump forward on the suspension but does not slip the brakes.

 

But exactly how hard that he feels will depend on the exact condition of idle speed as your truck is decelerating to a stop. This of course changes on whether the weather is hot or cold and whether the engine is hot or cold and so you could have many different conditions and drive the truck for quite a while before this happens to you.When I sold the 2009 and bought the 2012 I thought they had fixed the problem bit but it still happens on occasion.

 

I think that the 2012 truck is just a little heavier and you don’t notice it as much.

 

So why do I bring this all up in a thread about brakes?

 

It never snows here but people who live in icy conditions have reported that when this happens as the truck is engaging and disengaging it’s AC clutch in defroster mode, that your brakes can lock up on the ice when you do not expect it.

 

This was reported to cause several accidents in very slow down hill conditions when people should normally have been able to stop. In the middle of their stop the braking action would change because of the change in engine RPM, Initiating a skid.

 

BMW motorcycles also had a big problem with anti-lock disk brake systems on motorcycles, were if you were coming to a stop at even moderate to slow speeds, and your rear wheel went over a sharp dip in the pavement like the edge of two slabs that did not quite meet level, the antilock brakes would release pressure thinking you had reached the lock up condition.

 

Having them release and actuate rapidly like that on the margin of some greasy gas station pavement was nearly the bane of a couple BMW‘ers who ended up smacking into gas pump islands.

Of course this had to happen about 10 times before BMW quit blaming the riders and changed their program.

[JBNeal]

I sourced a new Mopar prop.valve from eBay and swapped out the original after replacing the original calipers...that's about when I noticed the brake fluid on the rubber cap during one of the many system bleeding exercises.  I thought for sure the original was sticking, but it was clear afterwards that the calipers were the issue as the brake fluid amount on the rubber cap was unchanged.  I believe that the brake pressure variation within the system is right at the threshold for triggering the ABS warning light, and the variation is significantly less than it was 3 months ago with the reduction of brake fluid on the prop.valve rubber cap.  From what I've read, the prop.valve sensor triggers an idiot light and doesn't reset until after the ECM is powered down then reenergized, with a few other operational criteria referenced before lighting up again.  Since my trailer brake controller has a LED that instantaneously shows when the brake lights are on, I can double check to see if the brakes are dragging again...so far, that's checking out, even when pulling a heavy trailer...

[JBNeal]

Most of late September and October was free of warning lights, so I thought I had turned a corner on this long journey of problem solving. In that time, I took 6 road trips in excess of 2 hrs each, having only taken 2 long trips the previous 8 months. Then we had a 3 day cold spell dipping into the 30s, the power steering pump groaned one afternoon, and the warning lights were back, on all the time. Occasionally, the steering wheel would grab at startup, and groaning became constant as the weather warmed back up. So I extracted the fluid from the power steering pump reservoir and it was dark, only able to see the amber fluid color at the perimeter of the clear plastic jar. I was stumped as to how dirty that fluid had gotten in less than 10k miles, since the entire power steering system had been replaced and flushed.

 

So I replaced the extracted fluid with nearly a pint of Lucas Oil ps fluid with conditioners, which is about half of the ps system capacity. I figured that fluid swap was worth a try, as it only took 15 minutes, compared to another flushing extravaganza, which takes upwards of 4 hrs (including cleanup). Within a week, I had about 200 miles on that fluid, and as advertised, the pump stopped groaning, and the warning lights became more infrequent and random, not having illuminated in the last 50 miles.

 

The proportional valve rubber cap is still dry, and no leaks on the brake lines or fittings, so it's looking more like the ABS problem has shifted from brake fluid contamination to power steering fluid contamination...whoduh thunk it

[JBNeal]

This spring and summer have been unseasonably wet, so I've had to deal with a lot of slick conditions on paved and unpaved surfaces.  This has led to a lot of ABS + BRAKE lights, for days at a time.  As summer has begun to dry out a little, I've realized several conditions that occur to trigger these warning lights:

• parking on sloped surfaces, with or without setting the park brake
• driving on loose or slick unpaved surfaces
• pulling a trailer without trailer brakes

whenever I've driven on a dry paved road in stop and go traffic after the warning lights have been on, the lights will shut off.  I've swapped PS pump fluid when the groaning started again, which was after 5k, so that interval has lengthened a tad since the first change went 3k .  This ongoing issue still makes me think that I need to be driving the truck more to wear in the remanufactured calipers as the stop and go traffic apparently unsticks whatever is sticking that is causing the pressure spike that is setting the warning lights, as no brake fluid has been seen on the proportioning valve rubber cap in months.  But my schedule these days has me driving slow in rural areas then driving on the highway for less than an hour, so the brakes don't really get a workout like when I've driven in traffic.  So I reckon I'll just keep managing the situation and force myself to drive into town for some DQ once a week so the truck brakes will work

[Sniper]

My SIL's GMC had a random ABS light come on occasionally.  Shortly before he deployed his cat plugged up, so he cut it out, knocked out the guts and put it back together, sort of, it was loud.  Mostly this was done just because he was due to deploy in 2 weeks and didn't have time to deal with it.  Heck, at first he thought it was a rod knock till I went up to Abilene and looked at it for him.  Nope, just loose crap in the cat.  Anyway, while he was deployed my daughter and I bought parts to fix his truck, a new cat Y pipe was one of those things, I forget what else we need to do.

 

Once he got back, he brought his truck down here and we went to work on it.  Once we got the job done we took it for a drive and wow did it have a bad wheel bearing.  Couldn't hear it over the loud exhaust till we replaced that Y pipe and it got quiet again.  Went and bought two new front wheel bearing assemblies.  Once those went it it was now nice a quiet and during the test drive he mentioned "Hey, my ABS light is out"  Turns out in this case the sensor is part of the bearing assembly and with the bearing going bad the sensor was giving random erroneous signals the computer interpreted as an ABS problem.

 

Guess that is my long winded way of asking, how are your wheel bearings (ABS sensors)?

 

[JBNeal]

New hub assemblies up front, rear wheel bearings are tight and show no signs of abnormal wear at the wheel seals; abs sensors were all replaced at the same time.  What gets lost in the odyssey of vague symptoms and defective replacement parts is the discovery of the brake fluid on the proportional valve rubber cap.  This indicated that the prop.valve spring-loaded bleed valve was opening and closing, which could only happen if there was a vacuum on the inside of the bleeder that was strong enough to overcome the spring force keeping that bleeder closed.  With all of the defective calipers that had sloppy slide pins, that cap had anywhere from a dot of brake fluid to a mess that ran down the side of the prop.valve, caused by the calipers apparently ratcheting instead of sliding when brakes were disengaged.  Trying the NAPA calipers, the slide pins are nice and tight, but perhaps too tight and could be hanging for a split second when brakes are disengaged, and there has been no brake fluid on the cap but maybe a shadow indicating the cap being in contact with a very small amount of brake fluid.  With the combination of symptoms during certain conditions, I'm thinking the rear calipers are causing the momentary pressure spike that is setting the ABS light.  The stop and go traffic workout on dry pavement gets the calipers moving properly, possibly cleaning off some debris in the slide pin bore in the caliper casting.  Part of me wants to pull the calipers and hone out the slide pin bores to put an end to this frustration, but if I go overboard just a tad, then the slide pins would be too sloppy in their bores and I'm right back to square one.  So I'll keep driving it, hoping to wear in these calipers sooner than later, hopefully not flat-spotting my 4 new tires in the process

[Sniper]

While I don't know specifically about  the 2001 Ram 2500 system, I don't know of any other brake system where having brake fluid escape the prop valve is not considered a failure of that valve.  Sounds to me like your prop valve needs repair.

 

The FSM goes into some pretty good description of how each section of that valve works.  For that particular stem, this is what is says.

 

(3) Pressure Bleed. This method of bleeding is
influenced by the metering valve. Bleed pressure,
which is normally about 35 psi, is high enough to
cause the metering valve to close, stopping the flow of
fluid to the front brakes. However, the valve (Fig.
17) can be held open manually by using Tool C¯4I2I,
to pull the valve stem out.
 

And that is the function of that stem. 

[JBNeal]

additional information - prop.valve replacement

[Sniper]

You just reiterated this thread.

 

That "spring loaded valve" is nothing more than a hold off.  It keeps pressure off the discs until rear pressure builds high enough to move the shoes.  It's designed to apply the pads and shoes at the same time.  there should never be a vacuum in there and if it's is leaking it is bad.

 

So I am not understanding what you are trying to say about it.

[JBNeal]

That link to a previous post clearly describes the replacement of the prop.valve and how it performed compared to the original, which explains why that component does not require attention due to a fault but moreover explains how it may be an indicator of a problem elsewhere.  You are not comprehending the bleed valve that is present that I have described at length, and how it is opening due to a vacuum being generated, its duration very brief, from the master cylinder return spring pushing the master cylinder piston which is drawing fluid from the brake lines and caliper piston bores...if the rear caliper pistons are not moving at the same rate as the front pistons, a vacuum forms at the prop.valve bleed valve that is stronger than the internal spring that keeps it closed, causing the bleed valve to crack open, allowing the vacuum to escape to atmosphere along with some brake fluid when the rear caliper pistons move abruptly at this system opening.  The rear calipers have been a suspect area from the get-go as they do not see the loading that the front calipers do, and a variety of symptoms have been posted when the truck would be backed downgrade, which shifts braking bias in the prop.valve.

 

Bottom line is that the ABS warning light indicates that the ABS controller has been switched off because a pressure spike has been detected that is in excess of what has been programmed as acceptable for reliable ABS performance.  The intermittent nature of this fault tells me that this pressure spike just might be at the threshold of what has been programmed with the replacement parts that are in place...with the slew of symptoms observed prior to the current brake system components installed, there was a combination of problems occurring that were being caused by several faulty components, with the ABS sensors replaced 1st even though they turned out to not be faulty.  Throw in the hydroboost system and a sticking directional valve in the multiple steering gearboxes to complicate things further as this has been documented as causing the ABS light as well.  No one component has been the problem, but multiple components operating just at or under the threshold of acceptable performance have been problematic since the power brakes and power steering are linked together with the Dodge Cummins setup.

[JBNeal]

The annoying saga continues...

 

The ABS warning lights have been on almost non-stop since late spring when the ambient heat started to build for the summer.  As fall has commenced, the temperatures have started to drop, and for several trips, the warning lights were off for the first few miles.  It has been raining since early this morning when a cold front slid through the area, dropping afternoon temps from near 90°F to under 60°F.  I needed to travel two counties over to see a man about a horse, close to 200 miles round trip through steady rain, and the warning lights stayed off the entire way...a very welcome sight indeed, as there were 2 instances where I needed to hop on the brakes to avoid other drivers who attempted to hydroplane on the lumpy rural highway, and I heard the ABS kick in for about a second each time.

 

This verifies what I've been thinking for the last 2 years:  whatever is triggering the warning lights (which I think is a combination of components), it is right at the threshold for acceptable performance of the ABS, so it's kind of a programming issue with the ABS controller but also replacement parts that are not to the original manufacturer's specifications.  When ambient temperatures are below 60°F, the ABS works fine in all conditions; above 60°F, and something(s) sticks, causing the brake fluid pressure spike that triggers the ABS controller to turn off as it thinks there is a hardware malfunction.  My guess is that the rear calipers are sticking a bit, as well as the steering gearbox shuttle valve is also a little off, and the combination of this tolerance stack is causing this headache.

 

If this truck was worked hard everyday, the problem might have taken care of itself months ago with sticking parts wearing in, and the risk of flatspotting tires would have gone away, too.  But this truck is primarily a short distance commuter that does the occasional heavy lifting, which is contributing to the lingering safety equipment issue.  So I reckon I'm stuck with this problem (pardon the pun) until my current situation changes significantly...until then, I've gotten decent at pumping the brakes during emergency maneuvers again, something I had to learn how to do before ABS was standard equipment...good times ??

[JBNeal]

Last week, I had the QuadCab tires serviced, and with the wheels pulled off, I took a look at the brake pads, and was disappointed to see the wear on the driver side front pads through the caliper windows.  A few days ago, I pulled the calipers off to get the front rotors surfaced, and verified that the driver caliper pistons were the culprit as the inside  pad was worn out after 25k while the outside pad was barely worn; the passenger front pads were virtually equally worn, and about half used up.  I also found the driver hub assembly had purged a good bit of grease, and was quite a bit more difficult to rotate than the passenger hub assembly.  At first I was very disappointed by this, but dug up my receipts and verified that the warranty for that hub expires at the end of this month, so I was able to get a new replacement hub assembly at no charge...dodged a $300 bullet there.

 

I went ahead and pulled the rear calipers off to clean and lubricate the friction mounting points on the pads and caliper housings with Sil-Glyde as I had done with the fronts.  With everything put back together and pressure bled, the test drives while running errands were not as successful as what I had hoped, as the ABS light was back on intermittently instead of all of the time while ambient temperatures were in the 70s.  When the temps dropped to the 50s-60s the next day, the ABS light was on intermittently albeit for much less duration.  With the ABS light off, emergency braking worked well and did not trigger the ABS light, so that's nice.

 

I am hoping that the brake issues are winding down, with this last caliper sticking because it's a little tight and will wear in sooner than later.  Winter and most of spring will be in the rearview mirror In 6 months, and I'll check the system out again.  In the meantime, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there will be no incidents with this ol' buggy.  After installing 17 calipers, 8 hydroboost units, 2 master cylinders, 2 power steering pumps, and 2 steering gearboxes, I've had enough practice overhauling these brakes...spending all this time doing the same procedures over and over has been a real drag 

[Merle Coggins]

My previous daily driver, F150, would eat through the outer pad on the left front for no apparent reason. I even replaced the caliper and it would still do it. I would go through 2 or 3 outer pads before the rest would need to be replaced. I never figured out why it did that. Then that truck got wrecked last summer and I got a new truck... Problem gone... 

[JBNeal]

It has been a long three years of exasperation and discovery, but after 2 master cylinders, 10 hydroboost units, 4 power steering pumps, 2 steering gearboxes, 7 brake hoses, 17 brake calipers, 4 hub assemblies, 4 wheel speed sensors, a proportional valve, a salvaged hydraulic control unit, and a refurbished ABS control module, the QuadCab has taken several test drives in 70°F+ weather without any ABS warning lights.  The brakes are not perfect yet, as the ABS light came on during a short drive, but that was coupled with a momentary herky-jerky movement in the steering wheel, which might be air in the hydraulics after hydroboost #10 was installed.  This underscores the balancing act of the power steering and power brakes needing to be kept in good working order with quality components so that both aging systems can function properly.

 

As cooler weather had arrived, it became apparent that the power steering pump was groaning almost non-stop, so I opted to replace it under warranty.  Pump #3 was short-lived, as it blew out on a trip back from Waco, leaving remaining power steering fluid with a burnt odor.  Once pump #4 was installed and system flushed, hydroboost #8 began to fail, presumably from the burnt fluid degrading seals.  Hydroboost #9 lasted about a week and began to have issues, and upon removal, it was clear that the input shaft seal had started leaking.  Hydroboost #10 seems OK but the brake pedal does not snap back after being released, which it was able to do the first few test drives, with pedal return taking about a second to complete; #9 was taking almost 2 seconds to return after release.

 

I was still getting the ABS warning light, so eventually I found a mechanic that actually knew how to work on this truck, as the local dealership and 2 prominent repair facilities basically shrugged in ignorance of such obsolete technology.  We spitballed ideas on how to deal with the odd readings he was getting on his scanner, especially while taking a half-hour test drive.  I mentioned to him that both front hubs have been replaced twice, as dragging replacement calipers were heating up the hub sealed bearings to the point of cooking the grease that would purge out, making them difficult to rotate by hand, and that this high heat could possibly have fried the wheel sensors I replaced in 2018.  This possibly explained some of the live data readings, but the storing and clearing of default codes by the ABS module was confounding as neither of us had seen this before.  I surmised that the module had bad components that were leading to this erratic behavior, so I found a nearby outfit that could refurbish the module.  With the refurbished module installed, no codes were stored on the first three test drives.

 

About 40 hours of work have been done on this ol' buggy in the last 4 weeks...that puts the tally to well over 200 hours work in the last 3 years, with less than 50 hrs being to replace components, and the remainder to replace defective components under warranty.  That's a LOT of time spent doing the same tasks repeatedly, while other projects have been put on hold.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I have done enough work to get this to pass inspection in February and to have a functional ABS for the remainder of my usage of this machine...had a close call with a UPS truck the other day, which underscores the lurking risk of getting T-boned by an uninsured motorist

[Sniper]

Way to keep at it, here's hoping you got it sorted out

[oldodge41]

You are a patient man. I have replaced many vehicles with much less aggravating issues very quickly. I can and do respect your perseverance. Hopefully you are good for a long time this time.

[wagoneer]

200 hours! The scarier number is the costs for those pieces of equipment and the shear number of failures for aftermarket parts. Looking at autotrader prices, a 2001 quad cab still goes for 19000, which is probably why all the fuss and not just get another.

 

 

 

[JBNeal]

The multiple repetitive replacements were covered under warranty, except for the wheel sensors, but fluids for flushing and bleeding added up...I think I went through over 10 gallons of power steering fluid and over 5 gallons of brake fluid, and that adds up...all that time spinning my wheels I'll never get back, but now I can get on the pile of work that has been on hold and drive down the road without worrying about ruining any more tires...just this morning, I had to get on them brakes when a suicidal squirrel ran out in front of the truck while trying to zip out of town, and there were no casualties, rodent nor radial ?

[wagoneer]

@JBNeal with so many repeated failures of third party replacements, did you consider going OEM ? Your tale has convinced me that OEM is still the best way to go for critical parts. You should seriously complain in writing to those manufacturers and the store you bought them from — basically EVERY part you bought came already failed. That’s the tragic part. 
 

You are patient and persistent beyond belief! This should have been solved two years ago using quality parts. Between all this time working on your classic dodge trucks, I can’t imagine what your wife must think?!

 

Actually, I know,because I hear it on my end quite a bit. ? 

Edited December 21, 2021 by wagoneer

[Dodgeb4ya]

I think I would have converted it to good old standard four wheel drum brakes!?

 

[JBNeal]

I found out years ago that manufacturers are not really interested in supporting trucks that are going on 20 yrs old...their commercials say "most reliable" and "durable", but when attempting to order certain critical parts, the parts desk will say "on back order" or "no longer available" and they'll suggest going the aftermarket route while holding the door open for me ...

 

Cardone has command of brake part remanufacturing, and their quality control shows with their indifference to working specifications from lack of competition.  NAPA parts were the best of the Cardone lot, but not by much...Autozone calipers were so bad, I didn't even leave the store with them; Advance Auto hydroboost units were pathetic:  leaky, missing brackets, and one replacement that took a week to show up was a misboxed older hydroboost that did not fit

 

I was very tempted to circumvent the ABS to pass inspection last year, but if I got caught, I would have to get it fixed anyway.  So I kept at it...and this truck has great utility that is lacking in the bloated overpriced curb-destroying gigantaurs that race from stop light to stop light...kinda hard to want to give up on a truck that is easy to get in and out of, has great visibility in all directions (the wireless backup camera comes in handy for hitching up to trailers), and bedsides that can be reached over without the need of a step ladder.  I have a few elderly neighbors with Ram 1500s, and their biggest gripe is trying to get into those buggies, and they have bounced off a few curbs because they cannot see over the nose...a couple have srsly offered even trade for this ride, one being a Laramie Longhorn with air conditioned seats ?

[JBNeal]

On 2/8/2020 at 2:32 AM, JBNeal said:

...This truck was driven and maintained regularly for its first 150k miles, then effectively parked in a barn for 10 years, driven occasionally to perform short-trip chores.  Even though the brake system still functioned as needed, the gradual performance degradation went unnoticed as the truck was driven so infrequently and still passed annual safety inspections...

 

Another subtle problem this old buggy had was sluggish highway speeds, with top speeds in the upper 70s but screaming at doing that, with plenty of planning required to safely pass on a 2-lane highway.  I just figured it was a consequence of the Torque Flite HD aging and lived with it.  The QuadCab has been the weekend ride since mid-22 when my career change included a majority highway 65-mile commute...that is, until this past April, due to a clerical error at the county registrar that put the Laramie in Park until legal ownership was settled for the next 6 weeks.

 

So the QuadCab came out of semi-retirement to make the trek to Austin as it had done almost 22yrs ago, except this time I self-governed the highway miles to 70mph, watching the lead foots fly by in the morning darkness and afternoon heat.  Somewhere around the 2k mile mark, I began to notice a change in performance, as I was having to ride the brake while maneuvering in parking lots, then noticed that backing up grades required no throttle input.  Then one morning, some dawdling dippity-do that I had been gaining on for several miles in the slow lane decided that he wanted to race when I pulled even alongside as we began ascending a long grade, so I put my right foot into it to put some distance between us...when I looked at the speedo maybe 5 seconds later, it read 95mph and that clunker f150 was waaay back behind, with that QuadCab running smooth and effortlessly... !

 

My theory is that all those years of parked in the barn not only ruined the ABS but gummed up the transmission.  After a few thousand miles of daily highway speeds, generating heat and continuous fluid pressure, mixed with some stop-n-go shifting to redirect flow to certain circuits, the varnish broke loose and collected in the filter, allowing the transmission to work more efficiently.  75mph averaged 19mpg highway, 70mph averaged 22mpg, slightly better than before coming out of semi-retirement, but throttle response is much improved, and the truck is quite nimble nowadays.  I have also been hauling 300gal totes from the well at the bottom of the hill up to the house to water drought-stressed landscaping this summer...that's over a ton over the rear axle, with the truck immediately rolling fwd once loaded and put into gear, and it takes little throttle to motivate that load up the hill.

 

I am thinking that with the brakes and transmission now operating as designed, the QuadCab is running better now than in the last 15yrs...SCORE ?